Author Topic: Why Materialistic Atheism, and Militant Atheists Fail  (Read 624 times)

Ave Lucifugus

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Why Materialistic Atheism, and Militant Atheists Fail
« on: August 06, 2017, 08:38:06 am »
Materialism

I'll first start with Materialism, because it's the easiest one to get out of the way.

The position of Materialism is a logical leap at best, utterly nonsensical at worst. Number one reason is because the material and immaterial co-exist creating an equilibrium. The material affects the immaterial, and the immaterial affects the material (for example, affirmations, calming yourself down by talking to yourself positively, causing your own health and organs to deteriorate by negative self-talk, etc). Number two, the universe isn't made out of just matter and energy (this is a huge fallacy). There's also dark energy, for instance.

To say that matter is the main substance is, as I've said, a logical leap at best. Where is the evidence to support this? In fact, the more quantum physics progresses, the more we see the foolishness of materialism.

Lastly here are some examples of non-material things that aren't mind dependent: Quantity of something, Order (such as the laws of nature, the very force that keeps everything together (INCLUDING MATTER)), and Chaos itself.

(Militant) Atheism

First off, you would have to define God. If you can't define God, you can't disbelieve in it. A more intellectually honest position here would be utter agnosticism or apatheism. If you define God as the Abrahamists do, it's sort of easy to refute it due to the contradictions of the monotheistic omnigod concept. And this is exactly what militant atheists do, they claim that the belief in a God is a delusion, because they interpret God the way Abrahamists do. What's funny is that Militant Atheists share many similarities with Abrahamists. They're dogmatic, they have the same interpretation of God, but they differ on their claims about God's existence.

Now, if you define God as the natural order, I don't think I need to tell you why disbelief in such a God is ludicrous.

If you define God as an egregore, an interactive archetype/force, then there's only thing you can do - experience it yourself.

Regardless of the definition, Atheists demand evidence constantly. You never hear the end of it. Evidence, evidence, evidence. But what kind of evidence would suffice? Empirical evidence? Well, then you would have to go with the presupposition that your senses are 100% correct 100% of the time, which has been proven time and time again to be incorrect.

Regardless of the definition, God seems to be something that cannot be directly observed in the first place. It's outside of our senses. The only thing you can do to be convinced is to experience God with your mind,** and/or experience his/her influence with your senses. Think of it this way - you cannot see consciousness itself, order itself, chaos itself, emotions and thoughts themselves, quantity itself, but you can see their influence / manifestations on that which you can observe. But these manifestations aren't emotions or order or chaos themselves, due to law of identity. They're just that - manifestations and/or products of these things.

So, all in all, Militant Atheism is an extremely flawed philosophical position. Atheism itself is a non-position, so it shouldn't be even addressed or taken seriously.

**I said here experience with your mind.  An example of this would be thinking / talking to yourself, and coming to a realization / solution to the problem. This doesn't involve the senses, but can be classified as an experience.


PS. I would just like to add that, even if a God were to be a mere idea, a concept, a symbol, an interpretation, it STILL exists. It exists as an idea, you can't say that your thoughts, or ideas don't exist. It may not exist in the physical world, but exists in your mind, the mental world. It's an idea come to life, so to speak. Usually, the snarky reddit atheist would respond with, "Well that means firefarting unicorns must exist too, as ideas." Okay, sure, but ask yourself this:

"What has more of a psychological impact on a person - the idea of a God, or the idea of a unicorn? Does the idea of a unicorn have a significant impact to begin with? Does this unicorn represent something? Does it have a deeper meaning?"

IMPORANT NOTE: One could say that I'm hypocritical for saying one would have to experience God with their mind if he/she's an egregore, but not trust their senses. Well, just because you can't perceive or experience (with the mind) something, that doesn't make it not real. To those who have experienced God, God is real. To those who haven't, he/she isn't. The reason why we can agree upon our reality for the most part is because of our anatomy. We have the same (more or less) anatomy so we get the (more or less) same picture. But, imagine a person that has no senses AT ALL. To them, the world doesn't exist. Are they delusional? Is their experience, or lack thereof less valid? Less real? Of course not. They literally cannot have the experience we do. The reality itself depends on our experience of it. If we can't experience reality, to us, reality isn't real. Reality as we experience it isn't the way it is. The objectivity that the militant atheists seem to praise really is subjective. Very few things in this world can be considered objective (e.g. gravity).

Anyway, this is my argument. Thank you for reading, and let me know what you think.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 09:00:55 am by Ave Lucifugus »

Xepera maSet

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Re: Why Materialistic Atheism, and Militant Atheists Fail
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2017, 04:05:25 pm »
Yeah, materialism is an absolute joke philosophically. There literally no possible way it can be true, and that it's so widely accepted is as baffling as the acceptance of Christianity. I would also add that you missed one of the most importantly immaterial things: mathematical ontology.

"The Dragon became as a many-headed Serpent,
It's fiery tongues bearing forth speech
Into all the kingoms of the Earth."


My book, "Behold: the Prince of Darkness!": https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1726037460/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1726037460

Ave Lucifugus

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Re: Why Materialistic Atheism, and Militant Atheists Fail
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2017, 06:04:53 pm »
Oh, right, of course. I almost forgot. Thanks for the reminder. :)

Deidre

Re: Why Materialistic Atheism, and Militant Atheists Fail
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2017, 01:34:22 pm »
Um, Idk about that. Our culture is inundated with the Abrahamic faiths, but most atheists (and I lean towards atheism now after departing from Christianity) don't believe in the idea of a deity or the need for one. Militant atheism is usually a reaction to dogmatic theism, which can be found in our culture. Most atheists are merely indifferent to the idea of a deity and/or theism. We tend to only hear the dogmatic atheists and assume many think like them, but most have a live and let live mindset.

I would never be a materialist but in my defense of them lol...ideas really only matter if they materialize. So if you have an idea to go to the grocery store, but you never go, your idea doesn't really matter at the end of the day. Likewise, atheists only have issues with people who worship their own ideas...to imagine a deity and feel we are guided by a Creator is not upsetting to an atheist, it's when those "ideas" spill into the culture in an attempt to convert others. Ideas don't hurt people but ideas that become realities can hurt people which is why atheists feel that theistic ideas are "irrational."
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 01:40:00 pm by Deidre »
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

Ningishzidda

Re: Why Materialistic Atheism, and Militant Atheists Fail
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2017, 04:02:30 pm »
I would like it if people would stop calling Christianity and Islam "Abrahamic Faiths"

Abraham was a short dark skinned Sumerian from Ur with a bitchy wife  who travelled to Egypt as a delegation from a dying people, and other than inventing monotheism, had very little to do with White and Arab nationalism/population mind control. (Xianity and Islam) or, the grotesque shibboleth that Judaism has become.

Until the time of that jerk who conveniently "found" Deuteronomy in some closet in the temple, Israelites were largely pagan weirdos who worshipped a night-borne desert god of fire and assassins that craved animal flesh - not so unlike Hermes, as a matter of fact.

Don't give them Abraham and don't give them monotheism. If you let them have that, we've already lost, because it is an interesting idea and possibly the only thing we need from these assholes to figure out *us*

There is No God but Man...

Deidre

Re: Why Materialistic Atheism, and Militant Atheists Fail
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2017, 04:07:36 pm »
Why must there be any gods at all? IMO, why do we diminish humanity by claiming to be divine? I'm happy to be human. It's not a competition in my mind.
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

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Re: Why Materialistic Atheism, and Militant Atheists Fail
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2017, 01:35:34 am »
I don't think it's about "there must be gods" or that it diminishes what humans are, I believe in gods because to me that just seems to be how things are. It is our connection to certain gods that make humans so separate from the world we live in.

"The Dragon became as a many-headed Serpent,
It's fiery tongues bearing forth speech
Into all the kingoms of the Earth."


My book, "Behold: the Prince of Darkness!": https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1726037460/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1726037460

pi_rameses

Re: Why Materialistic Atheism, and Militant Atheists Fail
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2017, 12:50:37 pm »
It seems to permeate most cultures that great men were considered to be gods or sons of gods. So it is with Pharaohs. Christianity would refer to them as saints. We could simply call them that which we can all agree. Great humans, supermen if you will. Any other term, if suitably defined should do. For whatever reason, the term still current has divine implications. In the past, devas was used too.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 12:56:54 pm by Nylfmedli14 »
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