Author Topic: What are your beliefs about Satan?  (Read 3141 times)

NEMO 93

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #60 on: September 15, 2017, 12:56:23 am »
I am personally not a fan of judeo-christian mythology or imagery beyond the bare minimum is included in Thelema and even then I used it as a road map for reference for various other practices and workings when possible. I feel that Deities/Egregors can be changed by how they are percieved and I could never trust the traditional Christian world view. Maybe Gnosticism but I don't see them having a positive view on Satan at all either. So, I like the Archetype, distrust the Satan and Christian forms of it.

I prefer to study the darker aspects mythology or more preferrably my own willpower and my own shadow. At least this you can trust the dark tricksters to not be trustworthy and often have their own ends. Their deciets are well recorded due to their egotistical nature whereas the Christian Prometheus is known for being ominous and mysterious which is part of his appeal. You could lump Hekate into the dangerous to try to read because of their mysteries as well but even Hekate had to make her power and style immortalized in MacBeth.

Of course, this doesn't mean Satan isn't useful. It can be useful for transgressing any Christian fears or taboos left in your or as a measure to see how much Christian doctrine you still have in your subconcious effecting you. There's also a great argument that due to the uprise of Satanism, Luciferianism, the memes about Satan being a good guy of the bible from athiests, and so on he's been broken free from Christian mold to be more true to his original Promethean nature.

Xepera maSet

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Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2017, 04:26:21 pm »
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"The Dragon became as a many-headed Serpent,
It's fiery tongues bearing forth speech
Into all the kingoms of the Earth."


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NEMO 93

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #62 on: November 05, 2017, 02:58:16 am »
So over a month later, I'm still not a fan of the Satan imagery but I can strongly resonate with Lucifer and Luciferianism. Lucifer seems to highlight the most positive traits of Satan, in my opinion, and can easily be separate from Dogma where I feel the traditional figure of Satan is limiting even if you see it as a updating of Pan.

NEMO 93

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #63 on: November 05, 2017, 03:00:00 am »
I mean I'm definitely being pedantic and sematical here as the imagery, philosophy, and everything crosses over but if we're talking about the figure its self as well as the slight differences between the philosophy of the followers, definitely like the Lucifer fellow more.

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Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #64 on: January 21, 2018, 04:43:54 pm »
I'd say simply that the Prince of Darkness is that which is separate from nature and free of will, the first, who bestowed the gift upon others. Satan is an aspect of this being related to the adversity of the Self towards mindless Nature.

"The Dragon became as a many-headed Serpent,
It's fiery tongues bearing forth speech
Into all the kingoms of the Earth."


My book, "Behold: the Prince of Darkness!": https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1726037460/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1726037460

Olive

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2018, 06:10:30 am »
I am personally not a fan of judeo-christian mythology or imagery beyond the bare minimum is included in Thelema and even then I used it as a road map for reference for various other practices and workings when possible. I feel that Deities/Egregors can be changed by how they are percieved and I could never trust the traditional Christian world view. Maybe Gnosticism but I don't see them having a positive view on Satan at all either. So, I like the Archetype, distrust the Satan and Christian forms of it.

Thank you. Christianity has been so twisted and manipulated that it takes an almost ridiculous amount of untangling to get the useful concept and archetypes out of it, or anything resembling a wise understanding of this existence. (At least for me - no offense meant to any practicing christians.)

I bring a gnostic paradigm to my interpretations of scripture, which is sharp enough to cut through a lot of the confusion there. Satan is particularly complicated because the modern conception of him seems to be the result of smashing together at least 3 different entities.

Judaism says that God contains both good and evil (Which may be true, but we can argue the creator god is an almost entirely maleificient being). As far as I can tell, Ha-Satan was originally meant to be a way of talking about his dark side, that was so often moved to harm and destroy man. Eventually the concept of divine intermediaries was introduced to and accepted by Hebrew culture, and it became understood that God delegated his work to certain beings that were cut out for the job. Originally YHWH himself would turn punishment upon man in his anger, but later these works were attributed to his intermediary, Satan. A good example of this change is made clear if one examines 2 Samuel 24:1 in the Hebrew bible, which describes YHWH turning his wrath upon man directly. This is reformed in 1 Chronicles 21:1 as "And Satan stood up against Israel..." - directly attributing the actions of God to Satan.

This is probably where the negative interpretations of Satan in Gnosticism arise, @King Mob. You can say that a Gnostic is against Satan, but only in the sense that he is an extension of the will of the Demiurge. In other places in Christian tradition, Satan is mentioned as "Prince of the Air", "King of Hell", and even (tellingly) "God of this World." Gnostics certainly do oppose this force, but it is not what we know here as the Prince of Darkness, or Lucifer, but instead refers to the actions of the Demiurge, or what some people call God.

--

The second part of the modern Satan is the aforementioned Prince of Darkness.  I called him Lucifer to differentiate, although that name may not be totally appropriate. This is the Promethean figure, the Serpent, the first betrayer of God. He is the one who gives Man the ability to comprehend and understand his existence - the ability to differentiate himself from the other beasts of this world. He offers the fruit of the tree of knowledge. Woman takes it of her own volition, and man is convinced to join her.

Knowledge of what, exactly? Knowledge of Good and Evil (Gnosis). Namely, that they themselves, their lifestyles, life itself, and even the architect of all this, their God, were all Evil. Those things had the nature of ignorance, cruelty, carnality, toil, and vampirism. What was Good was still very far away from them indeed.

We say today that Adam and Eve were removed from paradise for their transgressions. More realistically, they realized that there had never been a paradise. They (and all humans before them) had lived lives of plenty only at the expense of other creatures. They had been naked and shameless and dirty, not comprehending the grossness of their situation - not even comprehending death. Is it any wonder that they cowered in fear from their captor when he returned to see what had become of his faithful pets? Seeing and understanding the full dread of his face for the first time would have been quite the experience.

So Adam and Eve gained self-awareness, and Gnosis, but they were not happier for it. They and their descendants lived a hard life where sustenance could be had only through cruelty, and dignity could be won only through great pains. But at least they no longer lived in utter delusion. And the gifts they had received were as of yet but seeds, which could be nurtured and cultivated and would ultimately allow for salvation and redemption from this life.

The main point is, this archetype is not actually concerned with carnality or material indulgence. It's an anti-cosmic energy. Theologically Lucifer rejects the ways of Demiurgos and goes against the ways of the world i.e. blind productivity, ignorance, craving, reproduction and death. Symbolically he represents the spark within us that allows us to do the same. Several things actually. Rejecting the ways of nature to take control of our own manifestations, and perhaps even to seek liberation or to go beyond this world entirely.



The third archetype I see in the modern Satan is the multitude of traits he picked up from pagan influences. There is an obvious Pan connection, but I would also mention the Horned Master and Cernunnos. But I've written enough for now, I'll leave the discussion of those for others more qualified until I revisit this.

The reason it seems so confused is that it is a combination of the anti-cosmic Serpent and the carnal Demiurgos. But that produces very striking iconography which I admit I do appreciate a good deal. We sorta preserve the duality of these sides of Satan even now because we either show him as a beautiful fallen angel or a powerful beast-like demon. I enjoy the gender bending depictions of either entity. It just makes sense because he represents the journey and potential of all humans, male and female. It is powerful symbolically for keeping in mind the hermetic principle of polarity. I've included a couple examples.


(angelic)   [ Invalid Attachment ]
(demonic)  [ Invalid Attachment ]
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 06:20:11 am by Olive »
    Art thou pale for weariness
Of climbing heaven, and gazing on the earth,
     Wandering companionless
Among the stars that have a different birth, -
And ever-changing, like a joyless eye
That finds no object worth its constancy?

-Percy Bysshe Shelley

Liu

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #66 on: January 25, 2018, 01:35:29 pm »
Great summary @Olive.
That shows pretty well how it can be that us Satanists arrive at such different conclusions about the nature of our deity - some focus more on some aspects of it, some more on others, but they seem to me a bit like the elephant and the blind. Not that I'd claim to already know that it's an elephant, but at least I know that I'm as blind as them.

it seems like I didn't state my own beliefs in this thread yet.
Once again, I have to say that from all people who posted here I find myself in most agreement with @Kapalika
 (here)

To me, Satan is the best representation for what I'd refer to as the divine, i.e. the underlying something of which reality is a manifestation.
It's a try to personify and relate to something fairly abstract, with a special focus on those aspects of the divine that the Satanist in question has the most direct connection to, especially their own will and subconscious, and those things they value.
I'm agnostic to the actual metaphysical details, I just know that I'm a devotee of this, that it helps me, and that I feel that I am ruled by it. I love it.

If spirits/polytheistic deites do in fact exist, I would assume that some or all of the entities referred to as Satan exist as well on their own or under different names.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 01:39:23 pm by Liu »