Author Topic: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"  (Read 383 times)

Liu

Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« on: July 16, 2018, 07:57:25 pm »
So, since I wanna improve my relationship with some entities I feel drawn to, get over being an armchair magician and do some actual practice to find out myself whether occultism is just a bunch of bullshit or not, @Ásbjǫrn Óðinkárr recommended me 2 books, one of them "Evoking Eternity" by E. A. Koetting.
And I guess I might profit from keeping a kind of reading diary here, in the hopes of keeping track of my reactions to it and benefiting from any input other people here might give me on it. Also to get some accountability support to actually read it, do practices, and if not at least have to come up with good excuses as to why not. If anyone also reads it or has done so and wants to add their impression, that is fine by me, too.
(If this should be moved to another sub-forum (Reading, Journals,...) then just do so, admins.)

I now have read the introduction and first chapter (and part of the second), and they feel quite like an opinion piece thus far. Not much useable recommendations at this point. Sure, some of the things he brings up might help at later points, but with only the things provided thus far I have no way to actually check their usefulness or reliability, and I remember having encountered the opposite opinion of pretty much anything he claims before.

For example, he suggests to delve into anything one can find about the entity one wants to evoke and get mentally obsessed with it and the religion it belongs to as best one can in order to develop a connection with it even before one attempts any evocation of it.
For one, so far I quite prefer to do my rituals whenever I feel in the mood of doing them, so preparing for them days/weeks in advance would mean quite a change to my approach.
And also, yeah, my skepticism kicking in again, but how are you to be without expectations about e.g. which shape an entity would take, if you have read everything ever written about it?
But I see also quite a few benefits of the approach, so not throwing that out of the window. And I might also want to keep some of the methods in mind he describes for developing that connection beforehand.

Or the claim that entities would depend on the practitioners connection to them in order to manifest. Who knows, but I know that I have also heard the opposite before.

And especially his approach of evocation as causing spirits to do one's bidding doesn't click with me at all. Sure there are things that I want and I would be glad if spirits would help me with some of them, but I really don't feel like ordering around any entity.

What I do like is his explanation of the effect that traditional ritual openings like the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram are to have on one's mindset and how one should rather find out what works for bringing one into that intended mindset instead of just doing something for the sake of being told that it's necessary. I mean, I have tried some of those before and while I learnt a bit about myself from my psychological reactions to them, those were certainly not the ones what they were intended to cause. Well, hoping to find a method that does work for me...

I also like his balanced elaboration on the benefits and disadvantages of banishing, and that he didn't really treat it as banishing the entity but rather as dispersing the energies it left. In my past tries I hardly ever banished anything (well, those were rather invocations or rites of devotion anyway), but I can understand his explanation why in some situations one might want to do a banishing.

Ave Lucifugus

  • Guest
Re: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2018, 05:06:34 pm »
Hey, glad you picked up the book. I'm sure you'll like it by the time you finish reading it. There are two things I must tell you, though:

1. Make sure you read the entire book and perform at least 3-5 evocations before casting judgement. Why that many? Because the first few time will feel very awkward for you, and you may very well get vague results. Which is absolutely normal. Once you get into the mindset and remember what you need to do, you'll get much more concrete results.

Although I do not recommend getting into evocation without first knowing how to enter trance state and opening your astral senses.

2. Reading as much as you can on the entity is not absolutely necessary. I have a more unorthodox approach. I evoke first, then research later and compare notes. That said, you need to have some rudimentary knowledge of the entity just so you would know what to watch out for, and what the entity can do.

EA's advice may seem contradictory, but it is very solid for beginners, and I recommend it. To be without expectations having read so much on the entity means this: "Alright, the entity sometimes appears like that and does that, but my experience may differ." Having this mindset, instead of "Ok now I'm going to evoke so and so, and I'm going to see (insert appearance/form."

And pardon me for being so presumptuous, but you strike me as someone who overthinks often. You shouldn't do that. Especially not when it comes to evocation. Complicated as it's described, perhaps, it's actually a lot simpler once you understand what's going on ,what purpose particular elements serve, and how to enter a proper summoner mindstate, as I like to call it (having overblown confidence that you can summon anything and exert your will upon the world).

Ave Lucifugus

  • Guest
Re: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2018, 05:15:00 pm »
@Liu Oh, man, I totally forgot about this. If you need some convincing about magick, but don't want to jump into evocation straight away, here's an extremely simple yet convincing way to do that:

https://www.becomealivinggod.com/newsletter/how-to-start-using-spirit-sigils-to-get-anything-you-want.html

Make sure you write down your results in a journal. Every time you think it's a coincidence, go back and re-read your journal entries.

Kapalika

Re: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2018, 07:26:46 pm »
" if not at least have to come up with good excuses as to why not. "
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SHH! Stop reading from my play book :p

No, but seriously, to add something of value, about you saying about planning rituals vs doing it when you feel like it, I have found in the past that setting a date or time, planning it days or weeks in advance, is the best approach. Maybe it's just due to how my brain ticks but I'll have a moment every day that I obsess over tuning or perfecting the ritual draft until the time comes. If I don't plan things, it comes out half assed or I get stuck in a rut (like the one I'm in now) of not doing much magic.

Doing it when you feel like it, in my experience, leads to not doing as much. Yes, there will be spontanious powerful moments of doing magic, but if you are putting days into it, the intention builds over time. Slow and steady, so to speak. It also will help you feel like it, be into it when the time comes.

That's my input anyway.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 07:28:59 pm by Kapalika »
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Trika via Vāmācāra

"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Ave Lucifugus

  • Guest
Re: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2018, 07:45:21 pm »
No, but seriously, to add something of value, about you saying about planning rituals vs doing it when you feel like it, I have found in the past that setting a date or time, planning it days or weeks in advance, is the best approach. Maybe it's just due to how my brain ticks but I'll have a moment every day that I obsess over tuning or perfecting the ritual draft until the time comes. If I don't plan things, it comes out half assed or I get stuck in a rut (like the one I'm in now) of not doing much magic.

Doing it when you feel like it, in my experience, leads to not doing as much. Yes, there will be spontanious powerful moments of doing magic, but if you are putting days into it, the intention builds over time. Slow and steady, so to speak. It also will help you feel like it, be into it when the time comes.

That's my input anyway.

Agreed. There are both psychological and magickal reasons as to why planning ahead and good preparation leads to better results. I'm a pretty spontaneous person in real life, and thought that doing rituals whenever would be optimal for me, but I was wrong. When I plan ahead, I get much more intense results and everything flows so smoothly.


Liu

Re: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2018, 08:21:18 pm »
Thanks for the input!

1. Make sure you read the entire book and perform at least 3-5 evocations before casting judgement.
Yeah, that's the plan.
Quote
Why that many? Because the first few time will feel very awkward for you, and you may very well get vague results. Which is absolutely normal. Once you get into the mindset and remember what you need to do, you'll get much more concrete results.
Certainly felt awkward enough sometimes with some other kinds of magick that I tried out in the past.
Especially when it comes to saying things out loud. Hoping that my paranoia that neighbours could hear me doesn't get too strong (I live in a shared apartment and the walls here are thin, but not that thin, so my worry is mostly unfounded). Hell, I guess I might just need to do language practice out loud more often so I get used to the idea of people hearing me utter strange stuff ^^

Quote
2. Reading as much as you can on the entity is not absolutely necessary. I have a more unorthodox approach. I evoke first, then research later and compare notes. That said, you need to have some rudimentary knowledge of the entity just so you would know what to watch out for, and what the entity can do.
I would guess once one is experienced enough to have the confidence that it will also work without much preparation that is a good idea. But I agree that for a beginner, in order to feel emotionally connected to the entity in question beforehand, doing that kind of research seems like a good support.

Quote
And pardon me for being so presumptuous, but you strike me as someone who overthinks often. You shouldn't do that. Especially not when it comes to evocation. Complicated as it's described, perhaps, it's actually a lot simpler once you understand what's going on ,what purpose particular elements serve, and how to enter a proper summoner mindstate, as I like to call it (having overblown confidence that you can summon anything and exert your will upon the world).
No problem, you aren't the first one to tell me that I tend to overthink ^^ I need to spend more time doing than thinking about how to do anyway.

@Liu Oh, man, I totally forgot about this. If you need some convincing about magick, but don't want to jump into evocation straight away, here's an extremely simple yet convincing way to do that:

https://www.becomealivinggod.com/newsletter/how-to-start-using-spirit-sigils-to-get-anything-you-want.html

Make sure you write down your results in a journal. Every time you think it's a coincidence, go back and re-read your journal entries.
Sounds like a good method, I might try it, thanks!
It's been a while but I have done sigil magick a couple times (the kind where the sigil stands for the goal one wants to achieve and not for an entity, although I did sometimes address an entity with it), and I have the impression that the method linked would be a good combination of these approaches.
I already use a journal for my tarot readings (and as dream diary and for some goalsetting-related stuff) so I'll make sure to also include other workings in there - I used the journal for a variety of other things in the past which had lead me to be quite negligent about writing done workings since I reasoned I wouldn't find the entries again anyway.

No, but seriously, to add something of value, about you saying about planning rituals vs doing it when you feel like it, I have found in the past that setting a date or time, planning it days or weeks in advance, is the best approach. Maybe it's just due to how my brain ticks but I'll have a moment every day that I obsess over tuning or perfecting the ritual draft until the time comes. If I don't plan things, it comes out half assed or I get stuck in a rut (like the one I'm in now) of not doing much magic.

Doing it when you feel like it, in my experience, leads to not doing as much. Yes, there will be spontanious powerful moments of doing magic, but if you are putting days into it, the intention builds over time. Slow and steady, so to speak. It also will help you feel like it, be into it when the time comes.

That's my input anyway.
The kinds of rituals which I tend to do spontaneously are those where I want to gather ideas about something and then simply write down whatever comes to mind. So they kinda are planned in advance but when exactly I do them is open to when I feel like now is a good time to sit down for it.

Or, some health-related rituals I did simply then when I was ill, no sense in too long planning.

For more longtime goals, and for getting into the practice in general, I agree that planning ahead will often be preferable.

Ave Lucifugus

  • Guest
Re: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2018, 08:33:27 pm »
Do let us know of your results with spirit sigil magic! Just make sure you use veritable sigils from an old grimoire. Avoid Dukante / demonolatry sigils as much as you can. Here are some grimoires from which you can obtain sigils / seals / signatures:

Grimorium Verum
Le Veritable Dragon Noir / Black Dragon <-- can be found in Crossed Keys, Scarlet Imprint
Lemegeton / Lesser Key of Solomon / Ars Goetia
The Grand Grimoire (spirit signatures)
Heptameron

It should be enough. Pick whatever you like. But make sure you read about the entity before using its sigil to get what you want. If you want my personal recommendation, here's a list of spirits you can try out:

King Paimon (Ars Goetia / Lemegeton)
Sallos (Ars Goetia / Lemegeton)
Clauneck (Grimorium Verum)
Lucifer (Grimorium Verum)
Frimost (Grimorium Verum)


The first three have specific specialties, whereas Lucifer can do pretty much anything you want. If you have an appreciation for Lucifer as a deity, then choose him. Pick a sigil of a spirit you feel drawn to the most. <-- that last bit is very important to keep in mind.

NEMO 93

Re: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2018, 06:20:45 am »
Sounds like that book is giving directions for invoking, not evoking. Invoking it is quite advisable to become obsessed to draw closer to the diety as well as know what to look for synchronicities. One should be in control of evocation and I would find obsession should be discouraged, both before and after the actual ritual.

Any expiriment should be performed multiple times, including occult ones, but I found my first ritual with Goetia completely awesome and worked without a doubt. Everyone's different.

I would recommend the Crowley/DuQuette version of the Goetia. There's valuable correlations to astrology and tarot that are great help in figuring a entities personality and effects.

I'd recommend the Scarlet Imprint True Grimoire and Crossed Keys instead of the traditional Grimorium Verum and Black Dragon.

I'd also recommend King Paimin as long as he suits your needs, he's been great to work with.

Ave Lucifugus

  • Guest
Re: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2018, 07:14:01 am »
Sounds like that book is giving directions for invoking, not evoking. Invoking it is quite advisable to become obsessed to draw closer to the diety as well as know what to look for synchronicities. One should be in control of evocation and I would find obsession should be discouraged, both before and after the actual ritual.

Any expiriment should be performed multiple times, including occult ones, but I found my first ritual with Goetia completely awesome and worked without a doubt. Everyone's different.

I would recommend the Crowley/DuQuette version of the Goetia. There's valuable correlations to astrology and tarot that are great help in figuring a entities personality and effects.

I'd recommend the Scarlet Imprint True Grimoire and Crossed Keys instead of the traditional Grimorium Verum and Black Dragon.

I'd also recommend King Paimin as long as he suits your needs, he's been great to work with.

What gave you the impression that the author is talking about invocation? Bear in mind that Liu has only read the first chapter. Each chapter describes a different step of evocation.

Liu

Re: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2018, 07:19:46 pm »
So, I finally continued reading.
Work has been crazy recently, and I also seem to have some health problems, or at least I need much more sleep than should be reasonable, so I didn't really have that much free-time, and what I had I used for hobbies or, being tired and therefore with less resolve, I ended up wasting it aimlessly surfing the web. But today I at least finished the 2nd chapter and started with the 3rd.
The 2nd chapter is basically a short encyclopedia of the various kinds of spirits one might want to work with. Not sure whether that is the proper place for that as one can't really do much with that information if one reads that chapter before the rest of the book and has no knowledge from other sources, and I had heard of most of the mentioned ones before. But well, read through it nevertheless.

The 3rd chapter sounds quite promising and I look forward to continue reading. It's titled "preliminary exercises".

The book recommends finding a room to use as a ritual chamber.
Does any of you think that's important? Because I live in a shared appartment and I literally only have one single room, even if quite a large one.
Well, I could use the attic or basement or something, but I can't guarantee that no one will go there.

I guess for now I'll simple use the space in front of my altar and try out the suggested visualization exercise there. Sounds not entirely new to me, but similar in parts to some stuff we did in an autogenic training course I attended a few years ago, and also to some guided meditations I listened to in the past, but it's been a while and I quite rarely did those kinds of visualizations fully on my own, and some elements are completely different.
I guess I'll first need to write some kind of summary of it to use as a crib sheet. Will report back once I either continued reading or practiced the exercises a couple times.

Olive

Re: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2018, 07:30:42 pm »
The book recommends finding a room to use as a ritual chamber.
Does any of you think that's important? Because I live in a shared appartment and I literally only have one single room, even if quite a large one.
Well, I could use the attic or basement or something, but I can't guarantee that no one will go there.

I guess for now I'll simple use the space in front of my altar and try out the suggested visualization exercise there.

I personally do have a ritual chamber as a room to itself. I don't think it is absolutely required, but I find it extremely helpful. The room is filled with magical mementos, my books, my writings, my cards, my ritual tools, and wax medallions from rituals performed under the full moon through many cycles. I create a spread of whatever combinations I want to work with at that time and conduct the whole thing from my meditation cushion, facing my spread and a veiled window. This isn't evocation specific, but it feels like a perpetually hallowed place, especially alongside my frequent banishing/purification and with my blessed amulet around my neck.

I think if you were to enter this room, you would immediately notice some kind of frequency at the least. That being said, this isn't where I perform all of my workings. I have several sacred places I have prepared outside in different locations. If you have any forests or parks nearby where you think you could find solitude, you can start working there. Leave little natural totems and marks behind over time as you sanctify the place and over time you'll have an open-air ritual chamber. I've also done some pretty effective stuff just by using a go-bag of ceremonial materials prepared beforehand. Perhaps whatever you need to cast a circle, a candle, some smudging materials, and a mirror or another magical tool you want to use.

Just keep in mind that what I'm talking about is not magic itself, but it does constitute a kind of preliminary work. Consciously creating your setting and imbuing it with intention does have a very positive effect when it comes to entering a conducive mentality. Keep us updated on what you think of the rest of the book! I'm juggling many texts right now, but I'm always willing to throw another in.  ;)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 07:32:18 pm by Olive »
    Art thou pale for weariness
Of climbing heaven, and gazing on the earth,
     Wandering companionless
Among the stars that have a different birth, -
And ever-changing, like a joyless eye
That finds no object worth its constancy?

-Percy Bysshe Shelley

pi_rameses

Re: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2018, 10:58:13 pm »
I agree with @Olive. The chamber serves as a separation of concerns from the mundane but also to focus your mind. Once the habit is formed, you almost get in a mode of wanting to accomplish great works upon approaching the chamber. It’s not necessary if you don’t have the space but very effective. A quiet place outside is a great idea.

In the past, certain Gnostics had a ritual of the mirrored bridal chamber wherein they would stare into a dark bowl of water in a dark room. This could be a cavern or a tunnel. It seems to me to work like the scrying mirror. If you have room the size of a bowl (in an indoor or outdoor setting), that is more or less a ritual chamber. As the bowl of water reflects your countenance, likewise does a chamber.

More info on that here:
http://www.themirroredbridalchamber.com
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 11:04:33 pm by pi_rameses »
Master Willem was right. Evolution without courage will be the ruin of our race.
-Lawrence

Liu

Re: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2018, 08:05:39 pm »
Thanks for the replies! I quite understand the psychological concerns you bring up.
I had guessed it might be something like that, but I wasn't sure whether it would actually be something where people actually notice the difference.

So I figure the important thing is finding some method of getting into the proper mindset. I'll keep that in mind, perhaps I'll find a different way for that.

I personally do have a ritual chamber as a room to itself. I don't think it is absolutely required, but I find it extremely helpful. The room is filled with magical mementos, my books, my writings, my cards, my ritual tools, and wax medallions from rituals performed under the full moon through many cycles. I create a spread of whatever combinations I want to work with at that time and conduct the whole thing from my meditation cushion, facing my spread and a veiled window.
I basically use my room for these purposes already, so since I also use it for any other kind of purpose it's less special in a way.

Quote
If you have any forests or parks nearby where you think you could find solitude, you can start working there. Leave little natural totems and marks behind over time as you sanctify the place and over time you'll have an open-air ritual chamber. I've also done some pretty effective stuff just by using a go-bag of ceremonial materials prepared beforehand. Perhaps whatever you need to cast a circle, a candle, some smudging materials, and a mirror or another magical tool you want to use.
There is a lot of nature here but I haven't been to the forests and parks here often enough to see how much solitude is there to find actually (only moved to this city a couple months ago) and they are still quite a bit away from my apartment - public places nearby do feel very public.

In the past, certain Gnostics had a ritual of the mirrored bridal chamber wherein they would stare into a dark bowl of water in a dark room. This could be a cavern or a tunnel. It seems to me to work like the scrying mirror. If you have room the size of a bowl (in an indoor or outdoor setting), that is more or less a ritual chamber. As the bowl of water reflects your countenance, likewise does a chamber.

More info on that here:
http://www.themirroredbridalchamber.com
I heard of using water as a scrying mirror before, but I haven't used any scrying mirror method such far.

NEMO 93

Re: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2018, 09:00:02 pm »
WHat give me the impression of evocation is:

"For example, he suggests to delve into anything one can find about the entity one wants to evoke and get mentally obsessed with it and the religion it belongs to as best one can in order to develop a connection with it even before one attempts any evocation of it."

Perhaps it could be important to paradigm shift to the religion it's self but becomg obsessed with a demon or elemental is bad occultism 101.

I know people have their problems with popular methods of evocation being rooted in hermeticism but here's the thing you have three approaches possible: one hermiticism(in which elementals and demons are to be ordered around), chaos magic(in which you approach the system however the hell you want as long as you unerstand the basic tech), or full paradigm shift(in which you approach the entity from the system/religin it is derived from- in which case, most would advise against worship of them. It would either resort back to the hermetic view or as a kind of co-existence.) If you want to go to a Satanic approach of evocation, there as classic grimoire approaches to this as well and they don't even advise obsession and worship of these spirits.

The benefit to evocation is that it reduces the need for obsession needed in invocation. Invocation is for God forms, which you will want to be respect or even worshipful towards. Basic elemental invocations, they're quite literally below us in the spiritual heirarchy. Basic elemental of the hermetic view is quite different from other nature spirits such as fairies or wights or anyhting else btw. Demonic evocation requires respect but it also requires control. If don't have to say christian threats but you do want the confidence that you're in control of this deal which leads to a mutual repsect. Becoming obsessed with the demon lead to a loss of control, and treating them more like a god, which is a slow form of invocation. There's no need to become a Lovecraftian protagonist over something as simple as Goetia.

NEMO 93

Re: Reading Koetting's "Evoking Eternity"
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2018, 09:04:03 pm »
And on note as approaching if demons as if they were forgotten gods to the paradigm shift approach, then do that and throw the demonology book away. If it's like Baal, there's enough information to actually invoke Baal the God instead of the demon. If there's not enough information available to that, then there's not enough information to say the Demon is derived from a former God. And I'd also note that derived does not mean equivalent to. Now, once you've gotten the basics of evocation and you can definitely expiriment and investigate for yourself and alter it how you need and see the links, which goes more to chaos magic approach, which goes back to understanding the basics of the tech.