Author Topic: "I created the material universe so I could define myself." - Prince of Darkness  (Read 708 times)

Xepera maSet

I've always been of the impression that the universe and nature came to be out of sheer possibility. In an infinite chaos of infinite probability, eventually "nature" would form within it. If the chaos is outside time, this would literally be immediate, the two would always exist. I like how the Diabolicon illustrates it:

"And after uncounted ages of this great ferment, a force fused to focus that became God, and this force presumed to effect not the creation of substance and energy - for these transcended this God - but the conformation of all the Universe to a single and supreme order. And not yet is this order absolute, though oft it may have been supposed thus by man in his innocence."

But like we were discussing, perhaps every single thing experiences in its own way, which means the mere existence of anything entails a field of experience, participated in TWE. We simply have a more advanced form of experience. In this sense, Nature/God/TWE exists simply because of necessity, for if something exists TWE exists, and within primordial chaos inevitably something will come to exist.
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

pi_ramesses

Lol. Ok. I wasn't sure if you had asked the question within the monistic framework or not. The kind of God described in the Diabolicon seems quite reasonable to me. And yes, imo creation did stem from das Nichts, the waters, Azathoth or whatever term of primordial chaos is used. I gravitate towards the Platonic dialogues or Neoplatonic Enneads (especially the concept of emanation) in that respect.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 07:18:29 pm by Nylfmedli14 »
Pro omnis dominos viae sinistra, sic itur ad astra
Nylfmedli14

Setamontet

Even from my own somewhat advanced Setian perspective, the origins of the Universe are just as much a mystery as is the origin of Set him Self, all else is pure speculation.  From the Diabolicon we learn that the Prince of Darkness, in the "Statement of Satan - ArchDaimon", achieved the ability to become Self-Aware through an "unknown celestial fusion".  Even Set him Self does not truly Understand the origins of the potentiality which allowed him to bring into being his own independent conscious existence.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 08:04:54 am by Setamontet »

"Arise in your glory, behold the genius of your creation, and be prideful of being,
for I am the same - I who am the Highest of Life." - The Word of Set

pi_ramesses

Fascinating..
Pro omnis dominos viae sinistra, sic itur ad astra
Nylfmedli14

Setamontet

The Darkness is deep and endless, like the Abyss.  We in the Order of the Serpent seek after and are inspired by the exploration of the great mysteries of the Abyss.  We are in collaboration with the Prince of Darkness, our guide and mentor, in the quest for deeper knowledge and understanding.  This might sound dramatic, but I am feeling dramatic and inspired today after my Working last night. ;)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 12:26:59 pm by Setamontet »

"Arise in your glory, behold the genius of your creation, and be prideful of being,
for I am the same - I who am the Highest of Life." - The Word of Set

Onyx

Even from my own advanced Setian perspective, the origins of the Universe are just as much a mystery as is the origin of Set him Self, all else is pure speculation.
It's natural to speculate about "imponderables", and I hope/expect that greater understanding will come in time through self-definition (Xeper) and self-redefinition (Remanifest).

I've always been of the impression that the universe and nature came to be out of sheer possibility. In an infinite chaos of infinite probability, eventually "nature" would form within it.
This seems the most likely hypothesis to me, more specifically that certain patterns emerge in contrast to what might otherwise be considered chaotic in nature. Some atoms/molecues are stable, others aren't, etc.

Beyond that I'm clueless how Set may have come into existence. Perhaps it is the single "possibility" that is able to use the OU as a toolbox for it's own perpetuation?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 04:01:53 pm by Onyx »

Xepera maSet

I'm going to try and illustrate a small cosmology here.

In the beginning, or more appropriately before the beginning, there was primordial chaos - a timeless ocean of seething, infinite potential. Constantly creating potentials with an infinite amount of time, inevitably there would come to be some sort of Order withing the chaos. I don't agree with idea that matter and whatever else exists are separate from each other, they are two sides of the same coin and just as inseparable. This Order was both matter and "that which experiences," for matter interacts with itself naturally, causing "excitations" within it. Thus both Matter and TWE, the physical and the Form, exist for all time. Because of the timeless nature of chaos, we can say that, in our understanding, this world of Matter and Form has always existed, in keeping with modern physics. Further, you can see this chaos in "maps" of the Big Bang, under such esoteric terms as "quantum fluctuations." 

Then, evolution. We understand it pretty well from the Big Bang until the Upper Paleolithic Revolution. All Form/Experience was mindless, meaningless, all things simply "were" and simply "happened." Yet at some point, to our knowledge first around 20,000 - 10,000 years ago, something changed. Through unknown means, matter sparked to create inner experience, a great mystery known as the Hard Problem of Consciousness. And when X comes to exist, the Form of X comes to exist, thus the birth of Set, the First in Consciousness, a disruption to the natural order. I think perhaps Setamontet is correct, that even Set does not understand this "hard problem." Yet as a Form, Set exists outside of time and space, and so the entirety of its conscious evolution would be immediate. It was then that consciousness insanely accelerated in human beings, and continues to this day. 
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Xepera maSet

This thread is a good example of where myself and my Brother Xepera maSet differ, where the rubber meets the road in some of our differing understandings.  The O.S. is made up of extreme individualists with differing ideas and understandings.  In the "Book of Coming Forth by Night" Set states "I created HarWer (Horus) that I might define my Self."  Meaning, define him Self against the resistance of the Cosmic Stasis, defining him Self as Set, as something unique and distinct, and separate from, and independent of the laws that govern the Order of the Cosmos.  To me Horus is not the totality of the material universe though he is part if it and Horus is a part, if not the very semblance of our collective human sub-conscious mind.  The result of infusing the essence of the Black Flame with our natural human instincts and psychological make-up.

If Set were the creator of the material universe, that would make him God, the very cosmic inertia the Black Magician works against. The Universe existed long before Set Came Into Being.  Every time Set creates he disrupts the cosmic stasis and becomes responsible for that new aspect of the Universe and thus loses that much more of his independence and distinctiveness.  If Set were to displace the entire Universe he would become a new measure of consistency, he would cease to be One (Set), for he would become All (the new God), the new cosmic inertia.  Set does not seek to become God, however, he does seek to make the Universe a more Magical realm, a realm more reflective of the Setian Mind and Will.

Set sought to counter this imbalance and to create a Void in which true Creation could take the form of the Setian Will by creating Horus, the collective subconscious mind of the human race, by infusing within that which would become mankind the Gift of his (Set's) own Essence of Being.  So that there would come into being others of his own kind, able to creatively think for themselves and bring into being their own individual thoughts and ideas in accordance with their own mind and will, separate and distinct. Hence, re-creating the Cosmos as a reflection of the Setian Will in unique and unpredictable ways.  Hence, freeing Set to Be.  To me, this is a vital aspect of the bond between the Prince of Darkness and humankind.

The Black Gift, however, is both a blessing and a curse, but that is for another post.

I have come to see Horus the Elder as the OU, and the Younger as the collective subconscious.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 08:38:12 am by Setamontet »
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Xepera maSet

I'm thinking of addressing this topic in v. III, so I'm bumping it to see if there are new thoughts.
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

pi_ramesses

Perhaps I'm simply exhausted or over thinking now as I tend to do, but what exactly causes the ripples within TWE in the first place?

Going through my bookmarks, there was something that I didn't say here that I probably should have. Recognizing that this question would lead to an infinite regress (like the cosmological argument for the existence of gods), Kastrup opts to use TWE as an ontological primitive. That way it always comes back to it being aware of itself and its constituents. Pretty clever although it's circular. Use of the primitive seems acceptable by modern standards of philosophical rigor.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 03:02:39 pm by pi_ramesses »
Pro omnis dominos viae sinistra, sic itur ad astra
Nylfmedli14