Author Topic: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP  (Read 864 times)

Kapalika

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2017, 10:21:32 pm »
@Kapalika  That is extremely great insight about Shivaism.

Lovecraftian is a bit of weird description because I've used it a couple times here. O9A and Thursatru seem to believe in these forces that exist within the abyss, that are forces of the abyss, that only want destruction. O9A uses a lot of Lovecraftian-esque writing so I used it in there sense. I think there's a role of that in there but not in the extreme of O9A but more akin to Thursatru's work with giants which is far less extreme. Generally anticosmic forces exsit within the abyss which most people count as outside the cosmos.

I think this is accurate, the abyss is seen as the place in between this cosmos and kether by some RHP philosophies. One might see as it the bleed between the multiverse. A lot of interpretations. What existed before the big bang. Etc. Most interpret Cosmos to mean this specific universe in manifestation but I'm sure one could argue it to mean that includes everything including could bes, what-ifs, nothings.

Thanks. As far as the cosmic stuff I guess to me, knowing the alienness that can exist just within this reality I find it hard to call truly alien "not of this reality" things acosmic since so much can be beyond our comprehension anyway but I get what you mean. The "inbetweenness" of different "realities" or Universes is an interesting one I've seen in some fictional world building before. Maybe "extracosmic" as a term would work betterm just because "extra-universal" sounds kinda weird... normally in say Cosmology the Cosmos is considered all Universes. However I suppose there could be something even "outside" of that that is immaterial that could be considered acosmic which is what someone could refer to.

This is all why I kinda find it semantical. It can mean so many different things depending on how far it's being taken, and I find it important to denote intention of thought and that not get lost in the connotations of the language and symbolism.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 10:23:24 pm by Kapalika »
My Music and Blog // My Chatroom
My religion is Satanism & Trika via Vāmācāra (Left Hand path)
"God and the individual are one, to realize this is the essence of Shaivism.” - Lakshman Joo

King Mob

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2017, 11:35:01 pm »
@Kapalika  Another reason I think Acosmic and Anticosmic are used is not to describe where they come from but how they react torwards this universe. Acosmic forces are completely different and Anticosmic are seeking it's destruction.

Nameless is a pretty amazing Lovecraftian comic written by a chaos magician who knows his shit about the occult and it's pretty much him exploring the tunnels of set. He posits these forces as coming from a "evil" Universe B.
"Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! But always unto me."- Nuit, Book of the Law.

King Mob

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2017, 11:36:53 pm »
You can see a lot of Universe A/Universe B. Matter/Antimatter and so on in a lot of heady comics and sci-fi.

I thnk DC comics just updated their cosmic lore to have the Anti-matter universe as well as the Dark Matter universe.

Nameless is the only one I know that visited the topic drawing heavily from occultism instead of inevitiably drawing from some concepts almost by accident due to the nature of the plot.
"Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! But always unto me."- Nuit, Book of the Law.

King Mob

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2017, 03:53:44 pm »
Hmmm, so I have a lot to say after this after my recent initation from personal gnosis allowing me to find the common thread in a lot of these systems. The Great Perfection Doctrine really helped me to put together some things. It's view on Right Hand Path and Left Hand path seem contradictory at first to what most people would believe but when it gets into chaos, I think the reconciliation here is gnosticism.

Kether is the demi-urge, ain-sof or whatever, chaos, is the ultimate creator. The primoridal borneless one. We've got the definition of chaos already put together but the whole issue here is how is merging with chaos left hand path. We've been over this mostly but I think finishing The Great Perfection Doctrine well help my realize it. It seems to advocate a true middle path.

I've got some thoughts on it from reskimming my Thursatru books, it goes back to that nature of threefold self sacrfice as symbolized by that one rune as well as Gullveig thrice burned. Also, the draconic path which sacrifices the dragon to the hero and the hero to the God. I have a lot of ideas whirling around in my head but I don't want to post more til I've sorted them out and refined them. Further more, I'll be busy for a whole week so I won't be around too much if at all. I've found a couple practical uses for the Acosmicism and Anticosmicism and how it can apply to one's ego in a self deifying way.
 
I'm rather covinced that most of the practical sorcerous workings of this is to be found in The Book of Leviathan as well as the practical work in Apophis and Aegishjalmur. 

"Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! But always unto me."- Nuit, Book of the Law.

Setamorphosis

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2017, 03:46:04 pm »
First off, sorry about my inactivity. I'm quite busy these days as you can Imagine. :(

Secondly, I've an idea:

The consciousness is part of the void - it's partially 'chaotic.' The consciousness does not have to return to the void itself and dwell there. It can take on a new vessel. The void is the bornless creator - and by your request, it can create you a new "form." This form being your deified-self. Like an astral body. The transference of consciousness into this new form could be a form of self-defication which is true to LHP.

By presencing the power of the acausal void, you/it can create your own -- new astral body and be like the gods themselves.

Thoughts?
"Darkness is just light turned inside out."
  --Beelzebub

King Mob

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #50 on: November 15, 2017, 02:43:12 pm »
@Setamorphosis  I agree completely! There's actually some controversial ideas in the Liber Nox section of Liber Null & Psychonaut involving this. It's the basis of chaos magick in general when it gets to creation of Egregores and such, at least in the beginning. I feel chaos magic has evolved into a more psychological explanation. Including one that advocates sucide with the intention of reincarnating as your child. There's a lot on soul transference.

Chaos is the bornless one, I would agree. Now, my question, is where does Crowley's Choronzon fit into this. I honestly don't have the courage to find out at this point, as his Choronzon invocation is perhaps the seemingly most dangerous expiriment he pulled in his career. Speaking of Crowley, I honestly feel Thelema's philsophy advocate doing exactly what you said. The star one takes its place as is a new godform and crossing the abyss is delving into chaos.

However, I don't believe you should give up everything. You need to strengthen your core self so that it will remain no matter what. You need to be prepared to shed everything but the core self as it is unessecary to a godform. Perhaps careful study of the soul transference rituals in Liber Nox can point torwards a way to do this. We'd have to create a completely new soul transference ritual and- there is literally no way to prove it works. It's even more of a gamble than using existing ones.

And I apologize for not being around as well. I've been busy with various things and my studies have led me other LHP philosophies and a focus on the material. I am still very much interested in developing this path as well.
"Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! But always unto me."- Nuit, Book of the Law.

King Mob

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2017, 12:10:20 pm »
So update. If you give everything up to cross the abyss, you are only giving up false egos and selves. Your core conciousness will remain- I speculate this is the "true self/true will/ and possible even the HGA/Daemon or at least connected to it."

This is needed for the Acosmic path after studying the channeled text from Michael Kelly's Apophis as well as the Black Flame Tarot. This leads to remanifestation. Once you know your true self, you can allow your true self to play in the world in whichever way you want and then eliminate false selves when they become useless.

It's not to say this is the end goal. Even in Apophis, it's around the middle goal and the key is to remanifesting constantly to enjoy the material world.

That sounds a lot like Acosmic Path. However, I feel that the Acosmic Path should go beyond that. I need to do exercises that are on the existing paths before I break off. However, fleshing out various things such as demonalotry, wheel of desire, Scarlet Woman, heads of the dragon, etc, should bring my clarity to these paths.

Draconian is to exist as the eye in the abyss. The cold reptile that can create and uncreate reality. The goal of the Acosmic Path is to create and uncreate the self- not the false selves but our consciousness, right?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 04:20:12 pm by pi_ramesses »
"Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! But always unto me."- Nuit, Book of the Law.

Mindmaster

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2017, 03:00:12 pm »
So update. If you give everything up to cross the abyss, you are only giving up false egos and selves. Your core conciousness will remain- I speculate this is the "true self/true will/ and possible even the HGA/Daemon or at least connected to it."

I've always found the acosmic stuff to be rather obtuse and sometimes I just can't vibe with its self-loathing / nihilistic destination. I still think every LHPer should research the subject, but I always question these sorts of things because they don't jive with my spiritual understandings.

For example, I'm aware of my connection to the divine and that of others directly. If it doesn't exist why do I have that perception? :D Then there is that whole misanthropic garbage that comes with it... Again, if I see other humans as kin albeit in a strange and mysterious way and am aware that "diety" is connected to me the same way why would I want it destroyed? I don't feel special in having these awarenesses, mind you, I think anyone of significant ability will eventually see the truth of it and have access to this as well. Satan for these guys, like LaVey Satanists, is merely a puppet they use to pitch their message. Satan to me is a creator, a force of intelligence, art, and aesthetics - the raw being of the energy of what makes humanity inspired. Does that sound like it jives at all with some idea that "gods must be destroyed"? From my perspective, that's some weird suicide spiritual deathwish... It's pretty nonsensical... In the end, the acosmic thing just seems like a bunch of edgelords who have no spiritual prowess whatsoever taking up time from any sucker stupid enough to hand them money.

I don't really buy into the HGA/true will tripe either... If it is useful, you'd already be aware of it. Your individuality is actually a divine mandate, a raison d'etre, a part of you through which like a mirror the divine can see itself and have unique experiences. Again, I don't speak of beliefs - I'm just talking of my experiences... Most of the people who say they've crossed the abyss or whatever exhibit the worst level of egotism I've ever seen... :D

Setamorphosis

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2017, 03:08:09 pm »
@King Mob ,

Quote
The goal of the Acosmic Path is to create and uncreate the self- not the false selves but our conciousness, right?

Yep, and also (to me at least): to uncreate the universe, and create another, then uncreate that one, and create another. The Acosmic Satanist in the end becomes a conscious agent of Chaos who participates in the regulation of existence itself. A god, no less.

Of course, Acosmic Satanism is very individualistic. In the article that I have written for the Imperishable Star III, I've given out a mere skeleton, and left a lot to it to interpretation. I do not want any rigid dogma to be associated with Acosmic Satanism. If one wants to delve into demonolatry, then that is their choice. But by no means do I say "thou shalt work with demons." Hell, I've even mentioned TWO metaphysical entities one could work with.

@Mindmaster , clearly you have not been following the thread, and dare I say, you've also not read the original post. Your opinion is your own, at the end of the day. As I've said, this path isn't for everybody. No path is for everybody, in fact. There's always going to be someone out there who hates/dislikes/has a negative opinion of your path.

"Darkness is just light turned inside out."
  --Beelzebub

King Mob

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2017, 03:42:48 pm »
@Mindmaster

I see the true will trope as symbolism for something non-mystical. We change a lot through our lives. The true self is simply just concousness its self, the gift of Set, and our own unique conciouss that has the power to affect reality and is our true self of self, not the false selves that every magickal path, both LHP and RHP, promote letting go of.

"Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! But always unto me."- Nuit, Book of the Law.

Cabshear

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2017, 01:17:58 am »
An essential approach to the transcendence of Self beyond any perceived limitations, within the bounds of Satanism, could be possible. Certainly not seen as supernatural by any means. The Satanic Bible mentions that an Ego strong enough could possibly peer beyond the curtains of death, like a child eager to stay awake during a party, when something exciting happens. Now I don't want to take Dr. LaVey's words out of context here. A Satanist's "immortal" spirit lives on in the brains and sinews of the people they have gained respect. Consider the "immortality" of the de-facto Satanist Thomas Jefferson, who's statue stands proudly in D.C. and his noble decree that Church and State should be separate, lives on.

However, Satanism was never designed to be a religion seeking "riches in the next life" this was disregarded by Satanism. Satanism was to be the world's first and only purely carnal religion. While the pagans embraced the delights of the flesh they were not fully carnal and were steeped in all kinds of Mysticism. The best book for helping out your fellow Wiccan's on their "ancient" roots would be Razor for a Goat.

Essentially, we know nothing about what happens after death. I actually say this quite a bit in my discussions. When asked if I know what happens to me after I die I usually respond with: "I honestly have no clue what happens after I die. I don't assume anything does or doesn't happen." Maybe nothing. Maybe consciousness emerges from a continuum of CHAOS that, thru causes and conditions, re-manifest unrelated to prior lives.

I have been studying many forms of Egoism for quite sometime and the herd's individualism is easily controlled thru the idea that they need to "find themselves" rather than the Egoist/Satanic maxim that you Create yourSelf. I'll expand on this.

The herd "individual" doesn't know how to create, or forge, the self. They believe they need to find themselves. Which essentially is them picking from assorted pre-created identities formed from Social Consciousness and utilitarian values. Utilitarianism pushes the "do what feels right" for some. Slowly this "what's right for some" becomes the model of right for all, the lowest common denominator becomes the model truth and anyone that attempts to break away from that is silenced with false positivity. To continue the study on this idea see Brett Steven's book Nihilism.

IMO, to get away from this "find yourself" mold is to understand that YOU are not what you DO. This is essentially the incarcerating effects of the specter of moralism. Moralism asserts that YOU are a sinner because you sin. This limiting mindset is a big reason why many in the herd live in silent desperation for goals and dreams they will never achieve. They are wrapping up their identity in the things they do. They are their failures and mistakes, this will keep them from learning or gathering any wisdom from missing the mark.

------------------------------------

1. You are not what you do.

2. Every thing you now do, you at one point didn't know. You had to learn how to do it. So, if you had to learn how to DO something, that something doesn't make you who you are.

3. Society can easily assimilate people by associating people's actions with WHO they are. This has become a popular technique in leftist politics, identity politics.

4. You may screw up, this doesn't make you a screw up.

5. You can judge what you do, indeed judge what you do. Ask yourself if what you do is either effective or ineffective in achieving your goals. You can't judge who YOU are.

6. Thru this de-identification you learn that the Self is not the actions. Actions create results, the results for good or ill, can forge the Self.

7. The Satanist aspires to transcend Good and Evil.

The process of de-identifying the Self from the actions, can not only free the Satanist to actually forge the Self and not be left to pick from pre-packaged identities (unless the emulation of certain personalities can be used to their advantage) but it can have extending effects of self-autonomy.

Could the transcendence and expansion of the Unique One lead to a possibility of posthumous autonomy? Maybe? Is it the point of Satanism? I say no.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 11:17:39 am by Cabshear »
I say: liberate yourself as far as you can, and you have done your part; for it is not given to every one to break through all limits, or, more expressively, not to everyone is that a limit which is a limit for the rest. - Max Stirner, The Ego and it's Own

King Mob

Re: Need Opinions: Anti-Cosmic Approach to LHP
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2017, 01:51:18 pm »
@Setamorphosis Sorry it's been a while, I've been busy with school and I had to step away from this paradigm briefly and focus on other ones. Oddly, going back to my roots has pointed me here.

Reading the Illustrate Goetia, Crowley indentifies god as the Borneless One which sounds a lot like chaos. Behemoth actually has a satanic version of this ritual as their lyrics in one song too which ties it more together for me.

Reading Peter J Carrol's later works have got me to considerably re-think the concept of chaos and how humanity and the niverse resembles it.

I'm gonna finally get around to reading your article in TIS III today(sorry, school and stuffs) and respond after I get where your current foundation is and process where mine is in relation.

Really look forward to developing this further  :mrgreen:

Also, I find something that is useful for me is following other traditions and stripping it down to the bare basics and pondering how it relates to chaos, and creation and destruction of universes. This thought will lead me down some interesting rabbit holes in the future.

Can't wait to see where this goes.
"Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! But always unto me."- Nuit, Book of the Law.


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