Author Topic: What's dogma?  (Read 247 times)

Kapalika

What's dogma?
« on: August 16, 2017, 01:39:46 pm »
Something I've actually been thinking of a for a few days... this isn't because of any other post or poster here although it did cause me to consider it more and I figured now would be a good time to share where I'm at with my thoughts.

Which is that people tend to harp on dogma. Not just here and other forums online but IRL too I notice this at a spiritual group I sometimes meet with or a UU church I go to sporadically.

From what I can tell dogma is a set of beliefs that are thought to be unquestionable. Okay, anything unquestionable isn't the most rational always but we actually do this all the time. It's the dogma of our society that rape and murder is wrong and that freedom and equality is good for example. To reject these makes one immoral.

But a lot of what I see described as dogma is actually just sincerely held beliefs. In particular it seems the more wishy-washy types who don't have fixed principles tend to label those who do and are confident in the evidence and reasoning of their religious positions as having dogma. Perhaps to that person, it is not dogma but just their principles and beliefs.

I think though, what's important to keep in mind is that one can have dogma without being dogmatic. Or in other words one can have convictions without necessitating that others around them accept them.

This seems to make sense so long as we talk about religion... but when we touch on politics or morality it kind of falls apart. We all vote for those who will pursue our values the best and we all think that we should enforce our morality of not murdering people or raping on everyone, even people who might not agree. We also think freedom should be enforced sometimes through violent revolution (America's founding, anyone?). Such actions are more dogmatic than insistence that one's "dogma" or beliefs are correct.

So with all that said, I'm not sure what it means to say one has dogma or is dogmatic. In the latter sense it can mean they are just being an asshole about it. And sure, that happens. But I think sometimes the term is over applied to just dismiss anyone who is prepared to explain and standby their convictions. They think it's true, so of course to them it seems the rational and "right" view.

Anyways those are my thoughts... anything wrong with them? Right with them? A thought... if one tries to disprove dogma as good, would that be a dogmatic view as well? Since it's unqestionable that dogma is always bad? And if not, who decides what dogma is good? I'm sure we can all agree that murder is bad and freedom good... but what makes us any more right to make that dogma than anyone else? This might seem an extremeish view but I hold similar views on most things when it comes to morality.
 
Just some thoughts... so ya, anything wrong or right with this reasoning? Anything anyone agrees with or disagrees with? Just what's been bouncing around in my head this last couple of weeks.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 01:41:31 pm by Kapalika »
My Music and Blog // My Chatroom
My religion is Satanism & Trika via Vāmācāra (Left Hand path)
"God and the individual are one, to realize this is the essence of Shaivism.” - Lakshman Joo

pi_ramesses

Re: What's dogma?
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2017, 01:55:27 pm »
How do you treat philosophical sceptics in your view? Sceptics claim to have no beliefs and eschew dogma (unlike modern skeptics). I am referring to the Academic Sceptics (ie. Cicero) and even worse Pyrrhonists (ie. Sextus Empiricus) who held that the former were negative dogmatists and furthermore, that they are truly the ones practicing the Socratic method as intended.
Pro omnis dominos viae sinistra, sic itur ad astra
Nylfmedli14

Deidre

Re: What's dogma?
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2017, 02:10:27 pm »
In general terms, it means (to me) when someone is rigidly holding onto views either that are religious in nature or philosophical. Atheists can even be dogmatic in how they feel other atheists should perceive atheism, as a whole. When I start reading or hearing "I'm right, you're wrong" when it comes to interpretations of the spiritual or philosophical kind, I tend to tune out because the person is clinging to dogma. So if I don't answer, there's the reason. :D
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

Kapalika

Re: What's dogma?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2017, 06:18:48 am »
How do you treat philosophical sceptics in your view? Sceptics claim to have no beliefs and eschew dogma (unlike modern skeptics). I am referring to the Academic Sceptics (ie. Cicero) and even worse Pyrrhonists (ie. Sextus Empiricus) who held that the former were negative dogmatists and furthermore, that they are truly the ones practicing the Socratic method as intended.

I think that everyone has a belief of some kind, even if it is the belief in no belief. Also you can believe and know something at the same time. So in the sense that one doesn't believe in anything they can't reasonably know maybe... but then we also assume tings to be true on little evidence. Say I said "oh I went to the store today" why would you not believe me unless I had a clear motive to lie about it? You don't *know* I went, but you will most likely believe me if  I say so without a thought.

I think it would be extremely hard if not impossible to go through life without having beliefs that are not based on direct knowledge. Sure you can minimize those beliefs to what is reasonable and rational but you can't get rid of them entirely I feel like.

In general terms, it means (to me) when someone is rigidly holding onto views either that are religious in nature or philosophical. Atheists can even be dogmatic in how they feel other atheists should perceive atheism, as a whole. When I start reading or hearing "I'm right, you're wrong" when it comes to interpretations of the spiritual or philosophical kind, I tend to tune out because the person is clinging to dogma. So if I don't answer, there's the reason. :D

It seems to me most people of those positions will believe they are right, and tuning them out might be a lost chance to learn another perspective. I think most people ourselves included feel that we beleive the correct idea and that those who contradict us are logically wrong.
My Music and Blog // My Chatroom
My religion is Satanism & Trika via Vāmācāra (Left Hand path)
"God and the individual are one, to realize this is the essence of Shaivism.” - Lakshman Joo

Xepera maSet

Re: What's dogma?
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2017, 03:06:07 pm »
[Admin bump]
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

King Mob

Re: What's dogma?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 02:05:30 pm »
It's an amazing movie with Jay and Silent Bob in it.

Sorry, couldn't resist the chance to be a smart-ass.
"Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! But always unto me."- Nuit, Book of the Law.