Author Topic: Setians and the Forth Way  (Read 155 times)

Mike

Setians and the Forth Way
« on: September 08, 2017, 07:53:14 am »
I'm interested in hearing what folk think about Gurdjieff's idea of individualization as a process of self- creation (that we are not a self but a conflicted bundle of selves that must become a self through effort) in relation to Left Hand Path ideas of the Self and Xeper.

"One of man’s important mistakes, one which must be remembered, is his illusion in regard to his I. Man such as we know him, the "man-machine," the man who cannot "do," and with whom and through whom everything "happens," cannot have a permanent and single I. His I changes as quickly as his thoughts, feelings and moods, and he makes a profound mistake in considering himself always one and the same person; in reality he is always a different person, not the one he was a moment ago".

"Without self knowledge, without understanding the working and functions of his machine, man cannot be free, he cannot govern himself and he will always remain a slave."

- In Search of the Miraculous: Fragments of an Unknown Teaching.


Onyx

Re: Setians and the Forth Way
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2017, 09:18:03 am »
The full text for those interested:
http://www.gurdjieff.am/in-search/index.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Way#Teachings_and_teaching_methods

I think there is a single "I". The human body is continually working to preserve itself, and I wouldn't conflate those processes with the soul, mindstar, personal form, or whatever. Something like "hunger" is not part of my "I", but rather something that could inhibit my inherent potential if left to run amok. The expansion of consciousness is a conscious effort, and we have the ability to escape the entropic forces we face, rather than accept them as part of our being.




« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 09:34:28 am by Onyx »

Xepera maSet

Re: Setians and the Forth Way
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2017, 01:41:19 pm »
I think there is a permanent I, the platonic self. Yes we grow moment to moment, but that's just a manifestation of our Form anyways. I wouldn't confuse growth with categorical change, past me and present me are still very much a single, distinct, identifiable entity.
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

pi_ramesses

Re: Setians and the Forth Way
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2017, 02:24:53 pm »
In almost the same way that I see the paradox of Theseus's ship, I can still recognize the ship for what it is by its Form. The replacement of the ship's parts does not take away from it. Typically, I would think that ships are remodeled with the intention of improving it although they are not identical. I think the analogy fits. The Form of a human would be his or her psyche or soul.
Pro omnis dominos viae sinistra, sic itur ad astra
Nylfmedli14

Xepera maSet

Re: Setians and the Forth Way
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2017, 11:26:41 am »
[Admin bump]
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."