Author Topic: sex magic with partners  (Read 761 times)

idgo

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2018, 07:14:06 pm »
PS. I think this could all be resolved within a week by a phone call. But I'd prefer to remain blissfully ignorant in this state if indeed I am refused. I've done awesome and crazy things but for this small task, I am scared. Terrified of the outcome. It's not like this is a proposal or something. Rather, "Hey, I think I like you and I am once sorry for it. But I can't shake it".

If this is a consistent pattern in your behavior, I'd like to point out a pattern you might not have gathered enough subjective data to stumble upon yet: Imagined sex exists in a realm in which a well developed mind ultimately has perfect control. This means that "perfect" sex, "perfect" relationships, for your subjective definition of perfection, are capable of existing in imagination, because they are not constrained by being the average of what you and some other discrete individual with free will want. Conversely, experiences shared with another individual who has free will are a compromise toward figuring out what works best for both parties... Even non-consent play has an element of having a particular desired response from the partner who's "just a toy", which they may or may not be able to provide.

The stakes for missing out on the sex you're imagining are exactly as high as you're acting like. Trick is, it's immensely improbable that the first few sexual encounters between any 2 humans will even compare to what either of them imagined. Sure, there's the occasional accident in which a pair of people with very well aligned needs and preferences happen to get together, but those are a vanishingly small proportion of all first times and if you get into a state where you feel like you have to luck into that, you're setting yourself up for failure.

Usually the way people figure out that an average first sexual encounter between 2 people is likely to be very average is simply a weight of experience. With that, they learn to avoid expecting too much, which ironically improves the quality of subsequent encounters by reducing the pressure they put on themself.

Quote
Hey, I think I like you and I am once sorry for it. But I can't shake it

I doubt you'd enjoy the kind of dynamic where you have to apologize for your feelings, unless you happen to have a highly specific kink about that kind of thing. Better "I feel this way, and I apologize for any problems caused by my decision to tell you or the actions I take as a result" than ever "I apologize for being myself".

And it may help to differentiate between "I can't shake my fondness for the idea of you that I've formed from our interactions so far", from "I will never be able to dislike you". Those are frequently confused, and often result in great distress when someone conflates them and then discovers that the real subject of their crush is actually quite different from the idealized internal model. 

pi_rameses

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2018, 09:08:29 pm »
Yes. These escapades can take off pleasantly in the fantasies of ones subjective experience.

I think I'm over my mood this morning. I just wanted to shout and rage a bit for the most unnecessarily boyish reason.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 09:11:42 pm by pi_rameses »
"Some say Kos, others Kosm.
As you did for the vacuous Rom,
grant us eyes.
Grant us eyes."

-Micolash, Host of the Nightmare

pi_rameses

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2018, 07:49:02 pm »
I retract my previous post now. I am unsure if I agree with it now. I believe the thoughts in my journal to be accurate now.
"Some say Kos, others Kosm.
As you did for the vacuous Rom,
grant us eyes.
Grant us eyes."

-Micolash, Host of the Nightmare

Beetle

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2018, 03:21:28 am »
"Sex Magic" is a strange thing, it's kind of post-modernist in a way. Is is magic? or is it just bdsm?
Does "sex magic" actually manifest actual results? or just make oneself feel cool?  :)

__metztli

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2018, 04:41:42 am »
"Sex Magic" is a strange thing, it's kind of post-modernist in a way. Is is magic? or is it just bdsm?
Does "sex magic" actually manifest actual results? or just make oneself feel cool?  :)

Have't ever tried with a partner,  scared of being hokey in intimacy. And I've never tried BDSM so.

Also this might require some practice with a partner to be on the same page. Some rehearsal might be recommended as not to disrupt the role-play.
I can imagine meeting a fellow satanist and trying this out and in the middle of the ritual falling into disagreement on who does what, or who misses what, or adds what.

But from a purely masturbatory stand point, I love it.
Being in a sex less marriage "sex magic"  has helped me cope with a long failing relationship.


My manifested results are pretty standard...maybe even psychologically sound... I get sexual release which helps me avoid the pit falls of looking for outside validation, and trouble with the opposite sex that may lead to further problems.



Kapalika

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2018, 05:20:08 am »
"Sex Magic" is a strange thing, it's kind of post-modernist in a way. Is is magic? or is it just bdsm?
Does "sex magic" actually manifest actual results? or just make oneself feel cool?  :)

Considering that I can give you examples of sex magic references as far back as 1,500 years I'd say it's not post modern.

Let me find some in a book; "The Kāpālikas and Kālāmukhas; Two Lost Śaivite Sects" by David N. Lorenzen

"The aim of these rituals was communion of the worshiper and mundane plain the devotee gained suprahuman magical powers (siddhis) while n the eschatological plain he attained final liberation from transmigratory existence (mukti) and dwelt in the heaven of perpetual sexual bliss."

Page 83

"During the sexual act the Sadhaka should mentally recite a mantra verse to the goddess. By this means 'he creates the attitude of the oneness of Shiva and Shakti.[78] As he 'abandons his semen' he should recite the following mantra; 'Om with light and ether as my two hands, I the exulting one, relying on the ladle, I , who takes dharma and non-dharma as his sacrificial ingredients, offer (this oblation) lovingly into the fire, svaha.'[79] Here orgasm is both communion and sacrifice!"

page 92

I can't seem to find the third relevant quote in or around that chapter (was looking by a physical copy) but it says roughly that ancient sources had to be aware that the Kāpālikas were not mere hedonists due to the references to asceticism, which would imply a very fleshed out theology. We can see that in the two quotes above, that sex in of itself wasn't the only goal.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 05:30:44 am by Kapalika »
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Beetle

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2018, 05:22:24 am »
Have't ever tried with a partner,  scared of being hokey in intimacy. And I've never tried BDSM so.

I've tried it before with my wife but hasn't proven itself to live up to its name.

I can imagine meeting a fellow satanist

Interesting you mention (though there are "Satanists" here), is there actually anything "Satanic" about sex magic?
It is just dumbed-down Hindu Tantra after-all (which has varying results, Hinduism isn't perfect)

and in the middle of the ritual falling into disagreement on who does what, or who misses what, or adds what.

Lol, I can imagine. My wife didn't mind who did what when we tried it.

My manifested results are pretty standard...maybe even psychologically sound... I get sexual release which helps me avoid the pit falls of looking for outside validation, and trouble with the opposite sex that may lead to further problems.

Interesting there.

Kapalika

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2018, 05:28:23 am »
Forgot title of book and a couple of typos, fixed that.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 05:40:24 am by Kapalika »
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

__metztli

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2018, 05:47:08 am »


I can imagine meeting a fellow satanist


Online...sure.
IRL? probably not and less likely in my city.
And I'm most likely not going to search...
 :facepalm:


Kapalika

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2018, 05:56:14 am »
Interesting you mention (though there are "Satanists" here), is there actually anything "Satanic" about sex magic?
It is just dumbed-down Hindu Tantra after-all (which has varying results, Hinduism isn't perfect)


Not directed at me but not all sex magic comes from Hinduism or Tantra, but it's usually referenced just because it's something to compare against.

And actually a lot of Satanic texts provide resources and thoughts on sex magic and as far as I can tell they have no connection to Tantric sex (which as you point out, is often watered down but when it comes to someone like me, I'm not like the flood of new age, tantra wannabes on the market trying to profit off of buzz words).
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Beetle

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2018, 07:57:37 am »
Considering that I can give you examples of sex magic references as far back as 1,500 years I'd say it's not post modern.

I wasn't referring to the practice/act itself, I was referring to the term (and association of) "Sex Magic". It's sex, sure, but is it really a form of Magic? what does it achieve? (ignoring the pleasures of sex)

Olive

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2018, 04:43:50 pm »
I’ve had some experience with this - but I should say that the full experience of tantric sex is really only available between two people that are both “awakened” or that have spiritually regenerated themselves. I’ve never experienced this myself - I’ve only ever met a few people in real life that have done any serious development work in this vein and most of them aren’t looking for a hookup. :D

In general, the methods available when only one partner is an adept, are more parasitic and involve either drawing power from the other in order to enhance oneself and manifest one’s will, or otherwise to completely overwhelm the weaker partner to dominate them psychologically.

A few common themes that you will find in various traditions of sex magic:

It has long been said that a black magician who speaks his wish or meditates on it at the moment of ecstasy in orgasm, will not fail to achieve it. I think there’s something very Pavlovian about this but you can decide if there’s more to it.

Transmuting the sexual essence (usually semen) into internal energy. This involves the retaining of one’s own essence (not spilling a drop of semen) and also taking and absorbing as much as possible from the other person. The classical example of this is done in sodomy, but it’s also been practiced by absorbing the substance sublingually. I’ve never done this myself and it seems pretty gross. I can’t help but think that this line of thinking is a corruption of the idea of transmuting the sexual energy through kundalini practices. But I can’t rightly say - it may be possible to achieve some kind of result that way.

Semi-tantric sex, where one engages in the act for long periods of time. Both partners go for hours, usually slowly, without bringing it to its natural conclusion. One is subject to sensory overload of the most intense variety but must remain unconquered by it; In time both partners sort of melt into each other and the individual selves are destroyed. I have done this quite a few times and I do find it to be effective in multiple ways. It both emulates the dissolution of self one experiences in samadhi as well as strengthening the Will to an incredible degree by exerting simultaneous self control and loss of self. This I think is probably the most effective way to use sex for spiritual purposes, and it can be seen prominently in the eastern tradition - but also in something like the movement of Dianism the late 1800s on. Fair warning: if you attempt this method before you’ve conquered your passions, you will very likely fail - but even if you succeed you have a high likelihood of creating a bond between your consciousness and the other that may affect you for years to come. Use caution and discretion.

The sexual abuse of children. This I find to be a despicable practice and it is easily the darkest of all mentioned, exceeding even the aim of psychological domination. For that reason I won’t say much about it. But unfortunately it does have a long history, being referenced in the Talmudic tradition as well as others. I’ll just say it has to do with stealing youth and innoncence, and is also linked to the high ritual value of virgins as sacrifices and brides... Blegh.



Another line of approach to this question is the answer of Chastity - conquering the sex drive totally by not indulging in it and focusing on transmuting the highest motivation nature gives us toward the manifestation of our own Will. I’ve been under a vow of chastity for quite a while now and it has been very powerful in the goal of developing myself. Obviously this method has been promulgated by many spiritual traditions for those who are most serious. In fact, a year of chastity is usually required before even attempting to use sex for magical purposes, for reasons which I’ve already alluded to.

But I suppose that’s a bit off topic, since the methods involved do not require a partner. Whatever one does, be aware that in any case both partners take a bit of each other with them when the act is done; and to that degree they become like their partner. Use discretion when you choose someone to engage with in this manner, as you will be taking a piece of their soul with you, however black, and leaving some of yourself behind.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 04:48:00 pm by Olive »
    Art thou pale for weariness
Of climbing heaven, and gazing on the earth,
     Wandering companionless
Among the stars that have a different birth, -
And ever-changing, like a joyless eye
That finds no object worth its constancy?

-Percy Bysshe Shelley

RussellHart

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2018, 10:21:16 am »
Sex magic is having a small penis, but making it seem you have an enormous penis, until both of you believe now you have the best hugest penis in the world, and then looking at your penis and it actually looks enormous, though if we measured it it wouldn't surpass 5 inches!!!  :thumbsup:  :rolleyes:  :mrgreen:

Illusion
Make the ego your bitch, BITCH.

Olive

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2019, 09:51:37 pm »
Lol... if you could pull that off, it would be an example of magic applied to sexual encounters. But to be honest with you - most women aren’t fooled. They can tell when someone’s packing heat, and when someone is full of bluster. If they pretend to be fooled/impressed in order to enhance the experience for their partner, then the magical relationship to sex is opposite what the man assumed. :D
    Art thou pale for weariness
Of climbing heaven, and gazing on the earth,
     Wandering companionless
Among the stars that have a different birth, -
And ever-changing, like a joyless eye
That finds no object worth its constancy?

-Percy Bysshe Shelley

NEMO 93

Re: sex magic with partners
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2019, 12:59:16 am »
Seems that list covers almost all of the basics of uses of Sex Magic, @Kapalika.


In addition, magical child, sometimes known as moon child. I'm reading Kenneth Grant now and he talks about creating a moon child with astral entities that are more stellar and foreign in nature, which a lot of focus on the kalas to do so.


I've also seen him mention to use it for dream control, and even solo sex magic, could work for dream control but it gets more intense with a partner, obviously.


And antionomianism seems to be  a common reason in a lot, lot of practices of sex magic. I'm sure you're familiar with that in a hindu sense so I won't bore you repeating stuff I know less about than you. I do know it was mentioned somewhere I can't recall that Crowley would chose partners that often repulsed him in someway so that he would get closer to accepting the universe as is . Not sure if true, but at least a logical guess.

Fun note on to join with the elemental, I've never seen that mentioned until I read an Enochian Sex Magic book.

Also, Lon Milo DuQuette has come up with a way to use sex magic with the Goetia. How safe that is, I don't know, but in that case it seems to serve to increases gnosis.