Author Topic: Magic vs. Drugs  (Read 286 times)

Etu Malku

Re: Magic vs. Drugs
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2018, 05:10:56 pm »
I can't understand being this against drugs. Caffeine? It's really overzealous.

In my opinon, the basics of the left hand path are living without restriction and strengthening your will power, and knowing your limits to maximize focus.

I don't really see how thinking similar to many moral crusades can fit into it effectively.

And on alteration of conscious, there's literally scientific evidence that prayer changes lights up different parts of the brain altering its conscious. You're always living in some kind of state of concious and it's always altering, you're more likely being deluded practicing occultism and believing its 100 percent real than doing a psychadelic a couple times. But it's no coincidence that psychadelic burn-outs end up like the most annoying magus-itis occultist.
Who was passing moral judgment on using drugs for spiritual purposes, or in general? The WLHP that H☿D abides by understands karma in that choices being made can be either beneficial or detrimental, "living without restriction" does not usually fall into the beneficial category.

I see prayer as a "lost" magical art. It has become rote recitations or simple wish-making. Prayer originally was a process of concentrated visualization, combined with emotional and mental energy, properly grounded to the physical through proper vocalization.

The spoken Word became in essence praying, this was first understood by the ancient Egyptians in the way of Affirmations and made manifest in (Heka) vibrational magic. Efforts were made to align sound with the principles of a cosmic order (natural ordering of the universe) which perhaps could be seen as a LOGOS, the dialog with that part of your Self that has the ability to create any condition you need or desire.

The invocation within a prayer unites our meditative state of consciousness with the power of the Word and our innate force of Will.
IAMTHATIAMNOT

Olive

Re: Magic vs. Drugs
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2018, 05:31:51 pm »
I can't understand being this against drugs. Caffeine? It's really overzealous.

Hey, people can do it if they like :) I only meant as a practitioner it’s better to do without it’s influence. Especially if it’s going to end up being something done every day or most days. A glass of sweet tea is different than multiple servings of coffee/espresso on the regular. The need it creates is more of a problem to me than its effects. Though neither is beneficial to magical or spiritual practice imo.
    Art thou pale for weariness
Of climbing heaven, and gazing on the earth,
     Wandering companionless
Among the stars that have a different birth, -
And ever-changing, like a joyless eye
That finds no object worth its constancy?

-Percy Bysshe Shelley

Kapalika

Re: Magic vs. Drugs
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2018, 01:04:25 am »

I find myself pretty much in agreement with @NEMO 93 and @Liu here. As long as with purpose and caution, it's viable.

I don't get the 'unsafe route = LHP - safe route = RHP' thing.

Sighs. Well, hopefully you won't try to misconstrue this.. but...

Taboo breaking and lack of distinction between pure and impure ritual and magical acts have both been features of the Left Hand Path for ages. Such methodologies come with certain dangers which the skilled magician should be apt to diminish through discipline and preparation.

I mean come on, it's literally one of the main dividing factors between RHP and LHP. All the safe, status quo, psychologically unchallenging practices are promoted by the RHP and they avoid the risky ones. It's the LHP that ventures into the "quick and dirty" spiritual work. Not that that is the whole of the LHP, but certainly we are willing to take more risks.

You can't understand the difference between meditating/visualization and taking LSD? Interesting!

I feel as if this is a jab that only makes sense when you intentionally ignore my wording. Clearly I said "fundamentally" as in it all changes consciousness through physical means. Never did I suggest that it was wholly or even mostly alike.

Fasting is a form of sensory deprivation, in spiritual use, it creates a state called Ketosis which in turn enables the body and mind to enter into a trance state that much easier for some.

Right, and that's a chemical process intentionally brought on by the magician. I don't see how fundamentally certain drugs are different. How's this any different from say chewing salvia as a meditation aid? It also helps "the body and mind enter a trance state that [is] much easier for some."
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Etu Malku

Re: Magic vs. Drugs
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2018, 01:24:15 am »
The feeling of pleasure is completely different from the feeling of Bliss. Drugs or any intoxicating substance releases dopamine hormones that give a temporary feeling of pleasure that eventually ends up with anxiety and depression unless a new dose is administered. All kinds of drugs also release cortisol hormone which causes stress and can be a natural carcinogen (cancer-causing). This is the brains hooking to reward compulsions.

On the other hand, the practice of meditation releases hormones like oxytocin and serotonin. Oxytocin induces the feeling of love and serotonin is a natural detoxifying healer as opposed to cortisol hormone which is a natural poison.

Drugs and meditation have opposite effects on the mind. Drugs excite the mind where it starts racing like a wild horse without direction increasing stress and anxiety. On the other hand, meditation calms down the mind reducing stress, anxiety, and inflammation in the body.

Drug addiction makes a person fickle minded with loose morals whereas meditation gives focus, resilience and a strong character.

The objective of meditation is to achieve a blissful state of mind, without side effects, unlike happiness which always ends up with sadness being different faces of the same coin. Constant practice of meditation gives a long, healthy, blissful and meaningful life.
______________________________________________________________
Babush Bharthi, Kriya Yoga Teacher/Hindustani Music Therapist
IAMTHATIAMNOT

Etu Malku

Re: Magic vs. Drugs
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2018, 01:29:39 am »
Right, and that's a chemical process intentionally brought on by the magician. I don't see how fundamentally certain drugs are different. How's this any different from say chewing salvia as a meditation aid? It also helps "the body and mind enter a trance state that [is] much easier for some."
You're kidding, right?
https://www.livestrong.com/article/25064-dangers-smoking-salvia/
IAMTHATIAMNOT

Little Beast

Re: Magic vs. Drugs
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2018, 02:23:15 am »
It also helps "the body and mind enter a trance state that [is] much easier for some."

I'm all for drug use in a recreational or an occult sense, but I find the fact that (in either) too many can't control themselves once it becomes habitual. How drugs affect people depends on the individual IMO. It's not about what drug they're taking, it's more "oh Sharon is so hilarious after her fifth cocktail" vs "now Billy, last time you drank moonshine you shot four people and sexually molested their livestock".

Kapalika

Re: Magic vs. Drugs
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2018, 03:01:25 am »
Right, and that's a chemical process intentionally brought on by the magician. I don't see how fundamentally certain drugs are different. How's this any different from say chewing salvia as a meditation aid? It also helps "the body and mind enter a trance state that [is] much easier for some."
You're kidding, right?
https://www.livestrong.com/article/25064-dangers-smoking-salvia/


I said chew leaves which causes a totally different and much milder effect than smoking. I'm very skeptical of the use of salvia smoked for spiritual ends, which I do recall at least alluring to in my first posts in this topic.


That said lots of things we do IRL like sex release dopamine even listening to rock music has been shown to increase dopamine. And plenty of drugs can release those hormones and chemicals you say are good through meditation.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 03:04:28 am by Kapalika »
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Etu Malku

Re: Magic vs. Drugs
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2018, 03:51:56 am »
Right, and that's a chemical process intentionally brought on by the magician. I don't see how fundamentally certain drugs are different. How's this any different from say chewing salvia as a meditation aid? It also helps "the body and mind enter a trance state that [is] much easier for some."
You're kidding, right?
https://www.livestrong.com/article/25064-dangers-smoking-salvia/


I said chew leaves which causes a totally different and much milder effect than smoking. I'm very skeptical of the use of salvia smoked for spiritual ends, which I do recall at least alluring to in my first posts in this topic.


That said lots of things we do IRL like sex release dopamine even listening to rock music has been shown to increase dopamine. And plenty of drugs can release those hormones and chemicals you say are good through meditation.
You just like to argue with me, don't you? LOL . . . I think you know perfectly well what I am saying.
IAMTHATIAMNOT

Etu Malku

Re: Magic vs. Drugs
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2018, 06:48:42 pm »
Wait, someine is actually applying all drugs effect the brain the same way and for that reason it's different than how meditation effects the brain? I'm sure all the hundreds of drugs out there, none of them work on similar characters with meditation. This argument is prime example of meditation being as damaging to one's connection to reality as much as drugs are.
Meditation can affect someone neurologically just like certain drugs can, however, there is little if any detrimental effects from meditating. I'd have to ask you what your understanding of 'reality' as, as well?
IAMTHATIAMNOT

Xepera maSet

  • O.S. Co-Founder
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 1722
  • Total likes: 1896
  • Eternally Grateful to Our Forum Members; HAIL YOU!
    • View Profile
    • My Book on Setianism
Re: Magic vs. Drugs
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2018, 06:49:55 pm »
I actually concede and reject my OP. I think this thread it worth existing because of the points made, but also think drug talks can get out of hand. That's my own fault!

"The Dragon became as a many-headed Serpent,
It's fiery tongues bearing forth speech
Into all the kingoms of the Earth."


My book, "Behold: the Prince of Darkness!": https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1726037460/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1726037460