Author Topic: Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore  (Read 201 times)

Xepera maSet

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Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore
« on: November 02, 2018, 08:12:32 pm »
http://www.churchofsatan.com/the-rise-of-the-satanic-unease-by-magus-peter-h-gilmore/

Tldr:

Waaaah we're the only Satanists! Why does nobody understand how cool and chill we are? Why can't we just be accepted?! We're such victims!!!! Modern horror is literally all to make fun of CoS!!!

"The Dragon became as a many-headed Serpent,
It's fiery tongues bearing forth speech
Into all the kingoms of the Earth."


My book, "Behold: the Prince of Darkness!": https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1726037460/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1726037460

Etu Malku

Re: Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2018, 10:26:21 pm »
In some ways I feel sorry for the CoS, they had an opportunity to go in the direction of a ToS and be taken very siriusly, but instead, they became petulant drama-queens.
IAMTHATIAMNOT

No(par)king

Re: Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2018, 12:58:00 am »
Seeing the COS even getting close to playing a victim card makes me shake my head. What happened to not needing good guy badges? I guess with an operation formed to be like custard nailed to the wall on occasion is bound to stumble over its own ideals.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 01:05:00 am by No(par)king »

idgo

Re: Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2018, 06:35:06 am »
Well yes, groups change as they age. How can anything which alters itself in response to its environment do otherwise? When an underdog wins too many times, it's not an underdog any more. When a rebellious uprising attains its goals, it becomes the new regime, and is subject to all the influences that molded the old regime it overthrew.

And what happens to the rebels that don't win? Perhaps they give up. Perhaps they repeat the same strategies robotically and idiotically, over and over, hoping maybe this time an identical stimulus will elicit a different response. More often, they recognize the ineffectiveness of an old technique for their ends, and try another and another, onwards till something works.

Regardless of whether you model the CoS as having "won" or "lost" in its younger years, it seems to have situated itself in a role where it's almost inevitably forced to change over time -- and, in changing, it becomes less and less like how it started out. The CoS looks to me like a program which, if run for an unboundedly long time, will iterate over more techniques and ideologies than it's even scratched the surface of so far.

W_Adam_Smythe

Re: Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2018, 02:04:22 am »
I saw that.

As Anton LaVey once observed, when someone takes themselves too seriously, there is little room for anyone to take them serious at all.

Then, on the other side of that we have their nemesis group The Satanic Temple contemplating suing Netflix:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/satanic-temple-is-threatening-to-sue-netflix-2018-11-02

So for all of the public fighting between the groups it is looking more and more like they are opposite horns on the same goat. ;)

Kapalika

Re: Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2018, 05:35:42 am »
I saw that.

As Anton LaVey once observed, when someone takes themselves too seriously, there is little room for anyone to take them serious at all.

Then, on the other side of that we have their nemesis group The Satanic Temple contemplating suing Netflix:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/satanic-temple-is-threatening-to-sue-netflix-2018-11-02

So for all of the public fighting between the groups it is looking more and more like they are opposite horns on the same goat. ;)


It's worth noting that they may actually have a case, if the statue used in the show resembles their version enough (with the children, how it's styled ect). A comparison is  how you can't copyright Bach's work, but you can copyright your own recorded performance of it.


That said I think TST Is more using this as a way to retaliate against using ther design to be associated with SRA moral panic bs, so just speculation but maybe they could more so get ground moved on saying that it will make people associate them with SRA stuff.


So I don't think TST can really be compared to the CoS in this way since TST is actually possibly within their rights and at least trying to do something to combat SRA types of panics (of which we have seen some resurgence of, think Pizza Gate for example).
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Xepera maSet

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Re: Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2018, 01:02:08 pm »
TST is totally in their right, their exact image was stolen.

"The Dragon became as a many-headed Serpent,
It's fiery tongues bearing forth speech
Into all the kingoms of the Earth."


My book, "Behold: the Prince of Darkness!": https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1726037460/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1726037460

W_Adam_Smythe

Re: Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2018, 08:16:58 pm »
I am not so much arguing the legal right of an exact image stolen as I am the principal.

For example, in AHS Anton LaVey and The Chuch of Satan are mentioned by name in reference to an act of human sacrifice. Obviously the CoS cannot claim slander on ASL's name, that would be up to members of his family (I think), but as the  current CEO of the Church of Satan, Gilmore could certainly attempt to make a slander case as the CoS in all of it's years of existence has never condoned such an act.

Will he?

I doubt it. He seems content to bitch and moan on the internet. Though perhaps I am giving him a bit too much credit here, he may also be pragmatic enough to understand that the franchise AHS and the network that distributes it would be able to crush him in terms of legal financing.

Thus far, unless my understanding is incorrect, Lucien Greaves has done little more than threaten a lawsuit and tweeted, none of which seem to be shaking Netflix's tree. Again, were he to be fully pragmatic, it is likely that TST's legal funds would be no match for that of Netflix.

Threatening to or even following through with filing a lawsuit certainly sounds impressive. However, we must also be mindful of the success which ultimately is the deciding factor. For instance, has The Satanic Temple yet to find a permanent home for their Baphomet statue in Oklahoma?

What I do find interesting is that these seemingly warring Satanic groups (TST and CoS) are both complaining about essentially the same thing at the same time and in part over the same fictional show (Gilmore's article also mentions The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina). Also both groups are claiming similar things.

Without, knowing much about Lucien Greaves, I will say that there seems to be a similar trait to Gilmore as well here: The Stick Up Your Ass Syndrome.

With Gilmore, I think that he has disillusioned himself over the years to believing that his mealy mouthed white washing of Satanic concepts along with his pencil pouch demeanor has somehow thrust Satanism into the upper echelons of society. I could be wrong, but I get the impression that to a degree that Greaves feels that because The Satanic Temple has social causes that he also has elevated Satanism into a more accepting role for the masses.

IMO here is where both fall short: Satanism was never intended to be a religion for the masses or one that was to try to prove itself worthy of such an acceptance. Time was that Satanists would be disgusted by such grovelling and pandering.

The other thing that both of these organizations seem to miss is that they are actually promoting these shows more than the other way around. They need these Devil's (shows) far more than these Devil's need them. It is through this prism that one can see a major shift in dynamics. Remember the days that Bob Larson and others invited prominent Satanists on their shows to boost their ratings? They needed those Devils.

Personally, I think that the mass marketing of Satanism has made it both a blessing and a curse by way of mainstream acceptance. As an old timer, my idea of Satanism wasn't to go into a Hot Topic and see the Sigil of Baphomet on t-shirts and such. In that sense I miss the days when we were a bit more feared. On the other hand, when such marketing is prevalent and accepted it is now more easy than ever before for those true Satanists to claim to be nothing more than fans of the genre when confronted. Let them laugh, write it off as fictional shock tactics, and practice privately as always now with an added layer of fictional protection to fall back on.

That's my two or three cents. 

Kapalika

Re: Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2018, 01:07:49 am »
Eh I mean I value not having a lynch mob at my house. I don't think that Satanism is even now something mainstream, and we can know this by seeing the fact that there are still very, very few Satanists.

However it is nice that Hot Topic partnered with BlackCraft Cult, I got a few things from them through them before. I like to see stuff before I buy it and it saves a little bit on shipping.

Most of the fear of Satanism was the idea that we would commit violent acts, people didn't fear us for our theology or magical powers, they never did or at lest most didn't. Most Christians who would fear Satanism fear what we might do to others and believe that it's our magic that's impotent towards Christianity and Christians. Likewise, it's not really what we believe they feared anyway as they were largely unconcerned with that.

So them not fearing us is probably a good thing, I think. It's opened the door (at least for me) to discuss our actual beliefs and practices with Christians hell a month or so ago I discussed my beliefs and practices with a Jehovah's Witness going door to door and it was perfectly civil. Compare to 8 years ago a Fundamentalist preacher went off on me claiming that Satanists killed "thousands" of kids every year.

See, Satanism never really "lost" it's edge, it's probably about the same actually. But ya, when you get down to it a lot of variants just are pretty normal, in a pre-christian way with maybe some acceptance of sexual taboo. But since that too now is more accepted, maybe it's more ordinary. Then again, if I want to shock people I just need to talk about some of the Hindu LHP practices like cannibalism (although I do so with class, of course).

The blood libel towards Satanists is pretty similar to the blood libel that was used against Jews historically. Hell, even the witch with the crooked nose and the pointy hat were both transplants from Jewish depictions.
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Mindmaster

Re: Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2018, 02:22:00 am »
http://www.churchofsatan.com/the-rise-of-the-satanic-unease-by-magus-peter-h-gilmore/

Tldr:

Waaaah we're the only Satanists! Why does nobody understand how cool and chill we are? Why can't we just be accepted?! We're such victims!!!! Modern horror is literally all to make fun of CoS!!!


What he fails to realize is that it simply boils down to a dearth of creativity and reliance on cultural tropes to market and sell anything. Since the predominate culture in America is Judeo-Christian, it's obvious their simply going to make content that plays on the fears and misunderstandings for financial reasons. This is entertainment, after all, and that means fiction is OK.

The real Satanists just don't care if we're accepted or not, but if he cares why hasn't his organization to do a damn thing to change the public views? If he's truly the authority of Satanism why doesn't he act like it? Well, it's simple... He knows he doesn't have that authority, because that authority comes from respect earned by defending it. When, and if, he publicly appears it's always some mealy-mouthed rambling about atheism and how Church of Satan pretends. This type of view, when presented, is just something even the audience can't even respect. He can't change a single heart or mind because he's got all the impact of a wet noodle.

I mean, think of the context... An atheist troll (how the audience generally is going to see him) is enraged because of fictional portrayals of characters which he himself believes are fictional. It makes my head spin, but if I was an atheist Satanist I'd just be like, "Yeah, so what they're insulting my non-religion with fantasy it's about as important to me as when a long-haired white guy is the villain on some crime show."

edit -- and I find it terribly amusing that both me and Adam think Gilmore is mealy-mouthed. :D
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 02:25:24 am by Mindmaster »

Etu Malku

Re: Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2018, 03:35:20 am »
I am not so much arguing the legal right of an exact image stolen as I am the principal.

For example, in AHS Anton LaVey and The Chuch of Satan are mentioned by name in reference to an act of human sacrifice. Obviously the CoS cannot claim slander on ASL's name, that would be up to members of his family (I think), but as the  current CEO of the Church of Satan, Gilmore could certainly attempt to make a slander case as the CoS in all of it's years of existence has never condoned such an act.

Will he?

I doubt it. He seems content to bitch and moan on the internet. Though perhaps I am giving him a bit too much credit here, he may also be pragmatic enough to understand that the franchise AHS and the network that distributes it would be able to crush him in terms of legal financing.

Thus far, unless my understanding is incorrect, Lucien Greaves has done little more than threaten a lawsuit and tweeted, none of which seem to be shaking Netflix's tree. Again, were he to be fully pragmatic, it is likely that TST's legal funds would be no match for that of Netflix.

Threatening to or even following through with filing a lawsuit certainly sounds impressive. However, we must also be mindful of the success which ultimately is the deciding factor. For instance, has The Satanic Temple yet to find a permanent home for their Baphomet statue in Oklahoma?

What I do find interesting is that these seemingly warring Satanic groups (TST and CoS) are both complaining about essentially the same thing at the same time and in part over the same fictional show (Gilmore's article also mentions The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina). Also both groups are claiming similar things.

Without, knowing much about Lucien Greaves, I will say that there seems to be a similar trait to Gilmore as well here: The Stick Up Your Ass Syndrome.

With Gilmore, I think that he has disillusioned himself over the years to believing that his mealy mouthed white washing of Satanic concepts along with his pencil pouch demeanor has somehow thrust Satanism into the upper echelons of society. I could be wrong, but I get the impression that to a degree that Greaves feels that because The Satanic Temple has social causes that he also has elevated Satanism into a more accepting role for the masses.

IMO here is where both fall short: Satanism was never intended to be a religion for the masses or one that was to try to prove itself worthy of such an acceptance. Time was that Satanists would be disgusted by such grovelling and pandering.

The other thing that both of these organizations seem to miss is that they are actually promoting these shows more than the other way around. They need these Devil's (shows) far more than these Devil's need them. It is through this prism that one can see a major shift in dynamics. Remember the days that Bob Larson and others invited prominent Satanists on their shows to boost their ratings? They needed those Devils.

Personally, I think that the mass marketing of Satanism has made it both a blessing and a curse by way of mainstream acceptance. As an old timer, my idea of Satanism wasn't to go into a Hot Topic and see the Sigil of Baphomet on t-shirts and such. In that sense I miss the days when we were a bit more feared. On the other hand, when such marketing is prevalent and accepted it is now more easy than ever before for those true Satanists to claim to be nothing more than fans of the genre when confronted. Let them laugh, write it off as fictional shock tactics, and practice privately as always now with an added layer of fictional protection to fall back on.

That's my two or three cents.
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IAMTHATIAMNOT

W_Adam_Smythe

Re: Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2018, 03:38:49 am »
http://www.churchofsatan.com/the-rise-of-the-satanic-unease-by-magus-peter-h-gilmore/

Tldr:

Waaaah we're the only Satanists! Why does nobody understand how cool and chill we are? Why can't we just be accepted?! We're such victims!!!! Modern horror is literally all to make fun of CoS!!!


What he fails to realize is that it simply boils down to a dearth of creativity and reliance on cultural tropes to market and sell anything. Since the predominate culture in America is Judeo-Christian, it's obvious their simply going to make content that plays on the fears and misunderstandings for financial reasons. This is entertainment, after all, and that means fiction is OK.

The real Satanists just don't care if we're accepted or not, but if he cares why hasn't his organization to do a damn thing to change the public views? If he's truly the authority of Satanism why doesn't he act like it? Well, it's simple... He knows he doesn't have that authority, because that authority comes from respect earned by defending it. When, and if, he publicly appears it's always some mealy-mouthed rambling about atheism and how Church of Satan pretends. This type of view, when presented, is just something even the audience can't even respect. He can't change a single heart or mind because he's got all the impact of a wet noodle.

I mean, think of the context... An atheist troll (how the audience generally is going to see him) is enraged because of fictional portrayals of characters which he himself believes are fictional. It makes my head spin, but if I was an atheist Satanist I'd just be like, "Yeah, so what they're insulting my non-religion with fantasy it's about as important to me as when a long-haired white guy is the villain on some crime show."

edit -- and I find it terribly amusing that both me and Adam think Gilmore is mealy-mouthed. :D


I don't find myself disagreeing with any of this. As for Gilmore being mealy-mouthed, I have been of that opinion for years. Just out of curiosity why do you find it amusing?

Little Beast

Re: Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2018, 07:02:20 am »
Without, knowing much about Lucien Greaves, I will say that there seems to be a similar trait to Gilmore as well here: The Stick Up Your Ass Syndrome.

With Gilmore, I think that he has disillusioned himself over the years to believing that his mealy mouthed white washing of Satanic concepts along with his pencil pouch demeanor has somehow thrust Satanism into the upper echelons of society.

Oh, please.

The reason why it's amusing is the same reason Ms Chokesondick was amusing as a school teacher in South Park. They're animated cartoon characters with mediocre references to subject matter in order not to affront the consumer with realism.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 07:04:04 am by Little Beast »

W_Adam_Smythe

Re: Hilarious: "Rise of the Satanic Unease" by "Magus" Peter Gilmore
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2018, 04:02:28 am »
To add to this little bit of comedy:

Hypocrisy and lies:

https://www.churchofsatan.com/regarding-the-netflix-sabrina-lawsuit/

The hypocrisy is that this is coming from a group who has tried every way that they can to claim trademark and copyright on a symbol that no one within the CoS created. When it gets down to the ground zero level, they are willing to literally go line by squiggly line to show how that theirs is unique.

In the same article we have this lie:

Quote
nor do we have a problem with their Sabrina show, which we’ve previously discussed.

In the hyperlink they provide it takes us back to the original article which CoS CEO Gilmore states,

Quote
Ultimately, it seems these current references, particularly in these Netflix and FX shows, are the price we pay for being prominent in contemporary media. The shows’ producers can easily claim these are parodies. Their dialogue establishes that none of this is meant to be taken seriously, that these are over-the-top exaggerations for what are meant to be entertaining programs. This is nothing new as there have been better parodies of Satanism and I’ve covered them in Laughing Best—Humorists Take On Satanism. However, these recent efforts fulfill the sort of Christian fantasies about Satanism that were rampant during The Satanic Panic. While the demographics suggest that the viewership of AHS and Sabrina likely won’t confuse these mockeries of Satanism with our legally recognized iconoclastic religion, I wouldn’t be surprised if less sophisticated viewers might take these as somehow being accurate and thereby feel they need to direct hostility towards actual Satanists who are “out” to society. Thus the current Satanic Unease could possibly escalate. We’ll be monitoring such developments as this trend plays out.

So, yes, it would seem that the CoS does have a problem with both AHS and Sabrina.

All of this is in contrast to Stanton Z LaVey who said that not only is AHS one of his favorite shows, but that his Grandfather would have liked and had fun with his portrayal.

On a slightly different note, however, I must admit that the CoS's recent obsession with pedophilia seems a bit out of character if not down right disturbing.