Author Topic: A bit of heresy on "nothing is true, everything is permitted"  (Read 659 times)

NEMO 93

A bit of heresy on "nothing is true, everything is permitted"
« on: February 22, 2018, 01:19:13 am »
It's a nice maxim, and I really like it but people ignore it's source. It was originally in the novel Alumat used by Hasan to form the hasashin and control them.

In the book he is quoted as saying "a powerful and immutable plan was born in me, the likes which the world had never seen. To test human blindness to its utmost limits! To use it to attain absolute power and independence from the whole world! To embody the fairy tale! To turn it into such reality that our remotest descendants would talk about it! To conduct a great experiment on man!"

I can definitely see how the themes can support the modern interpretation of it in someway but it's a bit ironic that a quote by a character who wishes to control people with religion is used for spiritual freedom.

pi_rameses

Re: A bit of heresy on "nothing is true, everything is permitted"
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2018, 04:59:36 am »
Very astute observation @King Mob. I commend you.
Pro omnis dominos viae sinistra, sic itur ad astra

NEMO 93

Re: A bit of heresy on "nothing is true, everything is permitted"
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2018, 07:22:09 am »
I can't believe I missed the biggest flaw.

As Albert Camus points out, to say that nothing is true would imply that the statement "nothing is true" is a falsehood. Therefore there must be some statements that are truthhoods.

Frater V.I.M.

Re: A bit of heresy on "nothing is true, everything is permitted"
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2018, 12:41:20 am »
It's pretty damn nuts that the origins of that phrase aren't more well-known. I never knew where it was from. Honestly, I almost feel kind of betrayed by folks like John Allee (Lord Egan) who were fond of shouting that maxim from the mountaintops . . . . but always declined to mention where it was from.

And ya know, on a real serious note, the phrase is totally bullshit. And most of the people who fling the phrase around know it, even if only on a subconscious level. Many of the people who say that obviously don't really MEAN it. Obvious example I've seen a million times over: an individual constantly insists that truth is ENTIRELY relative, and demands that nobody ever criticize any weird thing they say/believe because "nobody knows anything," "there is no truth," etc etc, then the exact same individual resorts to logical arguments based on "truths" when confronted with any questions about why they aren't a Christian, or why they think the earth isn't 6,000 years old. So, one can KNOW the earth is older than 6,000 years, one can KNOW that virgins don't give birth, etc, etc, BUT, Lawd forbid that anyone ever tells them that anything THEY believe goes against history, logic, science, etc.

Can't have it both ways. Either truth is real, and therefore there are grounds to ridicule and dismiss certain beliefs, or truth isn't real, and therefore, there's no grounds to dismiss or ridicule anything at all whatsoever. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
"Let it be known that every man who delves into the arts of darkness must give the Devil and His children the due their years of infamy deserve. Satan’s Name will not be denied! Let no man shun or mock His Name who plays His winning game or despair, depletion, and destruction await!”
- Anton LaVey, 1970

NEMO 93

Re: A bit of heresy on "nothing is true, everything is permitted"
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2018, 05:56:55 am »
@Frater V.I.M. I like the amendment that Peter J. Carrol made to the phrase: "Nothing has absolute truth, Everything Remains Possible."  :)

It allows for the truths that we can consensully agree are factual but takes into account the progressiveness of science among other things as they're constantly changing. Sure, gravity remains a universal constant here at planet earth but if you go to another planet, there's an entirely different gravity.

Sure, you can try to disprove the Bible as much as you want with facts but if no beliefs hold absolute truth, working with it in an occult sense still remains possible as there's no more proof for chaos magic, setianism, norse mythology hinduism etc than there is for the bible. Any attempt to explain why this is ends up in: chaos magic(already covered lack of proof), astral and egregores(lack of proof), jungian psychoanalysis(which incredibly useful and more scientific then the other few, Jung's sometime seen as less academic with less proof than others his work is more useful to therapists who cater to an individual approach and realize science can't determine everything about a human.)

So- nothing has absolute truth thus everything remains possible because it implies some grain of truth may be in a lot of things.   :)

Deidre

Re: A bit of heresy on "nothing is true, everything is permitted"
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2018, 06:04:38 pm »
If you believe something long enough to where it literally changes your life, would that be a subjective or objective truth? It would be someone's objective truth to them, or would it solely be subjective?
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

NEMO 93

Re: A bit of heresy on "nothing is true, everything is permitted"
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2018, 08:02:05 pm »
@Deidre  It would be a subective truth but that wouldn't make it any less real.

Objective truth would be stuff we can prove such as science.

Personal subjective truth would be branches of philosophy, religion, and various beliefs. However, I personally feel that term subjective truth means they can be just as valuable as objective truth. I like to think of it was viewing objective truth through your own personal lens, in a way.

pi_rameses

Re: A bit of heresy on "nothing is true, everything is permitted"
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2018, 08:31:05 pm »
If you believe something long enough to where it literally changes your life, would that be a subjective or objective truth? It would be someone's objective truth to them, or would it solely be subjective?

Yes. Subjective. The goal however is for changes in the subjective universe to translate in a proportional rate into the objective universe.
Pro omnis dominos viae sinistra, sic itur ad astra

Deidre

Re: A bit of heresy on "nothing is true, everything is permitted"
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2018, 08:37:33 pm »
If you believe something long enough to where it literally changes your life, would that be a subjective or objective truth? It would be someone's objective truth to them, or would it solely be subjective?

Yes. Subjective. The goal however is for changes in the subjective universe to translate in a proportional rate into the objective universe.
i like this but how to prove it to others? Hmm.
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

pi_rameses

Re: A bit of heresy on "nothing is true, everything is permitted"
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2018, 09:05:52 pm »
If you believe something long enough to where it literally changes your life, would that be a subjective or objective truth? It would be someone's objective truth to them, or would it solely be subjective?

Yes. Subjective. The goal however is for changes in the subjective universe to translate in a proportional rate into the objective universe.
i like this but how to prove it to others? Hmm.

Not sure if this constitutes as proof but take a look at a year's worth of journal entries paying careful attention to things that you declared to yourself before they had even come into reality. You won't find definitive proof as in a dataset that is statistically significant. Rather, instances of successes or failures. In my journal, I enumerated things that I scarcely thought I could achieve. And they happened as I described. There are a number of books that refer to this law as all sorts of names. The Secret. The Law of Attraction. Also you have to bring it down to the experience of that other person. Nothing you will say will convince them. They have to try it for themselves and experience it for it to have credence in their lives. Keep in mind that if the other person tries it without an open mind, then it's a guaranteed failure. A mind open to possibilities is best. The source that I used in formatting my journal was Uncle Setnakt's Guide to the LHP.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 09:13:38 pm by pi_rameses »
Pro omnis dominos viae sinistra, sic itur ad astra

Deidre

Re: A bit of heresy on "nothing is true, everything is permitted"
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2018, 09:25:21 pm »
If you believe something long enough to where it literally changes your life, would that be a subjective or objective truth? It would be someone's objective truth to them, or would it solely be subjective?

Yes. Subjective. The goal however is for changes in the subjective universe to translate in a proportional rate into the objective universe.
i like this but how to prove it to others? Hmm.

Not sure if this constitutes as proof but take a look at a year's worth of journal entries paying careful attention to things that you declared to yourself before they had even come into reality. You won't find definitive proof as in a dataset that is statistically significant. Rather, instances of successes or failures. In my journal, I enumerated things that I scarcely thought I could achieve. And they happened as I described. There are a number of books that refer to this law as all sorts of names. The Secret. The Law of Attraction. Also you have to bring it down to the experience of that other person. Nothing you will say will convince them. They have to try it for themselves and experience it for it to have credence in their lives. Keep in mind that if the other person tries it without an open mind, then it's a guaranteed failure. A mind open to possibilities is best. The source that I used in formatting my journal was Uncle Setnakt's Guide to the LHP.
Okay, you're right. I think that with anything, experience is what makes it verifiable. Real. TRUTH. When I was super religious, I felt that reading holy texts didn't make it real, it was how I felt, how it changed me, how it moved my life. If something doesn't really move your life, it's not objective, not even subjective. It's just wanting to believe in something that you don't. I think that there are many people who believe in so many things, but don't want to...and thus, it doesn't really take shape in their lives.
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

pi_rameses

Re: A bit of heresy on "nothing is true, everything is permitted"
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2018, 12:16:51 am »
I agree.
Pro omnis dominos viae sinistra, sic itur ad astra