Author Topic: I need your help with a particular idea I have  (Read 276 times)

Setamorphosis

I need your help with a particular idea I have
« on: August 22, 2017, 04:55:44 am »
I'm planning to write, and post a model of what I call the Infernal Hierarchy. It's based on Platonic Complex Forms. However, I'd appreciate if you were to help me sort these following Forms from the most necessary (to humans) to the least.

The first one, I think is pretty obvious which is the Form of Consciousness. I think that Form of Knowledge should share the #1 spot with the Form of Consciousness, but if you disagree, let me know.

Here are the forms, however, which I'm not yet sure how to sort:

Form of Will

Form of Desire

Form of Beauty

Form of Progress/Advancement

Form of Love

Form of Benevolence

Form of Power/Strength
a.k.a. Ave Lucifugus

Deidre

Re: I need your help with a particular idea I have
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2017, 11:02:40 am »
Form of Conscience, I would add
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

Setamontet

Re: I need your help with a particular idea I have
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2017, 11:38:16 am »
Just some thoughts that came to my mind for a "Infernal Hierarchy";

1.  Form of Mind/consciousness/intellect

2.  Form of Will/desire

3.  Form of Xeper/progression/spiritual evolution

4.  Form of Sekhem/power/strength

5.  Form of Balance

6.  Form of Beauty

7.  Form of Love/benevolence

8.  Form of Aggression/malevolence

9.  Form of Conscience/ethics
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 12:04:40 pm by Setamontet »

"Arise in your glory, behold the genius of your creation, and be prideful of being,
for I am the same - I who am the Highest of Life." - The Word of Set

Xepera maSet

Re: I need your help with a particular idea I have
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2017, 01:45:38 pm »
I would say that the top of the hierarchy has to be the Form of Order which is required for Consciousness to form and then separate itself from. Chaos above order maybe.
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

pi_ramesses

Re: I need your help with a particular idea I have
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 07:16:50 pm »
It seems to me that consciousness precedes knowledge. But the special case of awakening can be characterized as a different Consciousness of itself. My ranking of your list came out the same as @Setamontet without the Conscience part. I actually had not thought of ethics until reading that part by @Deidre .
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 02:40:21 am by pi_ramesses »
Pro omnis dominos viae sinistra, sic itur ad astra
Nylfmedli14

Deidre

Re: I need your help with a particular idea I have
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2017, 07:29:09 pm »
Without a state of consciousness, none of the other forms exist. Consciousness is merely awareness, without awareness, nothing else will flow from it. We don't control our consciousness, we are either aware or we're not. (like someone in perhaps a hospitalized state who is alive, but unaware or unconscious)
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

Setamorphosis

Re: I need your help with a particular idea I have
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2017, 06:38:15 am »
Thank you so much for all your replies! I'll write and post the hierarchy model soon.
a.k.a. Ave Lucifugus

Mike

Re: I need your help with a particular idea I have
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2017, 03:34:23 am »
I'm possibly coming a bit late to this, however...
“I'd appreciate if you were to help me sort these following Forms from the most necessary (to humans) to the least”.
May I suggest a collocation to your Infernal Hierachy in the idea of an Infernal constellation. I’ve been thrashing round the internet looking for a half decent (vaguely intelligible) description of the Adorno/Benjamin concept of the constellation and found this:“a constellation involves various elements in array or juxtaposition, rather than in a ranked or se-quenced order. In this way, the critic better understands the various relationships among the individual elements or the elements taken as a  group”http://www.blackwellreference.com/public/tocnode?id=g9781405183123_chunk_g97814051831235_ss1-6.
This model alleviates the problem of privileging one Form over another in a hierarchically entailed manner.

Xepera maSet

Re: I need your help with a particular idea I have
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2017, 05:26:41 am »
I'm possibly coming a bit late to this, however...
“I'd appreciate if you were to help me sort these following Forms from the most necessary (to humans) to the least”.
May I suggest a collocation to your Infernal Hierachy in the idea of an Infernal constellation. I’ve been thrashing round the internet looking for a half decent (vaguely intelligible) description of the Adorno/Benjamin concept of the constellation and found this:“a constellation involves various elements in array or juxtaposition, rather than in a ranked or se-quenced order. In this way, the critic better understands the various relationships among the individual elements or the elements taken as a  group”http://www.blackwellreference.com/public/tocnode?id=g9781405183123_chunk_g97814051831235_ss1-6.
This model alleviates the problem of privileging one Form over another in a hierarchically entailed manner.


I'd love to hear more on this.
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

pi_ramesses

Re: I need your help with a particular idea I have
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2017, 08:00:58 am »
I'm possibly coming a bit late to this, however...
“I'd appreciate if you were to help me sort these following Forms from the most necessary (to humans) to the least”.
May I suggest a collocation to your Infernal Hierachy in the idea of an Infernal constellation. I’ve been thrashing round the internet looking for a half decent (vaguely intelligible) description of the Adorno/Benjamin concept of the constellation and found this:“a constellation involves various elements in array or juxtaposition, rather than in a ranked or se-quenced order. In this way, the critic better understands the various relationships among the individual elements or the elements taken as a  group”http://www.blackwellreference.com/public/tocnode?id=g9781405183123_chunk_g97814051831235_ss1-6.
This model alleviates the problem of privileging one Form over another in a hierarchically entailed manner.


Yes. This hearkens to some ideas on the constellation in Dendera. Continue...
Pro omnis dominos viae sinistra, sic itur ad astra
Nylfmedli14

Sutekh

Re: I need your help with a particular idea I have
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2017, 09:37:34 am »
Quote
My ranking of your list came out the same as @Setamontet without the Conscience part. I actually had not thought of ethics until reading that part by @Deidre .

What is interesting about having a conscience or ethics is that when one such as myself is within the dark path, we often forget that we have a conscience or ethics.

Until we realize that we naturally have an ethical side of things, their were many times I tried to stay amoral but I realized that it is impossible to stay amoral when one subconsciously has a sort of ethics.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 09:39:17 am by Sutekh »
"Our collective ambition is that the membership of the Order of the Serpent also serves as guardians of the Black Flame and collaborates with the Prince of Darkness in the Infernal Mandate of re-creating the Cosmos in the eternal glory of the Setian Will!"-Setamontet

pi_ramesses

Re: I need your help with a particular idea I have
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2017, 03:38:43 pm »
Quote
My ranking of your list came out the same as @Setamontet without the Conscience part. I actually had not thought of ethics until reading that part by @Deidre .

What is interesting about having a conscience or ethics is that when one such as myself is within the dark path, we often forget that we have a conscience or ethics.

Until we realize that we naturally have an ethical side of things, their were many times I tried to stay amoral but I realized that it is impossible to stay amoral when one subconsciously has a sort of ethics.



I found this to be true in my experience as well even whilst I ascribed to Pyrrhonian scepticism.
Pro omnis dominos viae sinistra, sic itur ad astra
Nylfmedli14

Mike

Re: I need your help with a particular idea I have
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 09:08:34 am »
Regarding the concept of the constellation: I’d love to provide something more helpful but Googling the subject is a vertiginous experience, since you end up with discussions of discussions of discussions... [In fact Google Benjamin and/or Adorno and prepare to lose several days of your life]. So I’m afraid this is just my bite sized sketch. Just as in an astronomical constellation, a constellation is structured by the relations between its objects and at the same time its arrangement endows those objects with an overall identity. Benjamin himself offered it as a way to break with traditional hierarchies of representation which he basically sees as extorted and indeed reflecting a broader culture of extortion. For Benjamin this way of representation is “envisioned in the encircling dance of represented Ideas” (an attractively gnomic phrase). There is an elaboration of Benjamin’s notion here: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/benjamin/#BarCon (but I think it fair to describe it as tending to the opaque, which,  given the above...).
In terms of visual representation, the Enneagram figure has already appeared in the forum, and as sage Heraclitus says "beginning and end are general in the circumference of the circle"[103].

Xepera maSet

Re: I need your help with a particular idea I have
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2017, 03:05:37 pm »
[Admin bump]
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."


xx
Very early idea: a better way to define the E/W R/LHP.

Started by Xepera maSet on General LHP Discussion

4 Replies
246 Views
Last post June 20, 2017, 04:10:31 pm
by Xepera maSet
xx
Your idea of a deity/deities

Started by Deidre on General LHP Discussion

8 Replies
243 Views
Last post September 15, 2017, 11:01:29 pm
by King Mob