Author Topic: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)  (Read 334 times)

Olive

O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« on: September 01, 2018, 07:37:16 pm »
So, I was just thinking of ways to foster some community interaction outside of dialogue, and a thought occurred to me. Why don't we choose a topic, and then bring our collective symbology skills to bear upon it, so that we may represent it and ourselves by what is produced. And perhaps after a certain time, we shall hold a vote to determine community favorites. (If the community finds it to their liking, maybe we could feature some of the winners in the next newsletter?)

Certainly we are not asking for masterpieces, or anything. Just simple linework that expresses our perspective. If anyone has any feedback on this competition, the presumptive rules, or the topic, please feel free to discuss it with me. Everything is open for revision, that's why this is the Pilot, which may or may not be picked up for a full season's run. ;)


Presumptive Rules
1. Any size canvas or material that you have access to is allowed.
2. Any color may be used in the construction, but please keep it Monochrome so that the spirit of a sigil is preserved, and that it may be transcribed to a different medium for charging and publication.
3. You do not have to follow the established style of any symbolic or occult tradition. Your work can even be mostly automatic or made with incidental energies. Shading, unless it be simple, should probably be avoided for this style.
4. Letters and words are allowed, but extensive descriptions and phrases are discouraged. If you use a different script, you may wish to provide a translation or a pointer towards which language or script it is. It is also fine to include the words that make up the topic somewhere in your submission if you like.
5. You may wish to include a title, or a few lines of poetry/prose alongside your submission; these will be considered supplementary additions to the sigil and not the sigil itself.


Presumptive Topic: XXI - The World


I look forward to hearing some feedback on this. I will be working on a submission to give an example and share some of my own energy (until then, if anyone wants any inspiration as to the suggested medium, I have posted in my journal thread  several sigillic representations, semi-sigils, and automatic line drawings that are mostly within the pretty open rules I suggested.) There is not a ton of urgency with this. I say we should keep this open for 1-2 weeks so that everyone who wants to participate has time to make a submission.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 07:39:50 pm by Olive »
    Art thou pale for weariness
Of climbing heaven, and gazing on the earth,
     Wandering companionless
Among the stars that have a different birth, -
And ever-changing, like a joyless eye
That finds no object worth its constancy?

-Percy Bysshe Shelley

Liu

Re: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2018, 10:58:47 am »
Interesting idea, I might give it a try if I get some inspiration.


Sorry for getting off-topic, but, regarding art and the World card, the one in the Tarot deck I use looks quite different: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1325/0879/articles/tarot-card-meanings-cheat-sheet-major-arcana-world_1024x1024.png?v=1489193487. I have no idea which tradition it's based on, though...

pi_rameses

Re: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2018, 11:00:01 am »
You have my interest, too.
Master Willem was right. Evolution without courage will be the ruin of our race.
-Lawrence

Olive

Re: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2018, 01:09:46 pm »
Interesting idea, I might give it a try if I get some inspiration.


Sorry for getting off-topic, but, regarding art and the World card, the one in the Tarot deck I use looks quite different: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1325/0879/articles/tarot-card-meanings-cheat-sheet-major-arcana-world_1024x1024.png?v=1489193487. I have no idea which tradition it's based on, though...

Welcome aboard! :)

I don't want the topic to be too restrictive - we don't have to reproduce the card itself, but we want to represent the same idea that it does or something like it. Outside of the context of the Tarot, we can interpret this topic as Reality/Existence/The Manifestation/The World itself. I thought it was a good first topic, because it is challenging, but also provides a lot of room for expression.

And actually, your world card does not seem too far outside of the norm - especially if you equate the tools of the elements in it with the four lords of the animals commonly used. (Ox - Earth - Pentacle, Lion - Fire - Wand, Eagle - Air - Sword, Man - Water - Chalice.) (The Tetramorph, Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius). I love the art, btw - I'm sure that deck is a lot of fun.

While we're at it - I'll share the world card from the two tarot decks I use for anyone who is interested. One of them is somewhat dark and complex, while the other is very simple and naturalistic.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 01:15:12 pm by Olive »
    Art thou pale for weariness
Of climbing heaven, and gazing on the earth,
     Wandering companionless
Among the stars that have a different birth, -
And ever-changing, like a joyless eye
That finds no object worth its constancy?

-Percy Bysshe Shelley

Liu

Re: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2018, 03:38:32 pm »
And actually, your world card does not seem too far outside of the norm - especially if you equate the tools of the elements in it with the four lords of the animals commonly used. (Ox - Earth - Pentacle, Lion - Fire - Wand, Eagle - Air - Sword, Man - Water - Chalice.) (The Tetramorph, Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius). I love the art, btw - I'm sure that deck is a lot of fun.
Thanks for the info - I never heard of that equation of these four creatures with the four elements, from what I knew they are only the representatives of the 4 evangelists of the new testament. But it's even mentioned on (German) Wikipedia that they are equated with those Zodiac signs, so, thanks for closing that educational gap of mine. It says there, though, that Man is Scorpio and Aquarius is Eagle (due to being close to the constellation Eagle), and that also better fits the elements (Scorpio is Water and Aquarius is Air, strangely enough).

And yes, I like that deck I use, but it's the first and only I ever used, so I don't know whether it's better or worse than others. I had taken a look at some others, also the traditional decks, but I didn't dig their aesthetics. And with this one, I just downloaded all the images, did some minor graphical editing (cropping, color inversion etc.) and then printed them. I could even color them myself if I wanted, and no need to go out and buy anything ;) - yah, I know I'm stingy.

I like the art on that first deck in your last post here, but the writing on it makes no sense to me whatsoever. Or am I simply lacking the key to interpret it?

NEMO 93

Re: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2018, 09:56:51 pm »
Crowley would depict that card as the universe with a woman intwined with a serpent which obvious sexual and tantric connotations. It keeps the circular pattern but does not bound it by Orobous. It looks like he may have subsituted them for the zodiac?

http://www.esotericmeanings.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/thothuniversetarotcard.jpg

On topic of the zodiacal attributions:

Eagle = top left, has 13 feathers which links it with Atu 13 and the DEATH CARD of which Scorpio (WATER) is assigned and the Eagle plays a part in its symbology.

Man = bears numbers 1 to 7 on his ears (not clearly illustrated)  and this adds up to ATU 17, THE STAR and Aquarius (Air)

Lion = 11 locks of hair = LUST CARD which is attributed to LEO (Fire)

Bull = 5 locks of hair which links it with the HIEROPHANT which is attributed to Taurus (Earth)

Other world cards I like:

http://www.tarotreadingsonline.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/world-deviant-tarot.jpg

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/fe3bd2_ee294669aea54b40b2987e47b6d3604d~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_250,h_430,al_c,q_90/file.jpg

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/519991_fba10c31acca40ff83f4c5f5d8182d8a~mv2_d_2416_1549_s_2.jpg/v1/fill/w_891,h_569,al_c,q_85,usm_1.20_1.00_0.01/519991_fba10c31acca40ff83f4c5f5d8182d8a~mv2_d_2416_1549_s_2.webp

https://78.media.tumblr.com/725b7e5a7e9e3c8ef2c0b32d1407d093/tumblr_nyegyofA0o1qzfsnio7_r1_1280.jpg

Promethea's take on the universe tarot:


https://www.tgfa.org/comics/promethea/images/Promethea_07_14.jpg

NEMO 93

Re: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2018, 10:13:56 pm »
I would probably keep the woman and serpent as the focal point as I quite like it and it works well with both my affinity for thelemic and draconic currents. I would however, keep the Orobous and change to the anticosmic broken orobous to symbolize that there is always higher states of conciousness and levels of attaintment to attain if one is willing beyond the universe. This works better for the zodiac as the zodiac is pretty much the orobous of this galaxy.

I'm not a big zodiac person so I would probably find my own symbols that would come to me in the process of making a full deck to replace the zodiac associations with the elementals yet preserve the links to other cards. I would probably link the woman in the universe tarot to the high priestess figure which may be untraditional but I feel conveys the the over-all theme of Nuit, Babalon, and The Scarlet Woman. To this, this would probably involve me portraying both as the femme fatale noire archetype for soley personal reasons. The heirophant would be the seductive aspect leading you into danger while the universe would be well, obviously the esctatic side.

It was cause glow from the union of the serpent and women, the ecstacy that the women in the universe card to radiate out from her as if it's about to past the veils. It will probably be extending past the broken orobous but yet to penetrate the outer veil in the oval in the universe card- which I would choose to portray as a shadow instead of red. Tentacles of transplutonic lovecraftian deities would slowly be reaching in.


The over-all meaning would retain the themes of union, completion, and so on as well as the spiritual meanings. However, it would highlight the forces leading back to the fool and the cyclical nature as well as the implications the horrors that may look if you continue to tread past the known universe for whatever goal you have.

I won't be illustrating this as I lack the satisfactory skills but I did want to make my thoughts known.

Olive

Re: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2018, 08:53:43 pm »
I would probably keep the woman and serpent as the focal point as I quite like it and it works well with both my affinity for thelemic and draconic currents. I would however, keep the Orobous and change to the anticosmic broken orobous to symbolize that there is always higher states of conciousness and levels of attaintment to attain if one is willing beyond the universe. This works better for the zodiac as the zodiac is pretty much the orobous of this galaxy.

I'm not a big zodiac person so I would probably find my own symbols that would come to me in the process of making a full deck to replace the zodiac associations with the elementals yet preserve the links to other cards. I would probably link the woman in the universe tarot to the high priestess figure which may be untraditional but I feel conveys the the over-all theme of Nuit, Babalon, and The Scarlet Woman. To this, this would probably involve me portraying both as the femme fatale noire archetype for soley personal reasons.

I personally love this in many different ways. The anticosmic and chaos themes are great and connect well with my magical alignment (Also, the word "Transplutonic" is wonderful - where did you get that? I've never heard of it before, and I've seen a lot of words  :D )

I'm also a fan of the connection of the woman and the high priestess, but for different reasons. For me, the High Priestess is a an anointed figure that possesses gnosis of the hidden things. She is already aware of the result of the fools journey, having traveled it herself. In this card she appears as her external manifestation - as a teacher, as an oracle. Not as a restless seeker of knowledge but as a restful librarian of it; she is favored by the moon, as the embodiment of the receptive wisdom of the divine feminine principle. I think we can see her in several cards - she has a distant connection to the Chariot - and of course she is related strongly to the Temperance card, which represents her method. In the Moon card we meet her again, but because of the true sight we acquired in XII, we can now see her full aspect in her god-body. In the World, we are the high priestess in the state of total transcendence and vacuity, being equal to the infinite vitality of the All. Now she is something of an Anti-cosmic Creator.


Quote
I won't be illustrating this as I lack the satisfactory skills but I did want to make my thoughts known.

No worries, that's not necessary. Remember, this isn't OS County Fair - Custom Tarot Cards. The main intention was to keep the submissions fairly simple so it isn't too much of a commitment to play along. The idea was to represent the same energy or idea as the World card in a compact way.

Directly after I posted this thread I had something of a vision which seemed to be inspired by it. I've been drawing it out but it is a little more complex that I originally intended any of these symbols to be! I suppose I did pick a rather complex topic. If anyone has any simpler attempts, please do share! I'd also like to hear some suggestions for possible topics in the future that would be conducive to this type of community effort.

We can start a list of topics that might be fun to symbolize - a couple of thoughts:

Satan?
Air? (Or a different element)
One of the planetary achetypes?
Masculinity?
Evil?
Magic?
Sex?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 08:57:00 pm by Olive »
    Art thou pale for weariness
Of climbing heaven, and gazing on the earth,
     Wandering companionless
Among the stars that have a different birth, -
And ever-changing, like a joyless eye
That finds no object worth its constancy?

-Percy Bysshe Shelley

Liu

Re: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2018, 05:21:35 pm »
I finished mine 8)
Should I just post it in this thread?

Olive

Re: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2018, 12:27:16 am »
Awesome! And certainly, we can keep all of the submissions in this thread. Mine is nearly done - I expected to have it done sooner but I've been filling in at work for a colleague the last few days. Can't wait to share. :)
    Art thou pale for weariness
Of climbing heaven, and gazing on the earth,
     Wandering companionless
Among the stars that have a different birth, -
And ever-changing, like a joyless eye
That finds no object worth its constancy?

-Percy Bysshe Shelley

Liu

Re: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2018, 05:11:59 pm »
Great! Yeah, with it being a contest and all, in next rounds we might want to have someone who doesn't participate to whom we send our submissions so they get all published simultaneously, but it's fine this way, too.

In any case, I did a thing:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j1u1tsaxky8txpi/World.svg

I decided to combine the personification of the world, the serpent around it and the elements into one being. The result looks basically like a tortoise with really long neck and tail. On its shell, head and neck, you find symbols corresponding to the 6 elements: The 5 platonic bodies standing for fire, water, air, earth and spirit (active), and the heptagramm representing spirit (passive). That last one is not the traditional representation as far as I know (no idea what would be the traditional one), but it fits into the number row well enough and 7 traditionally represents purity, unchangeability etc.

There is lots more symbolism in it (e.g. in the choice of where the elements are placed on the body), but I'll let you think about that yourselves for now.

In total, it represents how the seemingly objective and subjective parts of existence form one whole.

Btw, the second time I ever used a vector software, so no idea how to make the lines any smoother, and I also didn't put that much effort in making the geometrical shapes fully regular. The heptagram is just copy-pasted from Wikipedia. If anyone has any tips for me, they are appreciated!

(embedding a dropbox-link as picture doesn't seem to work:
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 05:15:27 pm by Liu »

Onyx

Re: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2018, 01:49:44 am »
Sorry for the shitty picture. And yes I'm wierd.

idgo

Re: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2018, 10:25:27 pm »
Taking this a direction rather divorced from Tarot, may I offer you a sigil:



If you'd rather spot the 3D thing I hold in my head when thinking it, a shaded copy: https://i.imgur.com/OlW1blB.jpg

If you'd rather stop spotting 3D things, here's as a silhouette:
https://i.imgur.com/6xzigVP.jpg


World is a tough concept to sigilize, especially within my personal preferences for how I like sigils to look. However, I feel like this crosses enough dimensions of "world" to be worth submitting:

First, the overall form alludes to the alchemical symbol for "earth". This catches the first gloss, of "world" as "where we live", or "that thing you can feel on top of" if you take the "cute naked chick transcended to a sensation of power and that's why there's no literal earth on the earth card" tarot interpretation.

As to the slice portrayed through the "cone": It's the interpretation of "the world" as a single location on a timeline. In visualizing time an interpretation of space with time as a linear dimension, I view "the world" as the single point at which a cone of (pasts which could have led to this present) touches a cone of (futures that this present could lead to). A simple reassignment of the meanings of dimensions can easily yield a visualization in which "the world" is a plane, slicing along a space of possibilities and leaving behind it a solidified past. That's the visualization that I'm alluding to by portraying the "future" section as hollow, and the "past" section as solid, when this sigil is viewed as a physical object. And yes, that time stuff fits in a sigil of the world -- scratch even the surface of modern physics and you'll notice that the barriers between "where" and "when" are illusory at best.

I drew this sigil as a 3D shape pentagonal in cross section for 2 reasons: First, you'll get a pentacle if you try to connect all the corners of any plane through it, just as one inevitably finds oneself in occult or metaphysical studies when one seeks a common thread of meaning between the disparate corners of human knowledge and experience. Second, my thought about the nature of "reality" has been shaped greatly by ideologies that view "the real world" as the "realm of agreement" or "realm of consensus" shared by individuals (I've met it in both Temple of the Vampire and DKMU writings so far). The key thing about the shared world as Consensus is that there is necessarily always at least one additional side to the present invisible to any given observer, and often only imaginable in the future as well. No matter which way you look at a pentagonal pyramid, you'll never see all the sides at once thanks to the constraints of 3-space.

And if you don't have the kind of brain that instantly turns a line drawing into a 3D shape, I'm sure you can spot both the dancing lady and Coyote's face in it. They're there too.

(and if the reader lives a decade hence and imgur is no more and un backed up, you can construct the sigil easily yourself. Draw a pyramid with a pentagonal base, one point of the cross section facing toward the viewer, point downward. Cut a horizontal slice from the pyramid, below its center. Slice thickness is such that you see perfect little v shapes cut into the outer sides of the form's silhouette. Draw in the lines so the bit below the slice looks solid, and the bit above the slide looks hollow. Voila, you have the sigil discussed herein!)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 10:27:35 pm by idgo »
If everything's imaginary, it's all the more important to speak clearly and precisely when communicating meaning is the goal. But English flows better with synonyms, so I may interchange:
External = Objective = Consensus = Outside World
Internal = Subjective = Personal Reality

Olive

Re: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2018, 11:38:08 pm »
Wow, I'm really impressed with the submissions so far!

I love the wheel of platonic solids entwined by the serpent in @Liu 's submission. Also interesting choice of medium - I am far too finicky to deal with computer art, I'm afraid. Making the lines a bit thicker might help it look smoother, but otherwise I wouldn't know how to help.

@Onyx ' submission seems to me to read perfectly for his purpose. It practically radiates cosmic balance and eternity. I'm glad a literal yin-yang symbol was not used, but the same spirit is touched upon by your interlocking variation on the theme.

@idgo Very unconventional - Before reading your post I wouldn't necessarily consider something like this a sigil, but seeing your submission has changed my mind. I dig the simplicity, which I'm afraid is the exact opposite of the piece I made. Honestly my favorite thing about it is the 2d readings you mention - I'm able to hold both the 3d and 2d perspectives in my mind at once with pretty good success, which certainly makes it more powerful IMO.


Uploading my long awaited submission! Forgive me for the wait, friends. I put this down and lost inspiration to finish it for a while. My internet has been down so I've only just today been able to see your takes on XXI - The World. My version is quite complicated - much more so than I ever planned when I started this. But as I said, a vision came to me that I felt compelled to record. I wasn't able to reproduce all of the imagery that then appeared to me in the space I had, so I replaced several with more simple and recognizable sigils based on my best interpretation of the ones that could not be kept. It's actually quite dense in meaning; I've provided multiple shots so that you guys can pick over some of the details. Those of you who are familiar with my contributions on this site likely have a leg up in fully understanding this as some of it does arise from my personal tradition. ( @pi_rameses ? :b)

I may come back around in a few days to break this down and explain some of the more obscure parts if no one can get much from it - but I'm a little conflicted. I don't want to reduce it to pure concepts or spend too much time glorifying my own work, so I hope you guys are able to decipher this.
    Art thou pale for weariness
Of climbing heaven, and gazing on the earth,
     Wandering companionless
Among the stars that have a different birth, -
And ever-changing, like a joyless eye
That finds no object worth its constancy?

-Percy Bysshe Shelley

idgo

Re: O.S County Fair - Sigilcraft (Interest Check and Pilot)
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2018, 12:41:27 am »
Quote
@idgo Very unconventional - Before reading your post I wouldn't necessarily consider something like this a sigil, but seeing your submission has changed my mind. I dig the simplicity, which I'm afraid is the exact opposite of the piece I made. Honestly my favorite thing about it is the 2d readings you mention - I'm able to hold both the 3d and 2d perspectives in my mind at once with pretty good success, which certainly makes it more powerful IMO.

Thanks! I view sigils as resembling words, sentences, or paragraphs in function. As with language, there's a lot of leeway to choose whether to put a sigil's details in the things you're supposed to already know about it (you just have to know that the letter "I" is also the word I and refers to the Self of the speaker as well as the roman numeral for 1), versus the things it holds itself ("footstool" is a stool for your feet because of course it is). Words and letters used more commonly do well to be easy to write or draw accurately, or else they will get simplified into easier-to-replicate shapes with over-use. Check out the alleged history of the alphabet we're using right now, such as https://i.redd.it/43smwrr9h5j11.jpg, for an example.

I personally prefer a World sigil to fall near the easy-to-draw end of that spectrum, because I would expect to often use it as a component of larger works (I'd use it as a subset of a sigil for "world peace" or "world travel" or "seeing the world through someone else's eyes"), so a burdensomely complex "world" symbol would not suit my needs at all.

As for the sense of "looking like a sigil" -- my view of what "looks like sigils" is formed in large part by runes and alphabets, and in smaller part by Chaos magic. For instance, Ellis (https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Ellis_(sigil).html) is super simple, because it just means "this place is linked"... whereas Fotamecus (https://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chaos/texts/fotamec.jpg) is a bit more complex.

A lot of the more ornate sigils in this thread read more to my eye like a summoning circle or full ritual -- an amalgam of extant sub-sigils, as it were. My reservations about using such an explicitly spelled-out "program" for World in my own work are twofold:
  • First, the aforementioned difficulty in consistent and accurate reproduction of the sigil, especially when drawn small or as part of a larger piece.
  • Second, I fear that spelling out everything which World is within the sigil is quite limiting: If I put each of my thoughts about World as a separate part of the sigil, then learn a new thought about World, where does the representation of that new thought go? Does it have to be a second-class part of World, compared to the ideas present at sigil creation time, when using that sigil? Or does the whole sigil have to be rewritten and redesigned to reflect the new understanding? I've rather lazily sidestepped the problem entirely by leaving mine's interpretations quite vague -- most of its meaning is tacked on to study of it, rather than intrinsic to the shape in the explicit way that a sub-sigil is.

However, for a practitioner who uses the act of drawing a sigil as a meditation on its meaning, other submissions in this thread would be vastly superior to mine! Mine is nigh impossible to draw "right" without guide lines that are subsequently erased, which is absolutely inappropriate for many ritual media.
If everything's imaginary, it's all the more important to speak clearly and precisely when communicating meaning is the goal. But English flows better with synonyms, so I may interchange:
External = Objective = Consensus = Outside World
Internal = Subjective = Personal Reality