Author Topic: The history of Lucifer  (Read 208 times)

Sutekh

The history of Lucifer
« on: September 04, 2017, 03:18:00 pm »
I wanted to make a thread based on the history of Lucifer himself of whom he is referred to as the "Morning Star," or the "Planet Venus."

 I understand that Lucifer was considered to be a Roman God and that he wasn't necessarily considered a bad man unlike he is portrayed within Christianity.

My question is this, did Christianity reversed Lucifer as an evil being? Or did the Christian religion stole this deity in general?
"Our collective ambition is that the membership of the Order of the Serpent also serves as guardians of the Black Flame and collaborates with the Prince of Darkness in the Infernal Mandate of re-creating the Cosmos in the eternal glory of the Setian Will!"-Setamontet

Setamorphosis

Re: The history of Lucifer
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2017, 03:24:38 pm »
I would actually like to challenge this notion that Lucifer was a Roman God. There aren't any myths or records that I know of that depict a god called Lucifer.

The Greek word "Phosphorus;" Latin: Lucifer refers to the personification of the Morning Star. Venus. There's a very good distinction between a personification of something and an actual god, or what have you.

It's also worth noting that the great virgin goddesses (Aphrodite, Astarte, Isis, etc) were also referred as "Lucifer."

Lucifer is not a name, but a title (Light Bearer / Morning Star - something which Jesus was also called), or a metaphor.

I think the notion that Lucifer was an actual full-on Roman god originated from Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible. You'd be surprised how much influence that book had.

But, historically, I doubt there was a god called Lucifer. Sure, there were Christian cults venerating another Lucifer, but that's a different matter altogether.

Now, Christians misunderstood Lucifer completely. The word "lucifer" (lower case letter) is used ONCE in the Bible, referring to a Babylonian King. I can't remember who it was that lumped Satan and Lucifer together, and propagated the false myth.

I apologize if my post is rushed and all over the place; I'm in a hurry at the moment. If needed, I can expand on all of this later.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 03:28:46 pm by Ave Lucifugus »
a.k.a. Ave Lucifugus

Deidre

Re: The history of Lucifer
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2017, 03:31:14 pm »
Christianity doesn't teach that Satan is a deity. The story goes that he was an angel, and rebelled against God, and was banished by God to rule over the earth. (and potentially hell) But, there is some interpretation issues with these stories, but I'm reading the Bible again now for my own edification (I'm a former Christian) and it seems clear that he was never considered a deity, but rather a 'fallen angel.' I think that he's only viewed as evil in Christianity, because the Bible implies that if one is listening to anyone other than God, he/she must be following something evil, or is an idolater. Most Christians don't necessarily view Satanists as evil, but rather as idolaters.
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

Setamorphosis

Re: The history of Lucifer
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2017, 03:34:16 pm »
Deidre, once you finish reading the Bible, I highly recommend reading Books of Enoch (there's a free pdf on the internet, all books). There you'll see what else inspired the idea of Satan being a fallen angel, the leader of demons, fallen angels, etc.

Azazel, as depicted in the story of the Fall of the Watchers, matches the profile of New Testament Satan quite well, if you ask me.
a.k.a. Ave Lucifugus

Wrathful_Demon777

  • Guest
Re: The history of Lucifer
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2017, 03:47:03 pm »
Deidre, might want to take a look at your bible again. According to 2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV) Satan is the "god of this world."

Deidre

Re: The history of Lucifer
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2017, 03:57:18 pm »
Deidre, might want to take a look at your bible again. According to 2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV) Satan is the "god of this world."

Yea, but Christians don't view Lucifer as a deity, in that sense. Christians only follow the 'one true God' and that is the God of Abraham. But, I guess it could be said that if one were to 'follow' Lucifer, that he/she would be an idolater.
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

crossfire

Re: The history of Lucifer
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2017, 04:28:06 pm »
I would actually like to challenge this notion that Lucifer was a Roman God. There aren't any myths or records that I know of that depict a god called Lucifer.
While this isn't about a god, it is a story about the Morning Star from Buddhism:
When Buddha was meditating under the east side of the Bodhi Tree, he became enlightened upon seeing the Morning Star arise during the third watch of the night. The Morning Star is called osadhī tārakā in Buddhism, which means "medicine star" or "healing star." The Dhamma is the medicine for healing suffering.


“When I saw the morning star emerge, I was enlightened simultaneously with the whole of the great earth and all its sentient beings.”

Quote
<...>
Now, Christians misunderstood Lucifer completely. The word "lucifer" (lower case letter) is used ONCE in the Bible, referring to a Babylonian King. I can't remember who it was that lumped Satan and Lucifer together, and propagated the false myth.

I apologize if my post is rushed and all over the place; I'm in a hurry at the moment. If needed, I can expand on all of this later.
Actually, lucifer is also mentioned at 2 Peter 1:19
 2 Peter 1:19Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

19 So we have the prophetic word strongly confirmed. You will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dismal place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.


II Petri 1:19Biblia Sacra Vulgata (VULGATE)

19 et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 04:35:34 pm by crossfire »
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

Sutekh

Re: The history of Lucifer
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2017, 05:48:59 pm »
Quote
I think the notion that Lucifer was an actual full-on Roman god originated from Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible. You'd be surprised how much influence that book had.

The book also had an influence on me as well. When I was beginning my path I adhered to LaVeys Philosophy, this was even before I read his literature.

His book however has influenced me along the way on the concepts of Magic. His book was perhaps an eye opener for me.

Today I am not entirely an adherent to LaVey, I am more or less of a theist.
"Our collective ambition is that the membership of the Order of the Serpent also serves as guardians of the Black Flame and collaborates with the Prince of Darkness in the Infernal Mandate of re-creating the Cosmos in the eternal glory of the Setian Will!"-Setamontet

Sutekh

Re: The history of Lucifer
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2017, 06:02:01 pm »
Quote
I apologize if my post is rushed and all over the place; I'm in a hurry at the moment. If needed, I can expand on all of this later.

The thing that I am trying to tackle down is if the Christians borrowed this concept of Lucifer by classifying him as some evil being.

I understand some people may assume that I classify him as a deity in Christianity but I wasn't necessarily trying to say that Christianity chose him as a deity.

Being a former Christian myself I understand he is depicted as a fallen angel in Christianity if I am correct.
"Our collective ambition is that the membership of the Order of the Serpent also serves as guardians of the Black Flame and collaborates with the Prince of Darkness in the Infernal Mandate of re-creating the Cosmos in the eternal glory of the Setian Will!"-Setamontet

crossfire

Re: The history of Lucifer
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2017, 06:52:08 pm »
Quote
I apologize if my post is rushed and all over the place; I'm in a hurry at the moment. If needed, I can expand on all of this later.

The thing that I am trying to tackle down is if the Christians borrowed this concept of Lucifer by classifying him as some evil being.
As Christianity became a powerful institution, the idea of enlightenment by ones own means and not through the Church was indeed seen as an "evil" thing.

"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

Mike

Re: The history of Lucifer
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2017, 08:37:26 am »
I think it makes more sense to regard the Christian Lucifer as a conceptual synthesis belonging to Christian theology. Crossfire gives the game away when he quotes from the Vulgate because the English bible derives its use of the word entirely from that source. However biblical passages alluding to Lucifer and Satan clearly are talking about a variety of things. Thus “phōsphoros" (lucifer) in 2 Peter 1:19, which occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, is JC (JC calls himself "the bright morning star" in Revelation 22:16 but the word used there isn't “phōsphoros" or lucifer!)
As Setamorphosis notes, Lucifer appears in Isaiah 14 in the KJV/Douay-Rheims because of the Vulgate, but most modern translations eschew the name and most modern Bible scholars see no reference whatsoever to a supernatural being in this passage (as Setamorphosis also notes).  So basically, rather than Christians taking and corrupting a pre-existing deity, the received story is all ex post hoc hermeneutics admixed with Jewish speculation regarding fallen angels (though have a look at http://thetorah.com/reintroducing-the-myth-of-the-fallen-angels/ because it’s a good examination of how this speculation may depend ultimately on a poorly digested “ Jewish version of a supernatural myth filled with giants, demigods, and irresistible seductresses”).


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