Author Topic: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP  (Read 3296 times)

Frater Gaster

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #60 on: December 24, 2017, 12:32:40 pm »
Hmm, I see. Do you have a book on Lovecraftian magick? There is one by Asenath Mason, if I'm not mistaken; I heard it's quite good.

I personally avoid Lovecraftian stuff. It's the fictional element that repels me. It's silly, but I can't (or won't) help it.

By the way, I wanted to ask you something, but I think I'll make a new thread instead.
"I know that I hung on a windy tree nine long nights, wounded with a spear, dedicated to Odin, myself to myself, on that tree of which no man knows from where its roots run."

- Odin

Xepera maSet

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #61 on: December 24, 2017, 05:04:31 pm »
Check out "The Dark Lord" by Peter Levenda for Lovecraftian magic.
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137


The stars don't tell the future, Donkey.
They tell stories.
- Shrek

NEMO 93

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #62 on: December 24, 2017, 06:14:19 pm »
@Setamorphosis I always felt the same way about Lovecraft but I'm trying to break old taboos. The fact that he wrote most of his stuff based on his dreams is what gives it weight as possibly more than fiction to me.

My favorite is EPOCH, or Esotericon & The Portals of Chaos, by Peter J. Carrol. It's last portion, the necronomicon, is my favorite Lovecraftian grimoire ever as it makes the most sense.

I'm also reading some of Donald Tysons stuff and I like the theory but not sure about actual practice. The stuff based on Zodiac rather than planets makes more sense in his stuff, and I love that. Accessing the astral necronomicon through the zodiac. Over-all, I view Carrol's theory of Lovecraftian entities as Plutionian or  Transplutonian forces the best.

I definitely have to read The Dark Lord @Xepera maSet, I'm curious to see what he has to say. In that vein, Kenneth Grant is very interesting on Lovecraft. His first book, The Magickal Revival, picks up on correspondences between lovecraft and crowley around the time of the book of the law to speculate that Lovecraft's dreams were tapping into similar forces. I suspect Grant would attribute Lovecraftian beings to the Qlipoth in his theory but that is me talking out of my ass.
"“I ate civilization. It poisoned me; I was defiled. And then," he added in a lower tone, "I ate my own wickedness.” -Aldous Huxley

Frater Gaster

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2017, 07:50:47 pm »
T H I S   I S   A N   I M P O R T A N T   U P D A T E

So as some of you may know, I have move past Satanism, or at the very least Judeo-Christian terminology of describing the adversarial current, as well was working with entities from said tradition. Instead, I turned my focus over to paganism.

Instead of Acosmic Satanism, I may refer to the path as simply "Acosmicism" or "Acosmic Paganism." After all, the focus never really was on Satan. In my article (Imperishable Star III), I wrote that we call(ed?) ourselves Satanists because, like Satan, we rebel against the established order - the order of universe itself.

Now, what I would like to do is give a list of gods and goddesses I would consider to be very helpful for the practitioner of this path. Obviously, this is a mixed pantheon:

Loki

Hekate

Crnobog/Chernobog - Slavic god of chaos, night, and "evil"

Odin, or (if one is uncomfortable with the connotations of Odin) Draugadróttinn, which is another name of Odin meaning "Lord of the Undead"

Hel

Typhon

Fenrir

Jormugandr

Ymir

Set

Surtr

Horz (possibly an aspect of Dazdbog) - Slavic lunar god of night, demons, vampirism, lycanthropy

Morana - Slavic goddess of death & winter

Kek - not even being ironic

Gullveig

Apophis/Apep

Babalon

Tiamat

Important note: This does not mean that one should exclusively work with these gods & goddesses. One should work and associate with whomever they wish; I only listed deities which I think would be very beneficial.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 08:18:54 pm by Setamorphosis »
"I know that I hung on a windy tree nine long nights, wounded with a spear, dedicated to Odin, myself to myself, on that tree of which no man knows from where its roots run."

- Odin

NEMO 93

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2017, 08:13:36 pm »
@Setamorphosis I think I like, Acosmic Adversarialism, if not Acosmicism in general.

I want to add Hel, Gullveig, Apophis, and Babalon to those list of God names. Horus could be useful as the twin of Set like how I view Odin and Loki.
"“I ate civilization. It poisoned me; I was defiled. And then," he added in a lower tone, "I ate my own wickedness.” -Aldous Huxley

Frater Gaster

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2017, 08:18:07 pm »
Hel's already on the list. And, yes, good call. I'll add those right now. Not sure about Horus, though. AH! I also forgot to mention Tiamat.

Acosmicism, yeah. For simplicity's sake.
"I know that I hung on a windy tree nine long nights, wounded with a spear, dedicated to Odin, myself to myself, on that tree of which no man knows from where its roots run."

- Odin

Olive

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #66 on: January 02, 2018, 07:13:42 pm »
I just read through all of this and I've gotta say I really appreciate the current of thought happening here. I think my path has tread a lot of the same ground as this Acosmicism or Acosmic Adversarialism.

One thing I found interesting in particular was the earlier discussion on Demonolatry in the faustian sense; makings pacts with and devoting oneself to a particular entity through which one comes into contact with forbidden knowledge and other energies. I have found this to be a particularly effective approach even though I thought of it differently when I first started experimenting with this.

I chose to align and devote myself not to a conceptual entity from history or religion, but to the Immaculate Moon and the feminine energies associated with it within myself. I have spent much time since then performing rituals for and by her, honoring her cycles, and discovering her many appellations in search of her true name. Many things have I done in this lunar work.

After some time the character of my work changed. It was no longer of the nature of idolatry and worship as it had been in the beginning. Instead I became this white goddess, or at least a vessel or manifestation of it on this plane. And yet it continue to evolve through me. Things have been revealed to me in such a way that I have come to believe the creatures who are born and die here by her humble light have been deeply impacted by it. The eternal presence of her being and observation has been forever seared into or built into our biology and development. There's so much I could say about this path but I don't want to overload this thread with such an essay of a post.

Demonolatry is essentially an achetypical approach to these entities and energetic states. I think I happened to discover a deeply ingrained one (at least within myself) that contains a lot of what I would call wisdom (to use a word). I am curious if you would classify this as the same type of relationship as the one you experienced, Setamorphosis. I wonder what kind of entity you worked with and if you were happy with the result.

It's interesting, because my reverence for the moon has revealed different parts that are normally thrown into separate entities. There is an aspect of the Great Mother in it, with the connections to femininity and fertility. There's also the aspect of her the as Queen of Night  or Light in the Darkness, which is somewhat reminiscent of Set to me, especially because she suggests the possibility of the perfected soul. Also we have this aspect of constant cycles of birth and death, and yet immortality as part of that, which calls to mind Xeper or the remanifesting serpent in Apophis terms. (I just picked this book recently and have been working through it. I'm feeling some synchronicity in the things that King Mob has been posting about it honestly.)

There are also elements of silence, stillness, and humility - which come into play in my meditative practices. I'm sure you guys know how essential they are for internal alchemy. I'm gonna leave it here for now but there's another big topic I want to get into later about LHP/RHP/MP and how the separation between their goals is suspect. In very short form, LHP falsely fears total absorption of the self and thus results in clinging to egoic identities which limits their progression and ability to see what might be called Ultimate Truth; true RHP (which is rare) is mainly about direct techniques to connect to the void/unborn/source, but they stop here and don't teach methods of remanifestation or intentionality - instead preferring to remain in choiceless centered awareness. These practices are both necessary, I've found, in the highest levels of our path.

If you ask me, the truest blasphemy or greatest black magic is the super assertion of self of an enlightened being, whether that is manifested in the material dimension or the immaterial dimension. I know that's a loaded statement but I want to expand on this when I have more time to synthesize.
"I look beyond;
Flowers are not,
Nor tinted leaves.
On the sea beach
A solitary cottage stands
In the waning light
Of an autumn eve."

-Sen no Rikyū

Frater Gaster

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2018, 07:38:41 pm »
@Olive ,

Workings with the lunar energies, eh? That's really interesting. I must say that my experiences with entities have been similar to yours. It was psychotherapeutic at first, then it progressed to physical and intellectual advancement.

I was working with Astaroth very intimately, and then at one point he/she (Astaroth is sexless, but you get the idea) told me that I need to move on. I was a dedicated demonolator, but now I've moved on to Norse Paganism, and a few other currents, with Norse Paganism being my main one. A dream of Odin initiated all that.

Quite honestly, magic is pure inner alchemy. One cannot bend the laws of physics with magic, it's reprogramming oneself. My goal is to master magic, which means to discover the most efficient method(s) of getting results.

Due to my experiences, I take something similar to a Jungian approach to magic. What's more is that I would say that it's not a matter of psychological versus spiritual. They are one and the same. The word "spiritual" and "spirituality" are poorly defined, which is why I might be forced to coin a definition sooner or later. But I am convinced that psychology is the same as spirituality.

There are, however, different ways you can talk about one particular thing. Take entities for example. I tend to regard them as archetypical ideas (which are autonomous not just symbols) instead of spirits. Spirit is a poorly defined word too. When you say "spirit" the word "ghost" comes to mind, and I don't believe in ghosts. I think ghosts are impossible to exist.

What these entities are something far more profound than mere invisible sentient forces.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that materialism is compatible with spirituality, but that's another issue.

Back to the point, I've had very similar experiences as you. Learning things about myself was the first step. I saw sides of mine that I never knew existed. And I accepted them right away, even if I would be condemned by the general population as an insane madman.

"I know that I hung on a windy tree nine long nights, wounded with a spear, dedicated to Odin, myself to myself, on that tree of which no man knows from where its roots run."

- Odin

Olive

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2018, 08:53:59 pm »
@Olive ,

Workings with the lunar energies, eh? That's really interesting.

You know it!  ;)

I must say that my experiences with entities have been similar to yours. It was psychotherapeutic at first, then it progressed to physical and intellectual advancement.

I was working with Astaroth very intimately, and then at one point he/she (Astaroth is sexless, but you get the idea) told me that I need to move on. I was a dedicated demonolator, but now I've moved on to Norse Paganism, and a few other currents, with Norse Paganism being my main one. A dream of Odin initiated all that.

Thanks for sharing, your story is intensely interesting to me. I'm intrigued that Astaroth told you to move on; I too have had these intuitions of having to one day break the moon (or image of moon) in order to progress. I think that process is what led to my metamorphosis - when I became the Goddess instead of serving it. A lot of these archetypes can teach you a lot through devotion, but once you reach a certain level of understanding you can break the idol and the energetics get a lot deeper. I don't have the might to reach into the heavens and do such a thing, nor would I want to - so for now the Great Mother serves as a most excellent spiritual focus as she follows her timeless course.

It's not a philosophy that exalts the material though, don't get me wrong. There is also a Moon, and Sun, and heavens that exist within. Even the visage of the physical moon is always apart from and looking down on this world, content and self-sufficient.

Quite honestly, magic is pure inner alchemy. One cannot bend the laws of physics with magic, it's reprogramming oneself. My goal is to master magic, which means to discover the most efficient method(s) of getting results.

Due to my experiences, I take something similar to a Jungian approach to magic. What's more is that I would say that it's not a matter of psychological versus spiritual. They are one and the same. The word "spiritual" and "spirituality" are poorly defined, which is why I might be forced to coin a definition sooner or later. But I am convinced that psychology is the same as spirituality.

I agree with you entirely. Magic is pure inner alchemy. I am less focused on "results" because the goals tend to change with every shed skin. For me it's more of a process of actualization and exploration. I have more or less severed my desires for things in the material world, so it's just a matter of seeing what I can accomplish by transmuting the soul for myself. My only issue with calling it Psychology is that it draws connections to a lot of western psychological work that explores the 'spirit' from the outside in rather than the inside out, which is directionally opposed to the type of work I participate in.

Your point about spirituality being ill defined is very very true. That's one of my biggest problems with a lot of people in these new age movements. They throw around this word all the time, but with no real explanation or understanding. Feel the spirit, spirituality, I'm spiritual, we're spiritual - eventually you just have to say
"Okay hold up what the fuck are you even talking about?"

...

"We're talking about living a spiritual lifestyle."

"That's a material lifestyle!"

"Material is the Spiritual."

"Okay? So it's just the material then...."  :facepalm:


All jokes aside I do believe Materialism and Spirituality are compatible, just not materialism as the West knows it. And it's one thing to just say it and repeat it like some of these new agers do and another to actually offer a penetrating insight on it.

There are, however, different ways you can talk about one particular thing. Take entities for example. I tend to regard them as archetypical ideas (which are autonomous not just symbols) instead of spirits. Spirit is a poorly defined word too. When you say "spirit" the word "ghost" comes to mind, and I don't believe in ghosts. I think ghosts are impossible to exist.

What these entities are something far more profound than mere invisible sentient forces.

I agree, these archetypical ideas and beings are not just inert energy like we talk about in science. It might be a stretch to say that all energy is conscious, but at least all internal energies are conscious and  actively transformative to those who enter these states.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 09:03:57 pm by Olive »
"I look beyond;
Flowers are not,
Nor tinted leaves.
On the sea beach
A solitary cottage stands
In the waning light
Of an autumn eve."

-Sen no Rikyū

Frater Gaster

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2018, 09:29:08 pm »
Quote
I'm intrigued that Astaroth told you to move on;

I think a demonolator or a JoS type would call me blasphemous for saying this (which is a compliment):

The Goetic demons are rather limited compared to their godform counterparts, if they have them. They have very specific functions and they can barely deviate from them. Astaroth can't provide me with profound spiritual understanding, for example. Astaroth is a materialistic entity, with its focus on friendships, charisma, love and sex. In the Lesser Key of Solomon it is said that Astaroth can also help with liberal sciences (which is true), and divination (which is false; I think divination in general is bunk but that's just me). But the emphasis is more on charisma, friendships, love & sex.

So, we both kinda knew it'd be pointless to work together forever. I'm not interested in love or sex; I make friends easily anyway and have a lot of confidence, so I decided to move on.

Quote
I think that process is what led to my metamorphosis - when I became the Goddess instead of serving it.

That's a very powerful quote, I'd say. And it's interesting because I think you took a step in the right direction. Submitting to an entity prevents you from growing in directions you want to grow. Sure, you can still grow as a servant and you can grow powerful, but you're not in full control of your evolution, which is not wise, in my opinion. A mentor-student relationship is the most optimal approach one can have when dealing with entities. Attempting to enslave and command them is the worst approach, which is why I dislike The Lesser Key of Solomon.

By the way, what was the turning point, if I may ask? What drove you to change your approach?

Quote
Feel the spirit, spirituality, I'm spiritual, we're spiritual - eventually you just have to say "Okay hold up what the fuck are you even talking about?"

Lol yeah. I also find it odd when "spiritual people" (mostly RHP) say, "Oh you're not spiritual. You're not altruistic, or super calm and lifeless like those Eastern mystics! You need lose your ego! Ego is BAD!"

Obviously, that's not how they exactly how they word; I'm making a caricature, but you get the point.

Honestly, I'd say that being spiritual means: "The process of discovering one's own true nature and the active pursuit of wisdom."

Good enough?

Quote
All jokes aside I do believe Materialism and Spirituality are compatible, just not materialism as the West knows it.

The West is degenerate for the most part, in my opinion. Although where I live it isn't much better either. We live in an age where "free love," wealth, chasing highs and entertainment are the highest good. Hedonistic animals. Ugh.

When I say Materialism I mean philosophical Materialism or more specifically Physicalism: everything  entails the physical. It's most definitely compatible with spirituality; my psychological model of magic as well as my definition confirm it.

Quote
And it's one thing to just say it and repeat it like some of these new agers do and another to actually offer a penetrating insight on it.

New Agers are fun to mock. They preach love, positivity and peace (while many of them are egocentric and will easily admit it), and yet it's easy to make them go ballistic when you challenge their worldview. New Age is essentially a "spiritual" doctrine built upon a perversion of Eastern philosophy, coping mechanisms, and denial.

It's quite entertaining.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 09:31:59 pm by Setamorphosis »
"I know that I hung on a windy tree nine long nights, wounded with a spear, dedicated to Odin, myself to myself, on that tree of which no man knows from where its roots run."

- Odin

NEMO 93

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2018, 11:43:09 pm »
@Olive As a moon priestess, what are your feelings on Hekate, if any?

I've had an.....interesting...experience with her thus far, and I don't know what to make of her personally but as a goddess she intrigues me to no end.

And quite a bit of LHP adherers seem to be very fond of her.
"“I ate civilization. It poisoned me; I was defiled. And then," he added in a lower tone, "I ate my own wickedness.” -Aldous Huxley

Frater Gaster

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #71 on: January 02, 2018, 11:49:43 pm »
@King Mob ... interesting. I've been thinking about Hekate quite a bit today. Yesterday too. Mostly just today.

"I know that I hung on a windy tree nine long nights, wounded with a spear, dedicated to Odin, myself to myself, on that tree of which no man knows from where its roots run."

- Odin

NEMO 93

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2018, 12:26:01 am »
@Setamorphosis  Me as well well, lately, I considered invoking her the other day but divination cautioned me I may not want to pay the price of working with her. Funnily enough, the except I just sent you from my notes to demonstrate my gemetria process also contains a reference to Hekate(this is unrelated to the reason I asked, I didn't revisit my notes til after I asked her) so there's a second synchronicity for you.

My guess is she wants something. I'm intrigued by Hekate, but I'm slightly bitter and cautious. I want to know more, but....I don't now, I get the sense I'm just a pawn in a bigger game to her which is why I keep my distance. It's a shame because she seems like she could provide a lot of benefits if one worked with her.
"“I ate civilization. It poisoned me; I was defiled. And then," he added in a lower tone, "I ate my own wickedness.” -Aldous Huxley

Olive

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #73 on: January 03, 2018, 12:43:47 am »
@Olive As a moon priestess, what are your feelings on Hekate, if any?

I've had an.....interesting...experience with her thus far, and I don't know what to make of her personally but as a goddess she intrigues me to no end.

And quite a bit of LHP adherers seem to be very fond of her.

Interestingly I'm more familiar with her through my practices with witchcraft because I find that her connection to the moon is pretty weak. As far as I can tell she absorbed her triplicity from the cycles of the moon, but this was a later addition influenced by early practitioners of witchcraft. She seems to be an entity that delights in the affairs of this world moreso than others of her archetype. She favors the traveler and the practitioner. She loves all of "God's Honest Creatures" (take that for what you will), but man has to earn her respect.

To me she seems to be an entity primarily about revelation. She holds keys to open doors, and she is also titled Lampadephoros meaning light-bearer or bringer. Her altars were often placed at crossroads, further strengthening this connection to illumination and important decisions. Hecate will help you find answers, but only once you are far from your comfort zone.

She also has a bit of a dark side. She can be playful in matters that are life-or-death to a man. She loves to bring misfortune to those who have harmed animals, especially dogs. She is also rumored among witches to have authored many serious curses, which are detrimental to both the target and the caster. She is sometimes described as a virgin goddess, and yet as far as I know she is amenable to sexual gestures - but I wouldn't recommend trying it unless you are really confident with your sexual energies. Otherwise that fickle nature may show its head and she may be more liable to humiliate you for overreaching.

Historically she is pretty interesting, too. She wasn't native to the greek pantheon, and even though she found fierce competition there from the likes of Diana and others, she carved out a niche for herself. And unlike many other greek entities she still finds reverence to this day. Her tradition traveled all across Europe, picking up and incorporating different elements from many legends of wise women and their gatherings as she went. This continued to snowball until today, when she is practically patron saint of witches.

I don't work with her often so I won't try to speak for her beyond what I've said so far, but I do respect her and what she represents. She is essentially the benefactor of those who peak beyond the veil of their ordinary life. In other words, II - THE HIGH PRIESTESS
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 05:42:51 pm by Olive »
"I look beyond;
Flowers are not,
Nor tinted leaves.
On the sea beach
A solitary cottage stands
In the waning light
Of an autumn eve."

-Sen no Rikyū

Rougue

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #74 on: January 03, 2018, 03:06:53 am »
Not sure about Horus, though.

I believe that Horus and Leviathan (possibly more) are the same stream of Self.
They are 'the child'
Simply, they represent the beginning of a new Cycle.
This is where We come into hand, setting fresh foundations.
We are the over seer of the subconscious.
We will show you, your values, your fears.

I believe of value, but I guess all are to some one.
The Rose of the Palace of Fire