Author Topic: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?  (Read 3725 times)

Etu Malku

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2019, 03:12:17 pm »
I don't see God and Satan as polar opposites at all...etc.
Nice summary but there was nothing new for me. I've read extensively on the subject: scholarly studies, views of various sects and philosophies etc.
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If you allow your Satanism to be defined by the Abrahamic faiths, then Satan is the embodiment of all that is evil in the world, and thus it would be a mistake to embrace Satan.
I've done precisely that. Don't lose your sleep over it, though.
Personally, I don't care what you choose to believe, there is no need to be condescending towards anyone here. Your brand of Satanism doesn't seem like any Satanism or LHP that I have come across. The philosophy makes no sense, either that or you are not presenting it to us successfully.  :huh:
IAMTHATIAMNOT

pseustes

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2019, 03:46:17 pm »
Ok, I need to tone down. I'm not trying to promote anything. My primary interest is what you guys are talking about here.

Inlustratus

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2019, 09:10:39 pm »
A slave can be with his/her master. What the bleep you are aiming at?

Are you sure you know what a slave is? I'm saying that you're completely contradictory.
*scary satanic text*

pseustes

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2019, 07:45:47 am »
Are you sure you know what a slave is? I'm saying that you're completely contradictory.

A slave is bound to his/her master and obey him. Certainly Satan is not my friend or benefactor but being with him/her/it gives me a sense of purpose and meaning. I want that kind of purpose. I prefer purpose to comfort or acceptance.

But I'm not to going to explain much further. Take e.g. a copy of New Testament. There you find a description of a Satan I worship. Not an entirely satisfactory description but close enough.

You are not going to get from me a thesis on Theistic Satanism, ordine geometrico demonstrata Spinoza-style. That's not my mission here or anywhere.

Etu Malku

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2019, 09:33:15 pm »
Are you sure you know what a slave is? I'm saying that you're completely contradictory.

A slave is bound to his/her master and obey him. Certainly Satan is not my friend or benefactor but being with him/her/it gives me a sense of purpose and meaning. I want that kind of purpose. I prefer purpose to comfort or acceptance.

But I'm not to going to explain much further. Take e.g. a copy of New Testament. There you find a description of a Satan I worship. Not an entirely satisfactory description but close enough.

You are not going to get from me a thesis on Theistic Satanism, ordine geometrico demonstrata Spinoza-style. That's not my mission here or anywhere.
No, a slave has their Will taken away from them, this is exactly the opposite of what Satanism is about. Satanism and Satan are about the exaltation of the Will not the oppression/suppression of it.
IAMTHATIAMNOT

pseustes

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #50 on: July 02, 2019, 10:21:08 am »
Satanism and Satan are about the exaltation of the Will not the oppression/suppression of it.
You are probably talking about LaVeyanism or something similar which is one form of  the cult of empowerment. LaVeyanism is Nietzsche lite. I love the poetry of Nietzsche's philosophy but he was just another prophet of empowerment.

It has nothing to do with real Satan.

Inlustratus

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2019, 11:43:51 am »
It has nothing to do with real Satan.

Then what compels you to your way of Satanism?
*scary satanic text*

pseustes

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2019, 05:06:18 pm »
Then what compels you to your way of Satanism?
  • I've already stated what compels me from a philosophical/religious point of view. A profound sense of purpose.
  • My belief has a strong supernatural component.
This latter point I'm not going to elaborate because I strongly suspect I will get as a response lazy one liners like 'prove it', 'you are insane' etc. For over twenty years I've confronted this kind of criticism.

Should you continue asking for more precise answers I demand that you give us the readers of this forum a complete set of logical propositions, inherently without contradictions, that describe your system of beliefs.

Now, I find it preposterous that on a forum dedicated to LHP these kinds of justifications are required but let's have it since it seems so important to you. It would not only be educational but fair.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 05:14:03 pm by pseustes »

Inlustratus

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2019, 05:22:32 pm »
aight
*scary satanic text*

Liu

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2019, 10:29:13 pm »
A slave is bound to his/her master and obey him. Certainly Satan is not my friend or benefactor but being with him/her/it gives me a sense of purpose and meaning. I want that kind of purpose. I prefer purpose to comfort or acceptance.

But I'm not to going to explain much further. Take e.g. a copy of New Testament. There you find a description of a Satan I worship. Not an entirely satisfactory description but close enough.

You are not going to get from me a thesis on Theistic Satanism, ordine geometrico demonstrata Spinoza-style. That's not my mission here or anywhere.

Since I also enjoy the psychological benefits of considering myself a slave of the devil, I can relate to what you are saying at least to some degree.

However, I don't base my concept of my deity primarily on scripture, especially not on the bible, most of which I have never read.
The few parts in the new testament that seem to refer to Satan or are often interpreted as such hardly amount to much information in any case.

And purpose is far from the only thing I get from it.

By my metaphysics, everything is a manifestation of the devil, i.e. my will is its will anyway. By realizing and acknowledging that, it becomes easier for me to actually follow through with my will, both through the relaxation and euphoria I get from submission and since it can help me see things clearer.

No, a slave has their Will taken away from them, this is exactly the opposite of what Satanism is about. Satanism and Satan are about the exaltation of the Will not the oppression/suppression of it.

I know basically two definitions of slave, plus some metaphorically derived thereof: Either someone in a society with two or more levels with different amounts of human rights who belongs to one of the lower levels, or someone who willingly submits themselves to another person, most typically in the context of a sexual relationship.
Neither of these versions involves a full loss of the will. In the first version, the slave has to expect much more backlash for not doing as told than e.g. a modern employee, and is forbidden from a lot more things than people in modern western society. But that does not mean they would be completely without will. In the second version, from my impression at least, it is actually often the sub who has more control over the details of the relationship.

I would rather describe my self-enslavement to the devil in the terms of the second version, albeit there are obviously differences. I've also encountered some other Satanists online who also describe their spirituality in such terms.

It has nothing to do with real Satan.

Then what compels you to your way of Satanism?
I think there was a misunderstanding - it seems to me that pseustes was not referring to their own beliefs but to Laveyan Satanism with this sentence.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 10:45:17 pm by Liu »

Etu Malku

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2019, 10:09:03 am »
No, a slave has their Will taken away from them, this is exactly the opposite of what Satanism is about. Satanism and Satan are about the exaltation of the Will not the oppression/suppression of it.

I know basically two definitions of slave, plus some metaphorically derived thereof: Either someone in a society with two or more levels with different amounts of human rights who belongs to one of the lower levels, or someone who willingly submits themselves to another person, most typically in the context of a sexual relationship.
Neither of these versions involves a full loss of the will. In the first version, the slave has to expect much more backlash for not doing as told than e.g. a modern employee, and is forbidden from a lot more things than people in modern western society. But that does not mean they would be completely without will. In the second version, from my impression at least, it is actually often the sub who has more control over the details of the relationship.

I would rather describe my self-enslavement to the devil in the terms of the second version, albeit there are obviously differences. I've also encountered some other Satanists online who also describe their spirituality in such terms.
When you have supplicated yourself to another, whether an individual or a community of some sort, you have surrendered your Will. This is 'enslavement'.

Theistic Satanism or spiritual Satanism is the umbrella term for religious beliefs that consider Satan as an objectively existing supernatural being or force worthy of supplication, with whom individuals may contact, convene and even praise, rather than him being just an archetype, symbol or idea.

The word 'Supplication' means the action of asking or begging for something earnestly or humbly", it deserves attention from the definition in that this is a key difference between Theistic and non-Theistic Satanism. Non-Theistic Satanism/Luciferianism has no supplication involved, does not believe in deities other than archetypal structures, or symbols.

The Prince of Darkness archetype is an Adversary and a trans‑cultural archetype existing long before Judaism and Christianity. Psychologically speaking, the Adversary is our Shadow Self, that which opposes and challenges us, when confronted by it, one either becomes consumed by it or one becomes stronger because of it. Satanism in this respect is about living one's life to best benefit one's self. Therefore indulgence can be sought but not to the point where it is detrimental to one's life.

Non-theistic Satanism is a true Left Hand Path in that this Satanism emphasized the power of the individual and does not focus on what is best for the 'herd'. Non-theistic Satanic adherents see the character of Satan as an archetype of pride, carnality, liberty, enlightenment, undefiled wisdom, and of a cosmos which is perceived to be motivated by a dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things.

IAMTHATIAMNOT

Liu

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2019, 11:55:49 am »


When you have supplicated yourself to another, whether an individual or a community of some sort, you have surrendered your Will. This is 'enslavement'.
Being a slave does not necessarily mean fully submitting, though.
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The word 'Supplication' means the action of asking or begging for something earnestly or humbly", it deserves attention from the definition in that this is a key difference between Theistic and non-Theistic Satanism.
If supplication means to ask for something, then that's not the same as submission.

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Theistic Satanism or spiritual Satanism is the umbrella term for religious beliefs that consider Satan as an objectively existing supernatural being or force worthy of supplication, with whom individuals may contact, convene and even praise, rather than him being just an archetype, symbol or idea.
...
 Non-Theistic Satanism/Luciferianism has no supplication involved, does not believe in deities other than archetypal structures, or symbols.
I mostly agree but there is theistic Satanism without supplication, and non-theistic Satanism with supplication.

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The Prince of Darkness archetype is an Adversary and a trans‑cultural archetype existing long before Judaism and Christianity. Psychologically speaking, the Adversary is our Shadow Self, that which opposes and challenges us, when confronted by it, one either becomes consumed by it or one becomes stronger because of it. Satanism in this respect is about living one's life to best benefit one's self. Therefore indulgence can be sought but not to the point where it is detrimental to one's life.

Satan isn't only the shadow self, but that's certainly an important aspect of it.

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Non-theistic Satanism is a true Left Hand Path in that this Satanism emphasized the power of the individual and does not focus on what is best for the 'herd'. Non-theistic Satanic adherents see the character of Satan as an archetype of pride, carnality, liberty, enlightenment, undefiled wisdom, and of a cosmos which is perceived to be motivated by a dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things.

Sounds close enough to my own beliefs. I like to personify this force and to submit myself to it, though.

Myhla

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2019, 03:42:26 pm »
But I'm not to going to explain much further. Take e.g. a copy of New Testament. There you find a description of a Satan I worship. Not an entirely satisfactory description but close enough.

If I may (and mostly for the simple reason that it hasn't been brought up yet, unless I missed it), it would appear that Pseustes subscribes to a form of 'reverse-Christian duotheism,' a small (but valid) sub-genre within Theistic Satanism.

Although I don't subscribe to it myself, coming from a Christian background, there were times when I leaned more in that direction (some years ago), so it doesn't seem so foreign to me I guess. I offer this merely as an attempt at clarification, lest the convo become unbalanced.

One can still find reference to it here and there, but there isn't very much available information online, from what I can tell. Maybe someone could correct me on that if necessary.

pseustes

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2019, 08:24:22 pm »
If I may (and mostly for the simple reason that it hasn't been brought up yet, unless I missed it), it would appear that Pseustes subscribes to a form of 'reverse-Christian duotheism,' a small (but valid) sub-genre within Theistic Satanism.
You are correct although reverse-Abrahamic could be a useful characterization, too (minus the notion that Satan used to be God's little helper).

Myhla

Re: Would you follow a Satan similar to the one from christian mythos?
« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2019, 08:38:40 pm »
You are correct although reverse-Abrahamic could be a useful characterization, too (minus the notion that Satan used to be God's little helper).

Absolutely, completely feel you. Was just for lack of a better term at the moment.

You know, I'm just throwing it out there, but perhaps the forum could benefit from an actual "child-thread" about the reverse-Christian duotheistic position, in order to enhance awareness. Even if it amounts to an articulation of your own beliefs and practices, perhaps others could benefit or be otherwise made aware of details involved in such a position.

Just my opinion, I actually have nothing against (and probably at least a few things in common) with such a view/understanding.