Author Topic: How do you know you're dealing with an egregore or a thought-form?  (Read 70 times)

Setamorphosis

How do you know you're communicating with an egregore instead of an actual entity, such as The Prince of Darkness? What traits would tell you that you're not talking to an actual metaphysical entity, and not somebody's construct.
a.k.a. Ave Lucifugus

King Mob

Re: How do you know you're dealing with an egregore or a thought-form?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2017, 05:34:11 am »
There's no real difference. Temple of Set posits that every entity other than the Prince of Darkness is a thoughtform.

Chaos magic would say they're all thought forms.

Having direct experience with Egregors, I can tell you they function exactly the same as Gods. If you're worried about following another's will, don't. The mass psychic imprint would cause it to behave how a God would do psychic imprint.

I highly recommend studying DKMU's egregors to see how they function. I mean, these are just theories but at a certain point, Gods had to come from somewhere, right? So Egregors are either putting a new face on a force or creating a new God all together.

I would love to create on with some time. I never had trusted people to do it with. I tried at once but it sort of fell part. It was an interesting expiriment to begin with though as you get to know your magical strengths and weaknesses better.

My theory is that with a group of people, you get a strong servitor with some personality.  If servitors are akin to elementals, egregors would range from spirit to godform based on the ammount of belief poured into it. However, belief effects it which you could say it does for stuff we know are Gods historically too.

So my idea is that you create an egregor in private. Keep most of it's personality traits rather than the bare minimum secretive-ish and then introduce it to the public. If it catches on, keep track of how people interpret it and if it effects it's energies. This would have to continue to be a group working as a couple people would have to work with the Created Egregor without knowledge of the updates to see if it effects it. Then have another person or two work with the egregor after being updated because maybe passing your interpretation on effects it.

If you could do this succesfully, you could come to possibly understand how Godforms in general work.
"A wolf  is  a  shadow  and  should  never  be  chained.  To  me,  Vánagandr  represents the  very  essence  of  chaos.  He  is  the  antithesis  of  law  and  order.  Without  chaos in  one's  life,  you  fall  into  stagnation  with  no  room  for  growth.  That  is  what  Vánagandr  represents."

Setamorphosis

Re: How do you know you're dealing with an egregore or a thought-form?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2017, 10:55:16 am »
Quote
Temple of Set posits that every entity other than the Prince of Darkness is a thoughtform.

...Which doesn't make a lot of sense, in my opinion. I disagree with them on that notion wholeheartedly.

The thing is, egregores need to be fueled by belief, as you've said. There are gods and demons who've never been worshiped, yet they're quite powerful.

No one, for example, worships King Paimon from the Goetia. No one even knows who he was before the demonization. Yet, everyone who's ever worked with him, has had amazing results.

I don't think that all entities are the same.

Quote
Gods had to come from somewhere, right?

Not necessarily. Some of them could be acausal, just like The Void.
a.k.a. Ave Lucifugus

Setamontet

Re: How do you know you're dealing with an egregore or a thought-form?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 11:03:19 am »
How do you know you're communicating with an egregore instead of an actual entity, such as The Prince of Darkness? What traits would tell you that you're not talking to an actual metaphysical entity, and not somebody's construct.

An egregore serves you, it does not say such things to you as "Manifest my, the egregores will."  Or "Re-consecrate my Temple in the true name of...."
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 11:06:59 am by Setamontet »

"Arise in your glory, behold the genius of your creation, and be prideful of being,
for I am the same - I who am the Highest of Life." - The Word of Set

Setamorphosis

Re: How do you know you're dealing with an egregore or a thought-form?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 11:05:11 am »
So if one were to call upon an entity which does not cater to the magician's every whim, it's not an egregore?
a.k.a. Ave Lucifugus

Setamontet

Re: How do you know you're dealing with an egregore or a thought-form?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2017, 11:08:43 am »
Precisely!

"Arise in your glory, behold the genius of your creation, and be prideful of being,
for I am the same - I who am the Highest of Life." - The Word of Set

Setamorphosis

Re: How do you know you're dealing with an egregore or a thought-form?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2017, 11:11:15 am »
But the entity could do you some favors, under certain circumstances, no? After all, The Prince of Darkness did a tremendous favor to Michael Aquino in writing the book, as well as establishing The Temple of Set. Dare I say it's partially thanks to The Prince of Darkness that LaVey got his fame.
a.k.a. Ave Lucifugus

King Mob

Re: How do you know you're dealing with an egregore or a thought-form?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2017, 01:10:41 pm »
From personal experience in expirimenting with both, it my gnosis that what @Setamontet  is reffering to is a servitor, a name of serve as a root word and egregor is more complicated. These are also the chaos magic definitions.

Here is a TON of articles on egregors, sigils, and servitors if anyone wishes to delve more into the topic. 

http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/sseg.php

Also, there exists a method crafted by the DKMU in which you can give a servitor a specific personality that I have used to great success.
"A wolf  is  a  shadow  and  should  never  be  chained.  To  me,  Vánagandr  represents the  very  essence  of  chaos.  He  is  the  antithesis  of  law  and  order.  Without  chaos in  one's  life,  you  fall  into  stagnation  with  no  room  for  growth.  That  is  what  Vánagandr  represents."

King Mob

Re: How do you know you're dealing with an egregore or a thought-form?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2017, 01:40:50 pm »
"An egregore is a kind of group mind which is created when people consciously come together for a common purpose. Whenever people gather together to do something and egregore is formed, but unless an attempt is made to maintain it deliberately it will dissipate rather quickly. However if the people wish to maintain it and know the techniques of how to do so, the egregore will continue to grow in strength and can last for centuries.
An egregore has the characteristic of having an effectiveness greater than the mere sum of its individual members. It continuously interacts with its members, influencing them and being influenced by them. The interaction works positively by stimulating and assisting its members but only as long as they behave and act in line with its original aim. It will stimulate both individually and collectively all those faculties in the group which will permit the realization of the objectives of its original program. If this process is continued a long time the egregore will take on a kind of life of its own, and can become so strong that even if all its members should die, it would continue to exist on the inner dimensions and can be contacted even centuries later by a group of people prepared to live the lives of the original founders, particularly if they are willing to provide the initial input of energy to get it going again.

If the egregore is concerned with spiritual or esoteric activities its influence will be even greater. People who discover the keys can tap in on a powerful egregore representing, for example, a spiritual or esoteric tradition, will, if they follow the line described above by activating and maintaining such an egregore, obtain access to the abilities, knowledge, and drive of all that has been accumulated in that egregore since its beginnings. Agroup ororder which manages to do this can, with a clear conscience, claim to be an authentic order of the tradition represented by that egregore. In my view this is the only yardstick by which a genuine Templar order should be measured."
"A wolf  is  a  shadow  and  should  never  be  chained.  To  me,  Vánagandr  represents the  very  essence  of  chaos.  He  is  the  antithesis  of  law  and  order.  Without  chaos in  one's  life,  you  fall  into  stagnation  with  no  room  for  growth.  That  is  what  Vánagandr  represents."

Setamorphosis

Re: How do you know you're dealing with an egregore or a thought-form?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2017, 02:06:39 pm »
I'll definitely need to do more research on this matter.
a.k.a. Ave Lucifugus

crossfire

Re: How do you know you're dealing with an egregore or a thought-form?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2017, 02:59:51 pm »
"An egregore is a kind of group mind which is created when people consciously come together for a common purpose. Whenever people gather together to do something and egregore is formed, but unless an attempt is made to maintain it deliberately it will dissipate rather quickly. However if the people wish to maintain it and know the techniques of how to do so, the egregore will continue to grow in strength and can last for centuries.
An egregore has the characteristic of having an effectiveness greater than the mere sum of its individual members. It continuously interacts with its members, influencing them and being influenced by them. The interaction works positively by stimulating and assisting its members but only as long as they behave and act in line with its original aim. It will stimulate both individually and collectively all those faculties in the group which will permit the realization of the objectives of its original program. If this process is continued a long time the egregore will take on a kind of life of its own, and can become so strong that even if all its members should die, it would continue to exist on the inner dimensions and can be contacted even centuries later by a group of people prepared to live the lives of the original founders, particularly if they are willing to provide the initial input of energy to get it going again.

If the egregore is concerned with spiritual or esoteric activities its influence will be even greater. People who discover the keys can tap in on a powerful egregore representing, for example, a spiritual or esoteric tradition, will, if they follow the line described above by activating and maintaining such an egregore, obtain access to the abilities, knowledge, and drive of all that has been accumulated in that egregore since its beginnings. Agroup ororder which manages to do this can, with a clear conscience, claim to be an authentic order of the tradition represented by that egregore. In my view this is the only yardstick by which a genuine Templar order should be measured."
I am in total agreement with this.  An egregore can also serve as a sort of "cloud drive," and can network with other egregores connected to the individuals who are part of that egregore.  My Order has its own deliberately created egregore, even though we are not Templars.
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

King Mob

Re: How do you know you're dealing with an egregore or a thought-form?
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2017, 03:15:20 pm »
I would love to collaborate with some people on this forum to create an egregor as a study on how deities/thoughtforms/egregors/etc. might work and function in the astral. I feel like it would be extremely useful knowledge to anyone who seeks self-deification.
"A wolf  is  a  shadow  and  should  never  be  chained.  To  me,  Vánagandr  represents the  very  essence  of  chaos.  He  is  the  antithesis  of  law  and  order.  Without  chaos in  one's  life,  you  fall  into  stagnation  with  no  room  for  growth.  That  is  what  Vánagandr  represents."


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