Author Topic: Platonic Argument Against Materialism  (Read 198 times)

Xepera maSet

Platonic Argument Against Materialism
« on: April 28, 2017, 01:44:49 pm »
1. Materialism requires Platonism to be correct.

2. Platonism proves materialism incorrect.

3. Therefore, it would be paradoxical for materialism to be correct.

Why number 1? Platonism recognizes things like natural kinds and the existence of Forms - objective characteristics that provide the essence of objects. If Platonism is not true then all characteristics, identification, etc are simple mental fabrications. Without it science itself would not be possible, for science relies on the being objective characteristics to study.

Why number 2? Rather obviously Forms and natural kinds and such are not material. If immaterial things are necessary for the world then materialism cannot be true.

Why 3? Because to reject Platonism would reject all that led to and supports physicalism. If characteristics and categories are only assigned by the brain, this is the exact opposite of materialism. And yet this is one of the most common objections to Platonism.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 02:07:50 pm by Onyx »
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Xepera maSet

Re: Platonic Argument Against Materialism
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2017, 01:46:25 pm »
Sorry guys, not sure why it's such big font. 
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Onyx

Re: Platonic Argument Against Materialism
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2017, 02:12:33 pm »
It probably tried to preserve the font style when pasting. I fixed it, there is a "remove formatting" button on the top toolbar.

Xepera maSet

Re: Platonic Argument Against Materialism
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2017, 02:43:06 pm »
Good to know, thanks onyx!
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Kapalika

Re: Platonic Argument Against Materialism
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2017, 04:36:28 am »
1. Materialism requires Platonism to be correct.

2. Platonism proves materialism incorrect.

3. Therefore, it would be paradoxical for materialism to be correct.

Why number 1? Platonism recognizes things like natural kinds and the existence of Forms - objective characteristics that provide the essence of objects. If Platonism is not true then all characteristics, identification, etc are simple mental fabrications. Without it science itself would not be possible, for science relies on the being objective characteristics to study.

Why number 2? Rather obviously Forms and natural kinds and such are not material. If immaterial things are necessary for the world then materialism cannot be true.

Why 3? Because to reject Platonism would reject all that led to and supports physicalism. If characteristics and categories are only assigned by the brain, this is the exact opposite of materialism. And yet this is one of the most common objections to Platonism.

There's two major holes in this argument.

The first is that you don't explain why Materialism requires Platoism. I'm not sure why you say Platoism contradicts materialism while simultaneously claiming that materialism needs Platoism. If both are mutually exclusive then they do not require one another.

The second is related; you have some circular logic by using Platoism as both an axiom and the conclusion, and you don't have any other axioms.

But if Platoism is an axiom, there really isn't anything further than recognizing that materialism contradicts Platoism.

If Platoism is the conclusion, then you need to start with your axioms and see if they naturally and logically lead to Platoism, then once that is proven then you can easily deduce that materialism is false like noted above except that Platoism wouldn't be an axiom, but a statement previously proven.

More practically speaking, confirmed evidence of non-physical phenomena in repeatable, double blind experimentation would be all that is needed to disprove Materialism. I'm not sure specifically would would be needed to give direct evidence of Platoism in the same way. As I understand it Platoism isn't falsifiable and so it can't be proven or disproven. That would make it purely in the realm of the philosophical and it would only be useful to argue about it with logic alone, but that runs into the problem that axioms are assumptions and so you can't convince anyone with different axioms.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 04:40:29 am by Shamira »
My Music and Blog

My religion is Satanism & Trika via Vāmāchāra