Author Topic: The Goddess Kali  (Read 101 times)

King Mob

The Goddess Kali
« on: January 05, 2018, 03:20:31 am »
She's intrigued me lately. I'd like to know more about her from a left hand path perspective and I know we have some members who are into LHP hinduism on this board. I've googled it and did some mild research but I really trust and respect the members of this board's opinion moreso than google results.
"Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! But always unto me."- Nuit, Book of the Law.

crossfire

Re: The Goddess Kali
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 02:23:24 pm »
I'm Buddhist, so I'll speak about Black Tara. She's like a shamanic bridge between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind. She's the wrathful aspect of peaceful Green Tara, and is great for breaking bad habits and overcoming other psychological obstacles--aka a demon slayer.
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

crossfire

Re: The Goddess Kali
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 10:55:59 pm »
One more thing about Black Tara:  she's so powerful because her means of accomplishment is by transforming hatred into compassion.
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

Olive

Re: The Goddess Kali
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2018, 05:25:55 am »
@crossfire Interesting interpretation. I see her as the inevitable coming of death, which is beyond freedom/love/hope/existence. She has a gruesome visage, with the long tongue, blood, wearing of human body parts and a garland of skulls. And while her left hands hold a scimitar(all kinds of symbolism, but in magical purposes usually mind/idea/knowledge) and a severed head (representing violent/gruesome pain of death and loss of body and ego), her right two hands give the hand signs for "fear not" and "blessings".

I've studied the Nyāya-vaiśeṣika system of Hinduism, and one of the 9 fundamental realities they speak of is Kālá. Which we usually translate into english as 'Time', but it is understood as the force that whirls everything around in this existence - the beginningless motion of all things and the turning of the wheel of Saṃsāra.

Kali is heavily related to this concept, symbolizing both death and time (Which makes sense, the former is a consequence of the latter). She has a greater deva form known as Mahākālī, which means 'Great Time'. She is depicted with 10 heads, arms, and legs that each hold symbols of other gods - kind of implying how they are only possible through her, and all of their doings are included in the force of her movements.

Both of her forms contain quite disturbing imagery, and yet she offers relief, kindness, and surety. Her greater form is apparently known as one of the kindest and most loving of all deities. She's a complicated figure, but I think one who understands all the meaning behind her depictions is close to wisdom. Death has a terrible grin, but one of knowledge does not begrudge the chance to leave this existence forever. As they say, this world is in every way confused and perturbed. Do not then, most imminent of men, condemn the fortune which seeks you.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 03:25:31 pm by Olive »

Kapalika

Re: The Goddess Kali
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2018, 02:25:12 pm »
Did someone mention...

https://imgur.com/t2ZEsk3

Kali in one hand her yantra in the other and er her in the middle behind the tangle of satanic and hindu stuff :)

Sorry, just wanted to show off my bling xD legit what I was wearing this morning; not even at home atm

Okay seriously now for my actual post...[/i]

Kali is pretty complicated/complex in general. It's really going to vary based on who you ask. For me, as a follower of Trika, Kali is a very, very layered deity. She's the Universe, change, time, death, and the means through which one realizes their self as Shiva, and also the expression of their realization and the manifestation of their will and total-consciousness.

She is the active part of existence and the awareness of consciousness. She is mother and the birth of all of creation. This is seen in the 36 tattva system of more mainstream Shaivism whereas she is the Shakti-tattva, kind of the dark to Shiva's light. This is really true in Trika as she is often the Ishvara used in the Ishvara-tattva which is the accentuation of the objective universe/macrocosom.

There's a number of Shakta sects I am probably close to, considering that Kashmir Shaivism took a lot of influence from both Shakta and Vajrayana. Even the Aghori today are kind of like a mix of Shaivism and Shakta. In Trika, the actual name Trika comes from our 3 goddessess of ParaShakti, ParaParaShakti and AparSshakti. Shakti, Kali.. the same. The feminine inside (Kali) is a large part of the focus of Vasugupta's SpandaKarika text. Not so much as say a focus on Kunadalini sense as just overall as a meditative sense IIRC

I actually spoke with someone in a thread here on the topic under the same name.

To quote the relevant part:

Quote from: Kapalika
To quote Swami Lakshman Joo, who helped revive Trika:
"God and the individual are one, to realize this is the essence of Shaivism."

In Trika this is done by way of Shakti hence the focus in this text on the femininity. The Triad Shiva, Shakti and Tantric (Anu) is a reflection of this as Anu (individual, limited self) finds way to Shiva (transcendent) through Shakti. This is also reflected in our other triad, ParaShakti, ParaParaShakti and AparaShakti.

Shiva is the transcendent above all, Shakti is that expression... so Shiva and Shakti are, as you say, conceptions of the nature of god yes, but also in this system the way by which one realizes that inherent nature.

Actually, Kali to me could be seen as the ShuddhaShudda Tattvas and as ParaParaShakti since that's where her domain time resides. Time is essentially the same as death and change here, since both are a product of it. Other tattvas there fit as well like Kalā (power, not to be mistaken with Kālā which is time), Vidya (knowledge), and Raga (desire). Since She is again the focus of the object to the subject-object (and she's an object as she is the idol and the worshipped, the focused on, to accent our subject-self as contrast) the spatial aspect for duality is needed, Niyati tattva.

So she is to me and within Trika SFAIK the expression of both duality and the reaffirmation of oneness. We realize our inner Shakti and Shiva as both being there, and being one in the same. Kali is again that focus because she is the agent and the mover, the creation and the manifestation of Shiva's, our, eternal truth. We are Kali, we are Shiva. It's by Kali that in Trika one's mind is not simply erased when they realize this non-separation of divinity and mind, but the way that the mind is remanifested into the universal consciousness as a facet of reality. In a sense, it is as if we are each a face on a infinitely sided diamond. Fully individuated and yet one at the same time. In Hinduism and to an extend other religions, literal human like faces are used to represent personalities so this is a bit of a pun :)

Just to clarify a little more, Shakti is the same as Kali here. The Kapalikas, and everyone branching from them often use the form of Kali for Shakti as she is the fierce form. Most tantric art and depictions of Shiva and Shakti are in fierce forms and it's just a focus of how we see the manifestations of them. Not that any others are less valid, but they are our Ishvaras, our divine inspiration and the focus of our meditation and rituals. The fierce forms go perfectly hand in hand with the LHP nature of much of our beliefs and practices. The more RHP variations will use less focus on Kali and Bhairava and it's actually one way to tell what kind you are dealing with but ultimately they are one in the same. Funny enough actually one of the central texts of Trika is the Vinjana Bhairava Tantra from the Bhairava Agama. So the fierce forms are at the root of Trika, which makes sense since Trika's roots were in the Kapalika ascetics.

If anyone needs any clarification or any questions feel free. I know sometimes I really get into just talking about these kinds of subjects.

@crossfire Interesting interpretation. I see her as the inevitable coming of death, which is beyond freedom/love/hope/existence.

It's worth mentioning too that death is also a symbol of rebirth. Her domains are on side dark but also light, which is why there is a lot of focus on her aspect of motherly love within Hinduism. There is the Samsara and reincarnation that's more literal and then the more metaphorical one of our own self evolution throughout this life.

I've studied the Nyāya-vaiśeṣika system of Hinduism,

It's good to see some of the orthodoxy represented here! Being Tantric myself I'm not as familiar with the Vedic sects si it's refreshing to see it from another perspective.

and a severed head (representing violent/gruesome pain of death and loss of body and ego),

The demon head she holds can also represent our own flaws. This goes to her early roots as a demon killer.

Her greater form is apparently known as one of the kindest and most loving of all deities.

And terrifying.

I'm Buddhist, so I'll speak about Black Tara. She's like a shamanic bridge between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind. She's the wrathful aspect of peaceful Green Tara, and is great for breaking bad habits and overcoming other psychological obstacles--aka a demon slayer.

Interesting the commonality of being a demon slayer, but I'm not too familiar her. Some googling indicated she's both in Mahayana and Vajrayana but from some goolging and wikipedia seems her origins are debated. I know it's common of Tantric Buddhism particularly in Nepal to take fierce deities like Bhairava and Kali and incorporate them into Buddhism. And since Shakta and Buddhism share her it's not unlikely, but the evidence points to her being more tied to Durga than Kali if the couple of results i found on google are to be trusted so I'm not sure.

Could you expand on the link of Kali and Tara or anything else I just mentioned?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 02:29:31 pm by Kapalika »
My Music and Blog // My Chatroom
My religion is Satanism & Trika via Vāmācāra (Left Hand path)
"God and the individual are one, to realize this is the essence of Shaivism.” - Lakshman Joo

crossfire

Re: The Goddess Kali
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2018, 04:36:39 pm »


I'm Buddhist, so I'll speak about Black Tara. She's like a shamanic bridge between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind. She's the wrathful aspect of peaceful Green Tara, and is great for breaking bad habits and overcoming other psychological obstacles--aka a demon slayer.

Interesting the commonality of being a demon slayer, but I'm not too familiar her. Some googling indicated she's both in Mahayana and Vajrayana but from some goolging and wikipedia seems her origins are debated. I know it's common of Tantric Buddhism particularly in Nepal to take fierce deities like Bhairava and Kali and incorporate them into Buddhism. And since Shakta and Buddhism share her it's not unlikely, but the evidence points to her being more tied to Durga than Kali if the couple of results i found on google are to be trusted so I'm not sure.

Could you expand on the link of Kali and Tara or anything else I just mentioned?
I would say that Black Tara and Kali probably both arose from a common earlier goddess representing the power of transforming hatred into compassion--a demon slayer.  Black Tara has many different forms according to the culture--even out to Burma.  Some bear a strong resemblance to Kali, others--not so much. 

Within Buddhism wrathful deities/actions are plugged into in order to get around or destroy obstacles,  and in Black Tara's case, the obstacle is hatred.  I thought that it might be interesting to find the common ground between Black Tara and Kali, and try to get to the common root.
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

Kapalika

Re: The Goddess Kali
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2018, 05:21:12 pm »
I just remembered there is a LHP Shakta/Satanist I know on IRC I could probably get on here, he might share his own view as well to give us yet another perspective.


I would say that Black Tara and Kali probably both arose from a common earlier goddess representing the power of transforming hatred into compassion--a demon slayer.  Black Tara has many different forms according to the culture--even out to Burma.  Some bear a strong resemblance to Kali, others--not so much. 

Within Buddhism wrathful deities/actions are plugged into in order to get around or destroy obstacles,  and in Black Tara's case, the obstacle is hatred.  I thought that it might be interesting to find the common ground between Black Tara and Kali, and try to get to the common root.


With that in mind, what would you make of the story where she was so swept in blood lust, that she threatened to kill everyone even her own? Shiva eventually laid below her so she would step on him and come out of it. This is the popular depiction of her with Shiva under her.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 05:22:57 pm by Kapalika »
My Music and Blog // My Chatroom
My religion is Satanism & Trika via Vāmācāra (Left Hand path)
"God and the individual are one, to realize this is the essence of Shaivism.” - Lakshman Joo

crossfire

Re: The Goddess Kali
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2018, 07:09:07 am »
I just remembered there is a LHP Shakta/Satanist I know on IRC I could probably get on here, he might share his own view as well to give us yet another perspective.


I would say that Black Tara and Kali probably both arose from a common earlier goddess representing the power of transforming hatred into compassion--a demon slayer.  Black Tara has many different forms according to the culture--even out to Burma.  Some bear a strong resemblance to Kali, others--not so much. 

Within Buddhism wrathful deities/actions are plugged into in order to get around or destroy obstacles,  and in Black Tara's case, the obstacle is hatred.  I thought that it might be interesting to find the common ground between Black Tara and Kali, and try to get to the common root.


With that in mind, what would you make of the story where she was so swept in blood lust, that she threatened to kill everyone even her own? Shiva eventually laid below her so she would step on him and come out of it. This is the popular depiction of her with Shiva under her.
I don't know what to think about it.
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

Liu

Re: The Goddess Kali
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 08:21:52 am »
Regarding Tārā, in "Kālī Kaula" by Jan Fries there is a chapter on her, focusing mainly on her possible Chinese origins and stressing that the Buddhist and Hindu forms are utterly different from each other (p.141-154).

Would need to re-read that to give a more detailed account.


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