Author Topic: What are your beliefs about Satan?  (Read 866 times)

Setamontet

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2017, 11:21:43 am »
To be honest, for the past many years the name of Satan holds only an LBM significance to me, "shock value" and nothing more.  I only invoke Satan in my black metal lyrics, and even then, not that often.

"Arise in your glory, behold the genius of your creation, and be prideful of being,
for I am the same - I who am the Highest of Life." - The Word of Set

Deidre

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2017, 08:46:00 am »
I've decided to read some ancient texts again, the Bible being one, and I don't know if I've ever really thoroughly read the Lucifer/Satan/fallen angel story, but read it yesterday and it's interesting.
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

Xepera maSet

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2017, 08:52:13 am »
I've decided to read some ancient texts again, the Bible being one, and I don't know if I've ever really thoroughly read the Lucifer/Satan/fallen angel story, but read it yesterday and it's interesting.

Ummmmmm, there's no such story in the Bible to my knowledge.
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Setamontet

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2017, 08:59:17 am »
Some excellent renditions of the story of Lucifer's exile I like are "The Diabolicon" by Michael Aquino and "Paradise Lost" by John Milton.

"Arise in your glory, behold the genius of your creation, and be prideful of being,
for I am the same - I who am the Highest of Life." - The Word of Set

Deidre

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2017, 10:05:27 am »
I've decided to read some ancient texts again, the Bible being one, and I don't know if I've ever really thoroughly read the Lucifer/Satan/fallen angel story, but read it yesterday and it's interesting.

Ummmmmm, there's no such story in the Bible to my knowledge.

Yes, there actually is.

I found these passages in Isaiah, Luke, Job and Zechariah - all specifically discussing how Lucifer was considered "God's favorite" angel and how he didn't "become" Satan until after he was cast out of the heavens by God. He was cast out with other angels as the stories go and it's believed that these cast out angels who rebelled with Lucifer are now demons.

These stories are in the Bible.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 10:09:56 am by Deidre »
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

Xepera maSet

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2017, 10:12:27 am »
Interesting! I don't know the NT well anymore, but the story of Isaiah is actually about the king of babylon. The term Lucifer only came in with the KJV, and is a title misused for helel, "shining one."
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Deidre

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2017, 11:44:19 am »
Interesting! I don't know the NT well anymore, but the story of Isaiah is actually about the king of babylon. The term Lucifer only came in with the KJV, and is a title misused for helel, "shining one."

That is an interpretation but there are other passages where it's specifically thought of as Lucifer being a "cast out" angel and he didn't "become" Satan until he was cast out. (Isaiah 14:12) Other relevant passages are (Isaiah 14:12, 16 and 17) (Revelation 12:7-9) (2 Corinthians 11:14) (Ezekiel 28:17)

Because I'm finding value in Eclecticism, I thought it might be interesting to reread the Bible and other texts. I don't recall these passages so it was weird to run across them.
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

Xepera maSet

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2017, 12:17:50 pm »
These chapters in Isaiah are well known outside Christianity to be about Nebuchadnezzar. Now he can certainly be seen in a Lucifer way, as Lucifer is a title after all.
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Kapalika

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2017, 12:24:21 pm »
Ya Satan wasn't evil in the OT that's just bad Christian translations of the Old Testament. Yes it was retconned in the New Testament however.

There's a reason Jews don't believe Satan is the devil or believe in Lucifer or a Devil. To them the Serpent was just a serpent. A lot of the Christian ideas of Satan was based off of Milton's Paradise Lost and other such writings. The fall and all that... was added much later after the OT was written.

Actually the things retconned by the NT was to say that the devil was called Satan and was the serpent. It never names it as Lucifer, reserving that title for Jesus in Revelation near the very end of the book and referring to Jesus as Lucifer elsewhere.

I actually got a Masonic Bible from the Order of the Eastern Star dated to the 70's or 80's meant for initiates that details in the preface this Lucifer "light bearer" and "morning star" terms as applied to Jesus and Christians (the Eastern Star is a Christian-based fraternity). So this meaning as even survived to present day.

I know years ago I wrote an essay on the etymology of Satan that touched on the Jewish views of the OT and how it changed over time but I'd have to go dig it up. Suffice to say the way it's normally interpreted isn't inline with the actual OT in Hebrew and is a lot added on to what was retconned (retro-active continuity) in the NT. A lot was just added on from essentially fanon.

There's a lot of things out there detailing this. The information is really easy to find. I know it can be hard to realize how much of it was made up after the fact, I had the similar reaction momentarily when I first learned about it before looking into it and realizing it was true (which was when I was still kind of a Christian around age 18 or so).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer#Jewish_exegesis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan#Modern_Judaism
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/who-or-what-was-lucifer

I'm lazy so I just grabbed from wikipedia and a catholic site. I know of plenty of christian links too that discuss this and prove that jesus is lucifer but I ain't got the connection atm to really go opening 10 tabs to find the ones I found in the past when I used to debate this years ago.

Also it's worth mentioning that Lucifer didn't apply to the King so much as it applied to Venus, which was being poetically compared to the King. Venus rises and falls in the morning, the legend being that it was trying to raise to become like the gods but failed. So too then did the King. The problem is most modern readers don't know of that ancient mythology so the actual contemporary meaning is lost on them, which makes great for retroactively saying it's about Satan. Lucifer is a bad translation that was made in the King James Version originally like many other inaccurate translations in it to fit what theology KING JAMES and the state-run Church wanted at the time (hence the name).

Actually that catholic link is pretty objective about it and covers all the main points. Check that one out if no others.
My Music and Blog // My Chatroom
My religion is Satanism & Trika via Vāmāchāra (LHP)
"God and the individual are one, to realize this is the essence of Shaivism.” - Lakshman Joo

Kapalika

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2017, 12:26:39 pm »
These chapters in Isaiah are well known outside Christianity to be about Nebuchadnezzar. Now he can certainly be seen in a Lucifer way, as Lucifer is a title after all.

You mean outside of Protestantism :D (see my Catholic link in the last post).

Edit: Although I've known about the catholic views on the subject for some time, that article was just particularly more thorough and objective about it than I had anticipated.
My Music and Blog // My Chatroom
My religion is Satanism & Trika via Vāmāchāra (LHP)
"God and the individual are one, to realize this is the essence of Shaivism.” - Lakshman Joo

Kapalika

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2017, 12:29:51 pm »
Crap let me correct myself. The article also points out that many reformer Protestants had the same views of Lucifer as them. So I guess it really is as modern as Paradise Lost   :o
My Music and Blog // My Chatroom
My religion is Satanism & Trika via Vāmāchāra (LHP)
"God and the individual are one, to realize this is the essence of Shaivism.” - Lakshman Joo

Deidre

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2017, 12:34:38 pm »
It is also talking about a king but not the part about casting Lucifer out of heaven. A human king wouldn't be cast out of heaven. Even if it's all 'lore, it logically reads like Lucifer was an angel that was cast out of heaven and then became Satan. My own view of Satan is pretty neutral but these passages are what they are and I just found them curious.
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

pi_ramesses

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2017, 12:39:30 pm »
@Deidre Which Bible translation are you reading from, if I may ask? I would be interested to compare the verses across different translations. I have a New American Bible (NAB), which is Catholic. It's essentially the same as the one found here: http://www.usccb.org/bible/books-of-the-bible/index.cfm
Pro omnis dominos viae sinistra, sic itur ad astra
Nylfmedli14

Kapalika

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2017, 12:43:01 pm »
It is also talking about a king but not the part about casting Lucifer out of heaven. A human king wouldn't be cast out of heaven. Even if it's all 'lore, it logically reads like Lucifer was an angel that was cast out of heaven and then became Satan. My own view of Satan is pretty neutral but these passages are what they are and I just found them curious.

Venus. Read the catholic link. It was literally talking about the "morning star" as in Venus.

It's a poetic expression. It only seems like it was talking about the devil and logical as that is what you were raised to believe by modern Protestants based on intentionally deceptive translations. I explained that all in my previous (larger) post. It's all based on lies.

I'm not meaning to be rude, it's just it feels like you glossed over all I took the time and effort to post about it.
My Music and Blog // My Chatroom
My religion is Satanism & Trika via Vāmāchāra (LHP)
"God and the individual are one, to realize this is the essence of Shaivism.” - Lakshman Joo

Deidre

Re: What are your beliefs about Satan?
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2017, 12:43:14 pm »
@Deidre Which Bible translation are you reading from, if I may ask? I would be interested to compare the verses across different translations. I have a New American Bible (NAB), which is Catholic. It's essentially the same as the one found here: http://www.usccb.org/bible/books-of-the-bible/index.cfm

English Standard Version.

"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black


xx
The True Name of the Biblical Satan

Started by Setamorphosis on General LHP Discussion

6 Replies
245 Views
Last post August 09, 2017, 09:04:35 pm
by pi_ramesses
xx
Hail Satan the Morningstar! New member here!

Started by Ave Baphomet! on Lounge

6 Replies
150 Views
Last post September 06, 2017, 09:18:23 am
by Setamontet
xx
Discussing Beliefs

Started by Xepera maSet on General LHP Discussion

6 Replies
487 Views
Last post October 23, 2017, 05:50:14 pm
by pi_ramesses
xx
feedback on me describing my beliefs?

Started by Kapalika on General LHP Discussion

10 Replies
223 Views
Last post October 30, 2017, 09:36:34 pm
by pi_ramesses