Author Topic: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP  (Read 867 times)

Setamorphosis

Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« on: October 02, 2017, 01:51:22 pm »
The purpose behind this thread isn't to discuss MLO or anti-cosmic Satanism as it is, per se, but rather the anti-cosmic approach to the LHP as a possibility.

I was tentative about posting this thread, let alone put it in the right category. Given the nature of the approach, I would say that this can belong in either the Setianism or Satanism subforum.

Anyway, let's begin:

The most ultimate adversariality and isolation would no doubt be achieved by forsaking the cosmos altogether, and become something...other. A manifestation of primeval chaos, yet not merged with anything, perhaps? Something that is and isn't at the same time, something formless, independent, and alien...think of it as a Lovecraftian deity, as it were.

Through cultivating the Black Flame, one strives to transcend both the objective and the subjective universe (which is arguably very linked to the objective universe, although not as rigid in its mechanics). One becomes many, and none. It's the ultimate isolation, the ultimate rebellion against the mechanical, uncaring, mindless, and ruthless universe.

Many will say that the anti-cosmic philosophy is edgy, childish, or what have you. But I think there's something interesting in this approach. It's not that different from Buddhism, at its very rudimentary core. One could even argue that they're the same once you strip away the illusion of tradition, the imagery, etc.

Life indeed can be described by suffering - the one's own suffering throughout approximately a century, only to have all of his achievements (unless popular enough) turn to the dust. All in vain. There's also the suffering and death of another lifeform so that the other, seemingly greater lifeform can survive.

The universe itself, life in particular, may be beautiful to behold, but as I've said, it's rather uncaring, mechanical, and thrives on death and destruction, even on a small scale.

To transcend the objective universe, the casual, the cosmos, whatever you wish to term it, and be FINALLY free of its ruthlessness and imposing mechanics and rigid rules...there's nothing more Satanic than that.

And I don't use the word Satanic in LaVeyan terms either. Their very philosophy (submission to nature, discouraging to transcend it) is antithetical to the LHP.

So what do you think about this approach? I know it sounds rather negative, but I think this is an interesting topic to explore, and I can see how this can be integrated into Setianism, Satanism & the LHP in general, but can you?

I'm really curious what you folks think.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 01:54:51 pm by Setamorphosis »
"Darkness is just light turned inside out."
  --Beelzebub

Setamontet

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2017, 02:06:17 pm »
Setamorphosis, I think you have touched upon something of significance which will take some time for us to contemplate and collaborate upon.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 02:10:42 pm by Setamontet »

"Arise in your glory, behold the genius of your creation, and be prideful of being,
for I am the same - I who am the Highest of Life." - The Word of Set

Setamorphosis

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2017, 02:13:34 pm »
Then I will be eagerly awaiting your, and everybody else's responses. :)

Also, in the future, I will make a magical system which will incorporate elements of other traditions (without dogma) and philosophies, add some of my bits here and there, which I will post when it's in a suitable stage. The system itself, being accommodated to me, will evolve as I do, so I won't post a long, long essay on it, but I'll keep the text at a skeletal stage, as it were, so anyone can dive into it if they so choose, and add their own stuff to it. The hierarchy I posted will also be included, but it will be revamped.
"Darkness is just light turned inside out."
  --Beelzebub

Xepera maSet

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2017, 02:22:55 pm »
This is very interesting, as I myself am not a big fan of the material universe. When I imagine my own individual Setian afterlife, there are a lot of material aspects to it. For example, I'd like to be up in my heaven and be able to eat as much good food as I want, play some video games, have sex with angles, fun stuff like that. Due to this I am not sure if I would really want to leave the material world behind, I'd simple want a type of control over it. Of course if such an afterlife in conscious/astral anyways, then perhaps this imagine stuff doesn't actually count as the material world. It's a question I now have to think on thanks to you!

In the Diabolicon, if I remember correct, Satan and his followers decide that they will keep certain things from the natural mechanistic universe, and use it as an inspiration for Self-Ordering.

"But those who were of the new mind now followed me, and I turned to outermost chaos, which none of
us had before presumed to dare. We were beset with doubt, for we feared that apart from God we would
all perish in chaotic oblivion. But as we were, we remained, and I called to my fellowship, See! We exist
and are essence in our own right. In truth we are beings independent of God, empowered to shape our
own destinies as we may elect. Between the two great poles of the Universe, order and chaos, we shall
stand to effect our several desires. Let us counsel how best to employ our art, for our experiment is a
perilous one, forgiving error neither of intent nor of accident.
Many works did we then pursue, and the cosmic mechanism was altered by evolution of the original and
unique, whose design was our decision. All that we wrought did not prove beneficent, for we did not
control the futures of our creations. We left untouched the great system of mathematical behavior that
gave to us a Universal reference and language, but it was our ambition that no two things should be of
single identity, and that no entity should lack conceptual essence independent of its substantial form."
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Setamorphosis

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2017, 02:37:28 pm »
I am no fan of the material universe either. Frankly, I love nature, but only to observe it. I don't want to be a part of it, because it thrives on destruction. I believe that there is a way to leave it, and become something like a Lovecraftian deity, or something like Set. It's really difficult to put it to words, but to become something which is and isn't at the same time, which cannot affect the physical and is not bound by the physical, but can interact with the astral, and the mental, like any other external entity (e.g. Set) would.

Now, I do like plenty of stuff in this world, but if I have to sacrifice all of it to become this godly type of entity, then so be it. After all, when we transcend our desires and wordly attachments, when we achieve the ultimate metamorphosis, we wouldn't even feel the need for the stuff we used to crave.

I myself have been working, and am still working to transcend my nature. I have, believe it or not, for the most part overcome my sexual desires - which is one of the core aspects of the human animal.

This project is very much possible; the rewards to be reaped are great, but they don't come without costs and tremendous effort.

Also, that bit from the Diabolicon, hmm...maybe there is a way to retain to mimic particular elements from the material if one so choose, eh?

PS. Such an afterlife as you describe wouldn't be material at all. It would mirror it in some regards, but it's ultimately immaterial. Although, and this is my opinion, because it mirrors the material, it's also a tad limiting. You don't have infinite potential and possibilities. But when you have something so alien and incomprehensible which can be something and nothing at the same time, then there are no limits to what can happen.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 02:51:19 pm by Setamorphosis »
"Darkness is just light turned inside out."
  --Beelzebub

King Mob

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2017, 09:50:14 am »
I'm probably the one who has read most on Anti-Cosmicism here due to having a background in Chaos Magick and delving into a lot of Thursatru and LHP Norse books lately. I still haven't checked out Pan Paradox but it's on my list.

It's really a satanic form of Gnosticism or view of Satanism, to me, honestly. It has it's merits. I do not know how I feel about the goals personally but I feel it is a valid approach for some who seek that. They feel that chaos is the true creator that the demiurge is keeping us from by lying to us.

One of the theories is that to become one with the chaos, you have to sacrifice yourself three times. The first time you do this. I can't recall the order of the first two but it's human and animal selves. This leads to deification and you will have to sacrifice your God self to achieve the goal of anti-cosmicism. It seems counter-intuitive but the previous self-sacrifices do gain in power.

I've seen another LHP oriented book(techinically a Middle Path with LHP leanings) state that those who pray to dark gods to get what they want are simply still in line with those who pray to the light gods for stuff they want. They haven't really evolved. They're still using the Gods as something to rely on instead of a force of self-deification or self reliance. Keeping this in mind, anticosmic forces might be something beneficial for a LHP for the solve part of solve et coagulate.

It's way too edgey to be RHP despite sharing some goals and I think there's some differences. I think Buddhists want to be one with the universe, and would see the abyss as a natural part of it, where as anti-cosmicists would see chaos as the only truth. It's focused on seperation from the demi-urge.
"Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! But always unto me."- Nuit, Book of the Law.

Setamorphosis

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2017, 10:35:53 am »
Intuitively, I knew that those 3 sacrifices are in order. I think it's:

Animal > Human > God-self > (return to chaos)

Makes the most sense, really. I'm already undergoing this process. I'm still indecisive about the God-self, though.

Now, the end goal is something I've been pondering. Suppose you return to the chaos, merge with it, it's a seeming RHP goal, BUT I might just be speaking in human words here. Maybe there is no merging after all. Since chaos is all possibilities and none at the same time, one could argue that you merge, but are your own independent entity at the same time.

Something akin to the 11 chaos gods of Anti-Cosmic Satanism. Although I do not agree with their ideas (nor do I really disagree. I'm ambivalent), the idea that a single god, let's say Satan, is a manifestation of chaos, a chaotic force in its own right, but it's also a part of something greater (chaos, again).

Maybe I'm misunderstanding their concept, but to me that's how it seems. If chaos is indeed everything and nothing and it contains all possibilities, then you get both outcomes:

You become independent (LHP goal) & You merge with something greater (RHP goal).

Best of both worlds, eh?

What are your thoughts on this, @King Mob?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 10:38:15 am by Setamorphosis »
"Darkness is just light turned inside out."
  --Beelzebub

King Mob

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2017, 11:52:26 am »
That's a really interesting perspective and it reminds me of someone who gave me their view on Crowley being both middle path. While his aim was to cross the abyss and unite with the universe, there's still some self-deification his actions if not philosophy and this person speculated that he is probably around as some kind of God-form or something due to his occultism and delibarately building a myth around himself. He did everything he could to disolve into nothing including some questionable actions so maybe that could be an example of the everything and nothing of merging with chaos?

I want to say that it's animal>human>god>chaos  instinctively but I think that animal and human might be switched on the basis that human is a lot of desires we choose whereas animal is the incredibly ingrained instincts. I'm not sure, I'll pull up the book when I go to update my journal and let you know.

Back to the original point, both Judiaism and Heathenism as well as other religions believe in different aspects of the soul that go to different places. About 5 usually. I can't see why you couldn't have both a deified soul aspect and a merged soul aspect if those theories are indicative of any truths of the soul.

Chaos is usually defined as infinite possibilites including nothing so your interpretation is a fair one to make that I'm surprised I never put together with. I think the problem we get into here is that a lot of the edgier, more criminal off shoots of Anti-Cosmicism have equivalated to destructive forces thanks to their Lovecraft fetish. Lovecraftian stuff could be anti-cosmic but I find those aformentioned off-shoots have a poor philosophy when handling them. Even Thursatru falls into equating Thurses with destructive forces but I chose to view them as personifications of things in life rather than some eldritch abomination that literally wants to destroy the universe.

I think my view could reconcile your theory while the traditional views chaos gnosticism or anticosmic satanism and would make a lot of sense while prevent one from falling into the bad, extremist sects of this branch.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 11:55:12 am by King Mob »
"Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! But always unto me."- Nuit, Book of the Law.

Setamorphosis

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2017, 12:31:22 pm »
The more I think about it, the harder it is to classify the chaos path. That's the beauty of it, in my opinion. It's neither the LHP, MHP, nor the RHP. It's all at the same, yet nothing at all. Infinite possibilities, and all that (soul becoming independent, AND merging at the same time).

Now, about the edginess. Perhaps anti-cosmic is too harsh, and misleading. I'm trying to create a path, and the name that popped to my head today was this:

Acosmic Demonolatry.

What do you think? Would this be more appropriate to name this path? I don't want to destroy the universe, but transcend it by embracing chaos. That said, order also must play a role because if we have infinite possibilities, ORDER is also a possibility.

The edgy people who commit crime, thinking it's Satanic or whatever are loony, to me. First off, you can get punished. Pursuing that what benefits you the most without a severe penalty (or no penalty at all) is far more logical than being a reckless fool getting into trouble and causing mayhem because you think it's cool and empowering.

Thus, I think anti-cosmic is misleading to what I have in mind. Thanks to you, I've considered it more now.

As for the path itself, I'm going to combine elements of many traditions, with my own spin on it due to my experience. It will include:

1. Demonolatry - choosing 1 particular demon or force to align yourself with, and work with it as partners/teacher-student dynamic/embracing the archetype if you're more secular.

2. Buddhism

3. Hinduism, possibly

4. Necromancy, in a more vague sense

5. Haitian Vodoun, possibly

7. Norse Magick, specifically rune magick - utilizing the Thurisaz rune, possibly embracing the acausal, chaotic power of the Jotun.

8. Setianism, Xeper and Remanifestation being important elements, as well as cultivating The Black Flame

9. Luciferianism - Cultivating The Black Flame, intellectual and spiritual progress in a broad sense

10. Satanism, in a broad sense

11. Chaos Magick, of course

12. Ancient Sumerian elements (linked to Demonolatry)

13. Ancient Egyptian elements


That's what's coming to my mind, I may revamp the list (making it longer or shorter, or roughly the same, but replace few things).

What are your thoughts on this so far? I'm glad I've bumped into someone who's well-read about the anti-cosmic, and chaotic currents.

Edits; typos
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 01:18:00 pm by Setamorphosis »
"Darkness is just light turned inside out."
  --Beelzebub

Liu

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2017, 02:14:50 pm »
Anti-cosmic Satanism is probably the first kind of Satanism I really learnt about in a more in-depth way.

I have my metaphysical problems with it - basically because I don't believe in body-mind duality, but in awareness-information duality. All these things that anti-cosmic Satanists tend to say would be the work of our origin in chaos seems to have utterly natural causes. But it's still a beautiful approach, so full of hope. I even enjoy using its religious hymns myself as, even though I believe that Satan very much is also a deity of the cosmos, the aspects of Satan which they praise are the same ones I would.

Also, much of it can be also taken metaphorically/psychologically.
One of the theories is that to become one with the chaos, you have to sacrifice yourself three times. The first time you do this. I can't recall the order of the first two but it's human and animal selves. This leads to deification and you will have to sacrifice your God self to achieve the goal of anti-cosmicism. It seems counter-intuitive but the previous self-sacrifices do gain in power.
That notion of self-sacrifice is not new to me, but do you remember where you found this three-part version of it? I don't think I encountered it before.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding their concept, but to me that's how it seems. If chaos is indeed everything and nothing and it contains all possibilities, then you get both outcomes:

You become independent (LHP goal) & You merge with something greater (RHP goal).

Best of both worlds, eh?
Not to bring up that discussion here, but basically one of the reasons why I don't use that criterion to distinguish between the paths.
Also the Indian LHP's goal could basically be summarized (in a very simplfying manner) as consisting of these two parts.

Setamorphosis

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2017, 02:20:01 pm »
"awareness-information duality. "

Mind expanding more on this? Do you believe that we are all expressions of an infinite awareness, each and every one of us. Our individual consciousness being a point of focus, and that our brains decode the information around us, thus perceiving the world around us? That the world doesn't really exist, but it's just a product of us decoding information?

If not, I'd like to know more on this approach.

If so, that view doesn't necessarily contradict the anti-cosmic approach. It can still be reconciled.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 02:21:37 pm by Setamorphosis »
"Darkness is just light turned inside out."
  --Beelzebub

Liu

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2017, 02:38:45 pm »
"awareness-information duality. "

Mind expanding more on this? Do you believe that we are all expressions of an infinite awareness, each and every one of us. Our individual consciousness being a point of focus, and that our brains decode the information around us, thus perceiving the world around us? That the world doesn't really exist, but it's just a product of us decoding information?

If not, I'd like to know more on this approach.

If so, that view doesn't necessarily contradict the anti-cosmic approach. It can still be reconciled.
Not like I'd describe it, but that goes at least in the right direction.

Basically I believe that there are only 2 things one can know: One's own awareness, and the stuff one is aware of.
And awareness in and of itself seems to be so utterly different (if just by being without any real attributes) from what it is aware of, that I don't think it could in any way be a result of that which it's aware of. In other words, I don't believe consciousness is caused by matter but instead is its own something. Since there seem to be many conscious beings I would assume that their consciousness has some common origin, and maybe is still interrelated on some level. It possibly also means that consciousness is a general property of everything in the world, not just of living organisms - but I'm unsure about that point.

However, the rest, i.e. stuff one can be aware of, would include both the mind and the outside world. Whether that means that it doesn't "really" exist, is a matter of definition. But one's thinking seems to be based on the same laws/mechanisms that also rule the physical world, just in a much more complex manner, and viewed from a different perspective.

Because of this belief of mine I have my issues with claims found in anti-cosmic texts like if someone has anti-social or perverted or in any other way anti-nomistic urges or simply a  tendency for critical thinking then that would be caused by our origin in chaos.
Sure we can attribute all this to Satan, and sure we can decide to make use of it and enjoy it instead of suppressing it. Doesn't make it unnatural, though.

King Mob

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2017, 02:48:40 pm »
@Liu I read it in either Gap: A Left Hand Approach to Odinism or Myrkthursablot: The Nightside of Norse Mythology. Books sold by Fall of Man.

This model is inspired by the rune old english rune for Eihwaz which makes sense given the rune's associations.
"Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! But always unto me."- Nuit, Book of the Law.

Liu

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2017, 03:06:41 pm »
@Liu I read it in either Gap: A Left Hand Approach to Odinism or Myrkthursablot: The Nightside of Norse Mythology. Books sold by Fall of Man.

This model is inspired by the rune old english rune for Eihwaz which makes sense given the rune's associations.
Ah, thanks - those two are new to me.

But I agree, that fits Eihwaz not too badly from what I recall. Especially considering its Skandinavian shape ᛦ (with completely different sound value but etymologically the same name).

King Mob

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2017, 03:26:50 pm »
@Setamorphosis We'll have to keep each other updated on our practices, the approach you're forging seems to have a lot in common with what I want to do. I want to work with ascosmic forces while embracing the fact that order is a possibility and the the physical world and manifestations arent profane as it's a possibility of chaos. I didn't really have the exact wording or approach what I wanted, just an intuitive feeling of what felt right to me. Chaos is important and a cornerstone of my practice and I neither want to deny light or dark or work against either.


I think you'd benefit profoundly from looking into Daoism as the Dao is very similar to chaos.

As for the specificcs.

1. Demonolatry I like your approach. It's very Faustian but I would say to not limit yourself to demons. There are plenty of Acosmic forces you can work with, Thurs, Lovecraft Mythos, etc. You can also use chaos magic to identify and bind your own personal demons.

People write off Lovecraft but Peter J. Carrol's Esotericon has the best grimoire for Lovecraft I've ever seen that actually makes the reward of working with them tempting enough to take the risk and gives you enough protocols to do it as "safely" as possible. It's something I want to work my way up to eventually.

2. Buddhism- As I mentioned earlier, I'd suggest Daoism over Buddhism unless you are interested in the cosmology/mythology in which case study both. They're incredibly linked mythologically now.

3. Hinduism- I can't really give you any feedback here.

4. Necromancy- Necromancy is something I find interesting, in a vague sense.

5. Haitian Vodoun-The Voodoun Gnostic Workbook seems incredibly fascinating to me. There's a specific exercise in it that I bought the book for that involves use the web to astrally "time-travel" but I've yet to find the time or motivation to look over the system. It's a rather huge book.

7. Norse Magick- This is why my current paradigm is being focused on. I'm still very early on in my Rune studies but there are SO many benefits to just meditating on the Runes, let alone practice. If you really delve into the paradigm and do rune work and harvesting the traditional way, you'll gain an appreciate for nature and the physical world. Thursatru religion/books is probably of interest to you(but they're pricey) as they work with the Jotun and Thurs and have the concept of the Acosmic flame which appears to be similar to the concept black flame. There's also a gateway to some traditional folk magic through a couple of systems in the belief.

8. Setianism- I really like the Setian philosophy from what I've learned from this forum and it's newsletters. I plan on reading it more myself once I get a foundation and my current paradigm.

9. Luciferianism- I don't know enough to comment though the basic philosophy is something I agree with- Lucifer/Set/Loki as the light bringer archetype. A research into these archetypes might be beneficial in the demonalotry faustian sense as well.

10. Satanism- Seems natural.

11. Chaos Magick- If you go the chaos magic route, I highly suggest a focus on paradigm shifting. The ability to shift beliefs and personalities. It gives you a great personal understanding of what chaos means by the possibility of everything and nothing but embrancing it's full potentials in your own microcosm. It is a very stressful exercise as you will get lost in your beleifs until you tear it all down.

I'm in a rebuilding process myself which is necessary but as I said, messing around with your psychological microcosm to those extreme ammounts that frequently can have some adverse effects and isn't for everybody.

12. Ancient Sumerian elements- Seems pretty natural. I always thought working with Sumerian gods would be better than the goetic demons if you know which one corresponds to what.

13. Ancient Egyptian elements- I practed Kemeticism for quite a while and while I still believe in it, I'm letting it take a back seat temporarily but a ton of my patron/matron deities are from that belief system. It seems more beneficial to the order sign.

Also, I would recommend you look into The Typhonian Order. Crowley took a lot of influence from Buddhism and Daoism before creating Thelema and chaos magic was created by people who studied directly under Crowley and liked his general approach but disagreed with him on a lot so there's crossover there. You can gain a lot just from a study of Crowley and but I'm biased a loosely identify as a Thelemite.

However, The Typhonian Order fully embraced the Left Hand Path side of the Thelemic current and Lavenda, who lead the order, became famous for his experiments with Lovecraft mythos and either the creation or prominent use(can't remember which) of the Tunnels of Set. He also popularized the Aeon of Ma'at which is probably not of interest to anyone here but still an interesting paradigm. He also popularized the association of aliens with occultism.


I really look forward to how your path progresses because your statement of  "I don't want to destroy the universe, but transcend it by embracing chaos. That said, order also must play a role because if we have infinite possibilities, ORDER is also a possibility" is something that aligns with my current goals. I'm also really happy to meet someone who has an interest in anticosmic and chaos magic focused satanism that rejects the extremism often associated with it.

Best of luck to you, keep me updated.
"Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! But always unto me."- Nuit, Book of the Law.


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