Author Topic: Thought on Apep and Tiamat  (Read 192 times)

Xepera maSet

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Thought on Apep and Tiamat
« on: October 28, 2018, 02:38:45 pm »
It's interesting to note that in Egypt the chaos serpent was never actually killed, unlike in Sumer were Tiamat was killed and used to make the cosmos. I think this illustrates the divide between RHP and LHP views of chaos. The RHP gods of Sumer murdered the chaos serpent whereas the LHP good Set keeps the chaos serpent at Bay. This is because the LHP practitioner knows chaos must be temprred, not destroyed. It's what helps us in things like black magic, what allows us to use order when we want, but abandon it when we want.

"The Dragon became as a many-headed Serpent,
It's fiery tongues bearing forth speech
Into all the kingoms of the Earth."


My book, "Behold: the Prince of Darkness!": https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1726037460/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1726037460

Etu Malku

Re: Thought on Apep and Tiamat
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2018, 04:04:29 pm »
Exactly! I'd like to add that in ancient Egypt they had this Ouroboric philosophy of a perpetuating cycle of Maat/Order - Apep/Chaos - Khepri/Transformation - Maat/Order ad infinitum!
IAMTHATIAMNOT

NEMO 93

Re: Thought on Apep and Tiamat
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2018, 06:28:34 pm »
Pretty much false. The priests were required to make fetishes of Apep and kill it every day.

Xepera maSet

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Re: Thought on Apep and Tiamat
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2018, 06:32:02 pm »
Daily yes. But it returns. Tiamat was killed and turned into the universe. It seems the Egyptians were aware of this metaphysical idea that Apep was never actually "dead".

Side note: Apep/Cthulhu synchronicity right there.

"The Dragon became as a many-headed Serpent,
It's fiery tongues bearing forth speech
Into all the kingoms of the Earth."


My book, "Behold: the Prince of Darkness!": https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1726037460/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1726037460

crossfire

Re: Thought on Apep and Tiamat
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2018, 10:11:06 am »
Ma'at is expressed via negative confessions, no? (In the paraphrased manner of:  I have not wronged any, I have not closed my mind to words of truth, etc.)  Couldn't slaying these unconscious compulsions (represented by Apep in the duat--unconscious mind) by Set (isolate intelligence) be logically refuting these unconscious compulsions rather than having your mind overcome by them and being enslaved by them?
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

pi_rameses

Re: Thought on Apep and Tiamat
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2018, 12:16:29 pm »
I see your point. The Chaoskampf is a bit different in other mythos. For instance, Siegfried and George each slay the Dragon once and no more. I don't really have an answer for it. It is conceivable how Set's struggle could be construed as a Sisyphean one. I consider it more relatable to the process of Initiation when thinking of being met with resistance every step of the way. The restless surge in life.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 12:20:23 pm by pi_rameses »
"Some say Kos, others Kosm.
As you did for the vacuous Rom,
grant us eyes.
Grant us eyes."

-Micolash, Host of the Nightmare

crossfire

Re: Thought on Apep and Tiamat
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2018, 03:15:02 pm »
Wouldn't "killing" the chaos monster "once and for all" actually represent repression, rather than individuation?
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

pi_rameses

Re: Thought on Apep and Tiamat
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2018, 08:21:55 pm »
Yes. It seems to me a standard exercise in repression and developing neurosis over time. I regard this negatively. In each of the permanent slayers, there was a positive change in their state of consciousness. Some sort of awakening. For Siegfried, it turned out to originate from imbibing the dragon's blood during the struggle. This always fascinated me and Franz Winkler does it proper justice in explaining this.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 08:27:52 pm by pi_rameses »
"Some say Kos, others Kosm.
As you did for the vacuous Rom,
grant us eyes.
Grant us eyes."

-Micolash, Host of the Nightmare

Liu

Re: Thought on Apep and Tiamat
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2018, 02:39:59 pm »
I see your point. The Chaoskampf is a bit different in other mythos. For instance, Siegfried and George each slay the Dragon once and no more. I don't really have an answer for it. It is conceivable how Set's struggle could be construed as a Sisyphean one. I consider it more relatable to the process of Initiation when thinking of being met with resistance every step of the way. The restless surge in life.
George is "fun" in any case, instead of slaying the dragon immediately, he bound it and brought it to the village he had told to free from it, threatening the inhabitants to let it loose if they don't let him baptize them.

In other words, some of the stories might not fit into our psychological interpretations since they were simply about something completely different.
Not wanting to discourage you from trying and finding such interpretations, though.

pi_rameses

Re: Thought on Apep and Tiamat
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2018, 05:42:21 pm »
 :D yes George was quite the saint compelling others like that.
"Some say Kos, others Kosm.
As you did for the vacuous Rom,
grant us eyes.
Grant us eyes."

-Micolash, Host of the Nightmare

crossfire

Re: Thought on Apep and Tiamat
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2018, 09:48:46 pm »
Wouldn't "killing" the chaos monster "once and for all" actually represent repression, rather than individuation?
If you "slay" (or repress) the monster once and for all, you miss the opportunity to learn all these things about yourself, and remain ignorant of your unconscious workings.  If you logically refute the unskillful compulsions as they arise, then you learn about your unconscious workings, and can consciously guide it away from taking unskillful actions.
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

pi_rameses

Re: Thought on Apep and Tiamat
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2018, 12:08:55 am »
In some sense, the emphasis of the stories isn't the destruction of the primeval serpent but the inculcation of positive self evolution through contention with it. It is not to say that the forces of entropy are necessarily evil. Obviously, some order is favored. But the conflagration of the world is also inevitable so that it may be reborn. This process also holds for individuals through any stage in life. This is kind of how I have come to understand acosmic Satanism.
"Some say Kos, others Kosm.
As you did for the vacuous Rom,
grant us eyes.
Grant us eyes."

-Micolash, Host of the Nightmare