Author Topic: Saturn as the original Sun...  (Read 451 times)

Xepera maSet

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Saturn as the original Sun...
« on: January 30, 2018, 12:06:09 am »
Hadn't heard about this before.

http://qdl.scs-inc.us/2ndParty/Pages/7285.html

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Here is a remarkable fact: though numerous figures of the Universal Monarch are translated conventionally as the "sun" god, the celestial power invoked by the world's first religions is not the body we call [the] sun today. In fact the star-worshippers specifically distinguished it from our Sun by calling it best sun, the primeval sun, the central sun.

https://www.maverickscience.com/the-saturn-myth/

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The so-called “Saturn Theory” originated with David Talbott who, in the mid-1970’s, began investigating clues that the planet Saturn formerly played a significant role in recent Earth history, a history hinted at in certain ancient mythological traditions.  A cornerstone of Talbott’s reasoning was the singular insight that myths of Creation reflected eyewitness accounts of extraordinary planetary cataclysms in the circumpolar sky. More specifically, Talbott concluded that the ancients’ collective testimony pointed to the former presence of a unique configuration of planets suspended over the Earth’s North Pole—a polar configuration, as it were—involving Saturn, Venus, and Mars (among other celestial bodies). Talbott’s researches eventually culminated in the groundbreaking book The Saturn Myth (Doubleday, 1980), which, in turn, inspired Dwardu Cardona and myself to launch similar studies. Cardona went on to publish numerous articles and a handful of voluminous works on the subject, arguing that various aspects of Earth-geology could only be explained by the near-presence of a giant body such as Saturn over the North Pole (see Primordial Star among other works).

http://saturniancosmology.org/intro.php

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What brought the Saturnian Polar Configuration to an end was an interaction with the planet Jupiter, which at that time orbited much closer to the Sun. Jupiter is massive -- it has more mass than all the rest of the planets of the Solar System together. Jupiter is also stable. With an enormous mass and rotating at a period of 9 hours today, it represents almost all of the rotational momentum of the Solar System. Jupiter would not budge. It tore the gas giant Saturn apart -- or so it looked from the vantage point of Earth.

This became the Egyptian tale of Osiris (Saturn) who was killed and dismembered by his evil brother Seth (Jupiter), his body parts strewn along the Nile river (the river of the zodiac, at that time already visibly cluttered with dust) and resurrected as Horus (Mars). The sister of Osiris, Isis (Venus), collected his body parts for burial and was instrumental in his resurrection as Horus. Other Middle Eastern sources have similar tales. St. Paul readily equated the death and resurrection of Christ with that of Osiris. Throughout all of the world (except initially in Egypt) Jupiter (the name translates as "youth" or "the younger") gains ascendancy to become the new primary god. In Egypt, Jupiter is identified first as Seth, the evil killer of Osiris, but later, and certainly by the time of the first spells of the Egyptian Book of the Dead, as Osiris himself.

"The Dragon became as a many-headed Serpent,
It's fiery tongues bearing forth speech
Into all the kingoms of the Earth."


My book, "Behold: the Prince of Darkness!": https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1726037460/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1726037460

Liu

Re: Saturn as the original Sun...
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2018, 11:17:39 am »
Mythologically/Astrologically it makes a lot of sense (and I actually heard some YTer mention something about Saturn's solar aspects 2 days ago).

Whether there is any astronomical truth to it, no idea.

Onyx

Re: Saturn as the original Sun...
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2018, 03:13:58 pm »
This is interesting, but I'm not sure about the idea that Jupiter tore Saturn apart, as Saturn is almost twice the distance from the Sun as Jupiter. The Sun has 1000 times more mass than Jupiter, but does it tear the Earth apart, or even Mercury for that matter?

I don't think it's logical that a few thousand years ago people saw Saturn being "torn apart". How could they see the resulting debris without a pretty advanced telescope? It's too far away.

The distances between planets is vast: if I put a quarter in the middle of a football field to represent the Sun, and a penny at the goal post to represent the Earth, we might have a rough concept of the expansiveness of the Solar System. Light itself takes around 8 minutes to reach the Earth so anytime we look at the Sun, we are looking into the recent past.

I think the distinction our ancestors made between stars and planets may have been the fact that planets appear to wander against the backdrop of outer space instead of moving in unison with it.

I can see the association of Set with Jupiter, since it is a very turbulent planet, but how would they have known that at the time? Where does that association originate from?

Liu

Re: Saturn as the original Sun...
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2018, 03:55:12 pm »
Also, I would rather have associated it with the myths of the older gods (Saturn, Kronos, Tiamat/Absu, Ymir, ...) being conquered by the next generation (Jupiter, Zeus, Enki/Marduk, Odhinn, ...), not with anything from Egyptian mythology.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 03:57:27 pm by Liu »

Xepera maSet

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Re: Saturn as the original Sun...
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2018, 04:11:14 pm »
On the science side, apparently this doesn't fit with our modern understanding of astrophysics, but rather with a different view known as the Electric Universe. This is an entirely different way of understanding the universe from what I can tell, and is supposed to solve problems like gravity or how suns can sustain themselves for so long. That type of thing is waaaaaaay beyond me, but I'll keep looking into it.

Honestly you can make mythology fit a lot of things if you are looking, which is why we don't tend to think myths describe one specific event. For example, we tend to no longer believe that the story of Horus and Set describes one conflict/war where the followers of Horus defeated the companions of Set, but rather that the story explained an aspect of reality that could manifest different ways, such as day v. night, tradition v. relvolution, or conscious v. subconscious.

"The Dragon became as a many-headed Serpent,
It's fiery tongues bearing forth speech
Into all the kingoms of the Earth."


My book, "Behold: the Prince of Darkness!": https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1726037460/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1726037460

Onyx

Re: Saturn as the original Sun...
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2018, 04:20:57 pm »
I've been meaning to try to wrap my brain around the Electric Universe theory, as I remain unconvinced about the Big Bang, which seems rather "creationist" in nature to me. I'll try make a post on that subject soon, thanks for bringing it up.