Author Topic: Worship  (Read 278 times)

Kapalika

Worship
« on: August 07, 2017, 03:54:39 am »
Often times, I have this overwhelming sense of adoration and affection and I can't contain it. I try to use music as an outlet but really I can't hold in my enthusiasm or passion for it. It's so overwhelming, a sense of love. It's not something I can rationally explain or whatever, it's compulsive, not my choice. It's just this intense wave of intense emotion and spiritual energy, ecstasy even.

This happens fairly regularly, maybe once or twice a day, sometimes every other day or so and has for I don't know how many years now with only a few breaks of it.

Anyways I've heard it said that Satanists don't worship Satan or at least they don't grovel. Or that it isn't LHP to submit to a god or worship. I'm not sure how I feel about that but at the same time, this isn't a matter of choice. I am compelled to do this yet I don't feel forced. It just is what it is and it's the most amazing thing ever.

I don't feel like I'm "submitting" to Satan though anymore than I feel like I am submitting to be overtaken by anything else breathtaking one experiences in their life. In a sense though, it does feel like "giving in" to some deep animalistic desire. Like there is this thing I've been fighting for so long that I can no longer resist now that I know how much of a part of me it is. A good comparison is "edging" durring sex, trying to not orgasm but when you finally can't control it anymore you give in and it's this most amazing thing.

It's gotten even more intense in the last year and I've not really even done any proper full rituals in that time, I've kept telling myself to set up a new altar place and use this feeling to my advantage, since it raises so much energy. I just hadn't really gotten around to it. And it's not even like the passion is being derived from the deity so much as I feel it's coming from me, or at least some cosmic force (such as Rajas) that I'm aligned with (a little hard to explain but basically imagine it being like your spirit is tied to an element say fire as an example some people might understand it, although I wouldn't personally associate the element fire with it).

I guess really what I'm asking is... what is other's perspectives on this? What would you do if you felt this way? What would you make of it?
My Music and Blog // My Chatroom
My religion is Satanism & Trika via Vāmāchāra (LHP)
"God and the individual are one, to realize this is the essence of Shaivism.” - Lakshman Joo

Xepera maSet

Re: Worship
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 08:20:01 am »
I'm interested to see replies because I have this same experience.
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Deidre

Re: Worship
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2017, 10:12:18 am »
While I'm new to exploring this, I'm reading a book that is helping me understand the LHP, and perhaps we are used to worshipping something outside of ourselves. I don't see myself exalting Satan, I see no need really to substitute a deity that I once worshipped for another one. I know you might not see Satan as such but I'm just thinking out loud as to how it would make me feel. I like the feeling of love that I'm having right now and while this is still new for me, I'm feeling it. But I'm choosing to direct it towards Self, something I haven't done enough of in my life. Maybe Self is all there ever was and ever needs to be? Just my views atm.
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

Setamontet

Re: Worship
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 11:24:54 am »
I worship Set/the Prince of Darkness, I don't grovel or submit my will to his, but it is a deep reverence and admiration I have had for him ever since the night I first became Setian.  That night many years ago when Set and I first bonded in mind and spirit.  Sometimes during the passion and intense energy of a working I will kneel before the Altar of Darkness and cry out "Hail, Set!", and I know other Setians who also do.

Don Webb, High Priest Emeritus of the Temple of Set, in a letter, told me of the night when he truly became aware of the reality of Set.  It was during a ToS conclave working when he was an Adept II*, the presence and the realization was so overwhelming he began weeping uncontrollably for almost an hour, right there before everybody in attendance.  Of course, in true Setian fashion nobody came up to him, put their arms around him saying "we know what your going through".  Nobody intruded and left him alone to experience this moment of Xeper by him Self.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 08:35:56 am by Setamontet »

"Arise in your glory, behold the genius of your creation, and be prideful of being,
for I am the same - I who am the Highest of Life." - The Word of Set

EvilMeow

Re: Worship
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2017, 02:08:40 am »
I have thought about things like that and where do common religions go wrong with it...

I view worship as a form of admiration and it does not even have to be directed towards a deity. Humans often worship other humans all the time. You might want to worship a deity of your choice for the same reason, you might want to say "thank you" to someone.

The very first problem that religions like christianity is that it says "you MUST worship".

The problem is not with the submission in any form. The problem is that someone says that everyone is supposed to do it. I believe that lhp means to say that you should have a free will and do what ever you want... any "you should do this" becomes the opposite of such idea. I view that one should pray to a deity is an example of what we are always taught we should do. Following that teaching would be a denial of free will... but following the idea "you should never do this" is effectively the same.

Just some thoughts for you to think about. You might be being effectively submissive towards lhp ideas. You might be making lhp into your doctorine. It might also be not a wrong thing to do. You might be LEARNING to cast aside what you LEARN.

Edit: interaction of needs with a free will is a separate topic to think about, separate from the topic of worship at least. I have some thoughts on it, I might share them if you are interested.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 03:09:49 am by EvilMeow »

Ningishzidda

Re: Worship
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2017, 08:09:01 am »
Now here's the kind of discussion which would just get torn to pieces at a "serious" Satanic forum. *cough* 600 Club *cough*

So it's an interesting discussion. I had a pretty intense sex dream involving some kind of Baphomet character. Really intense, like, I woke up in a sweat and I was absolutely terrified. Second best sex of my life, and it wasn't even real. So while I'm straddling this gorgeous blue goat demon guy, he's like "Tell me you belong to me and I'll let you go." Normally I wouldn't think twice to tell him to fuck off, but this was pretty amazing in that not only did I say "Yes, I belong to you" (and immediately was allowed to orgasm and wake up) I wasn't really put off by the whole dream.

Something about energy signatures, I think, made me stop and contemplate it and not really freak out about it and go try to seek help from Jesus. What I actually did was go on Occultforums.com when it was still around back then, and I went to the Satanism section, where there was a moderator named m1thr0s. I ended up later marrying him and he felt like the same entity in the dream once I met up with him irl.

And later, I found out, he had a reputation for spontaneously turning into a fabulously handsome blue demon thing and scaring the crap out of people, in and out of psychedelics work...

So yeah, go figure. I told him about this and he just chuckled about it and said "Yeah I probably summoned you."

When we worship these archetypes and beings we are really just sort of attending to our own house and our own reflections of macrocosmic consciousness within ourselves, so no harm no foul....

There is No God but Man...

The real trick is being able to let go of those archetypes when you've outgrown them, and if you manage to get one you can fight off, and it keeps coming back, well, that's a champion, you can respect that. Jesus, in general, doesn't hold up to being pushed away very well, which is why Christians are so hysterical about never denying him. If you do it once, you're going to go to Hell, right? Many sects of Christianity believe this. You can never go back, according to them. That tells us a lot about xianity in general.

Bhakti Yoga might interest you, as it ultimately resolves in Atman itself, and thus doesn't conflict with the ideas of the LHP at all. I went through this whole journey myself and have figured out that while we externalize the worship, as long as it all comes back to raising up some part of ourself, it really does no harm.

My husband would never have been able to approach things the way I did and that's fine. We all have different ways of elevating our consciousness, some of us have a very real bicameral mind effect going on, ala Westworld. As long as you know it's you, deep down, there is no real harm in worship practices. But even if you're not there yet, just be aware that it is the reality...I think every *Star* has to get to that point eventually.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 08:13:55 am by Ningishzidda »

Xepera maSet

Re: Worship
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2017, 03:06:33 pm »
[Admin bump]
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Mindmaster

Re: Worship
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2017, 08:12:54 am »
I have thought about things like that and where do common religions go wrong with it...

I view worship as a form of admiration and it does not even have to be directed towards a deity. Humans often worship other humans all the time. You might want to worship a deity of your choice for the same reason, you might want to say "thank you" to someone.

The very first problem that religions like christianity is that it says "you MUST worship".

The problem is not with the submission in any form. The problem is that someone says that everyone is supposed to do it. I believe that lhp means to say that you should have a free will and do what ever you want... any "you should do this" becomes the opposite of such idea. I view that one should pray to a deity is an example of what we are always taught we should do. Following that teaching would be a denial of free will... but following the idea "you should never do this" is effectively the same.

Just some thoughts for you to think about. You might be being effectively submissive towards lhp ideas. You might be making lhp into your doctorine. It might also be not a wrong thing to do. You might be LEARNING to cast aside what you LEARN.

Edit: interaction of needs with a free will is a separate topic to think about, separate from the topic of worship at least. I have some thoughts on it, I might share them if you are interested.

I concur with your statements here, but I find it strange to conflate worship with submission. The culture of my ancestors regularly venerated them, for example. Worship in the LHP is more of a process of celebrating a relationship, rather than master-slave relation. I simply view Satan and various "demon" energies as spiritual sages and conduits of a certain type of force. The real problem is dogma in that you MUST do things or you WILL get problems. It's shifting responsibility of your life to the divine, and thereby making your own personal actions relatively worthless, then the scale of the importance of such relationships is WAY out of whack and one-sided.

I'm theistic, but I am also personally responsible for my life. I do not expect that cosmic level beings are overly concerned with my mundane affairs, but if I seek deeper knowledge and I can work toward forging that relationship with them to gain it. In a way, I am always of the disposition a student should have with a teacher and very respectful but ultimately I have to take what I've learned and do something with it.

Liu

Re: Worship
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2017, 08:41:23 am »
Often times, I have this overwhelming sense of adoration and affection and I can't contain it. I try to use music as an outlet but really I can't hold in my enthusiasm or passion for it. It's so overwhelming, a sense of love. It's not something I can rationally explain or whatever, it's compulsive, not my choice. It's just this intense wave of intense emotion and spiritual energy, ecstasy even.

This happens fairly regularly, maybe once or twice a day, sometimes every other day or so and has for I don't know how many years now with only a few breaks of it.
To keep it short: That describes my own experiences fairly well.

Quote
I don't feel like I'm "submitting" to Satan though anymore than I feel like I am submitting to be overtaken by anything else breathtaking one experiences in their life. In a sense though, it does feel like "giving in" to some deep animalistic desire. Like there is this thing I've been fighting for so long that I can no longer resist now that I know how much of a part of me it is. A good comparison is "edging" durring sex, trying to not orgasm but when you finally can't control it anymore you give in and it's this most amazing thing.

It depends on the metaphysics, but if we believe in Satan not as some personal entity but basically as the underlying fabric of reality, or as the personification of our own will, or anything along those lines, then we can hardly not submit to it. Actively submitting to it would be only acknowledging what's already the case anyway and stopping to struggle against it. Not to invalidate its psychological effectiveness, though. Diane Vera has a short essay on her website about this which I found very inspiring and that expresses more clearly what I mean: http://theisticsatanism.com/rituals/new/init-prayer.html
And yeah, it feels awesome.

And even if we believe in Satan as a personal and external entity, I wouldn't take offense with someone wanting to submit to it out of devotion.

Kapalika

Re: Worship
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2017, 03:50:46 pm »
Hm, coming back... something I want to respond to.

The real trick is being able to let go of those archetypes when you've outgrown them, and if you manage to get one you can fight off, and it keeps coming back, well, that's a champion, you can respect that.

This isn't something I know about, but it does remind me of something, would you be willing to expand on this?

Bhakti Yoga might interest you, as it ultimately resolves in Atman itself, and thus doesn't conflict with the ideas of the LHP at all. I went through this whole journey myself and have figured out that while we externalize the worship, as long as it all comes back to raising up some part of ourself, it really does no harm.

I love this! When I made this topic, I described how I often feel/practice Bhakti, and wanted to see if anyone else had similar experiences or feelings about these types of things. I am glad someone else recognizes that, even if i didn't ever say it :p I think we see it similarly. One of the things I do, with the interplay of Satanism and Shaivism is see where one fill in "blindspots" in understanding/explanation of the other. The way you described it here, fits that perfectly.

Not to say that Shaivism is like Satanism, as a whole it's quite different, but that's why I'm LHP Trika (Kashmir Shaivism) which is like it, as opposed to say something Puranic :p Also worth noting, Bhakti itself is/can be a rather distinct thing, but it being yogic, it's influenced Tantra a lot, and the kind of Shaivism I do IS Tantric. So it's related, and all works out.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 04:00:47 pm by Kapalika »
My Music and Blog // My Chatroom
My religion is Satanism & Trika via Vāmāchāra (LHP)
"God and the individual are one, to realize this is the essence of Shaivism.” - Lakshman Joo

Hammerheart

Re: Worship
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2017, 05:08:24 pm »
I'm not particularly fond of the term "worship", even when it's being used to refer to a more mutual kind of affection. I don't think it applies in a situation like the one with most LHPrs-we tend to look unto deities as 'superior equals'. While we don't grovel like sycophants, there is a role model overtone to our forms of "worship", but it doesn't place one below any deity. Thus, "worship" doesn't seem very accurate to me.


King Mob

Re: Worship
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2017, 08:39:10 pm »
I find my views line up somewhat with @Setamontet. In my deities work as a pagan, I don't really hold submmission anymore like i used to when starting out. I just hold a deep reverence in some form or other. There's one or two I deeply aspire to become like as I view them as good examples of self-deification.

There's one or two I love working with in general as they get along SO well with my personality and are highly effective within their areas even if they can be tough. The latter is partially why they get along well with me. Some of the darker tricksters and I can have the same humor. Never got a long with lighter ones like Ganesha and Hermes though, go figure.

Or it could be their role in the order of things such as the Babalon archetype.

I think when it comes down to Demon and Deity work, you have to be able to say no if it comes to it. There's no notable difference between Faust and Job who gave up their selves to either side in my opinion. However, if you have an amiable relationship with one that is mutually beneificial, there is no harm. I view my deities I worship as friends in high places, like if someone had a friend who was a politician or in the mob depending on which deity. As long as you don't piss them off and generally get along and like them isntead of using them, no real downside for aksing for them for favors but you have to get along and respect them. It's always okay to take a break or even cut ties respectably. I think this view is highly different than most worship are you are worshiping yourself first and foremost which is the important part of the left hand path but this also allows you to worship other beings in various fashions. It's okay to want to aspire to be like something or someone as well as that's an important part of bettering yourself but "be like" does not mean "exactly the same."
"A wolf  is  a  shadow  and  should  never  be  chained.  To  me,  Vánagandr  represents the  very  essence  of  chaos.  He  is  the  antithesis  of  law  and  order.  Without  chaos in  one's  life,  you  fall  into  stagnation  with  no  room  for  growth.  That  is  what  Vánagandr  represents."


xx
Worship Of The State

Started by W_Adam_Smythe on General LHP Discussion

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Last post July 09, 2017, 09:38:47 pm
by W_Adam_Smythe