Author Topic: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?  (Read 416 times)

Xepera maSet

Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« on: August 04, 2017, 12:38:08 am »
One very interesting aspect of LaVeyan Satanism, which most seem to overlook, is that Satan is seen as an aspect of nature, in this case one intiminately related to hedonism. The problem with this is that LaVeyan Satanism is essentially about not fighting our nature, giving into it and submitting certain aspects of the universe. This is, so far as I can tell, the exact opposite of what the WLHP seeks to accomplish, which is a mastery of ones nature, a separation from the greater Nature as a whole. Submission to "forces of nature" is essentially the defining trait of the WRHP.

We also have the issue of Peter Gilmore, a man so dogmatic he believes all who disagree with him are on some level insane, and holds "nothing but contempt for them." It doesn't take a lot of explaining to show why this may contradict the ideology of the WLHP. Further, the Church of Satan as a whole tens to hold the claim that it is the only valid form of satanism, despite objective and even academic fact disagreeing with this. It may be more an unwritten rule, but when I think WLHP I don't think about denying objective facts just to claim ones sect is the only valid version.
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Sutekh

Re: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 02:28:08 pm »
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The problem with this is that LaVeyan Satanism is essentially about not fighting our nature, giving into it and submitting certain aspects of the universe.


It would be hard for me to agree with this in general. I have a different perspective concerning nature, my satanic concept is embracing nature by celebrating it  and admiring the beauty of nature. Iv'e never really felt the need to fight nature necessarily, but if you mean nature in a different sense such as fighting the natural order as part of nature than I would more or less agree with you. As far as "submitting certain aspects of the universe," I do not recall believing in that when I was a beginning Satanist on the LaVeyan Path.
"Our collective ambition is that the membership of the Order of the Serpent also serves as guardians of the Black Flame and collaborates with the Prince of Darkness in the Infernal Mandate of re-creating the Cosmos in the eternal glory of the Setian Will!"-Setamontet

Sutekh

Re: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2017, 02:30:46 pm »
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Submission to "forces of nature" is essentially the defining trait of the WRHP.

I used to regard Satan as a force in nature, a force that drives man to survive. However I never believed in submitting to that force within nature.
"Our collective ambition is that the membership of the Order of the Serpent also serves as guardians of the Black Flame and collaborates with the Prince of Darkness in the Infernal Mandate of re-creating the Cosmos in the eternal glory of the Setian Will!"-Setamontet

Sutekh

Re: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 02:33:50 pm »
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a separation from the greater Nature as a whole.


If I am correct, are you implying the Objective Universe?  I embrace the concept on separating oneself from the Objective Universe, in which I can understand of what you may mean when you imply "Greater Nature" as a metaphor.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 03:00:06 pm by Sutekh »
"Our collective ambition is that the membership of the Order of the Serpent also serves as guardians of the Black Flame and collaborates with the Prince of Darkness in the Infernal Mandate of re-creating the Cosmos in the eternal glory of the Setian Will!"-Setamontet

Deidre

Re: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 02:59:30 pm »
When I see different names attached to the LHP, it reminds me of Christianity and how Luther split from the Roman Catholic Church to brand his version of Christianity. I hesitate to "follow" anyone again because it will feel like someone else's dogma, which seems like the opposite of why people come to follow the LHP in the first place. What I find enchanting about this path is that I can own my beliefs instead of just merely obeying someone's version of it or their dogma. Everyone has to find their own way but just seems like shades of Lutheranism, when I see LaVey's name attached to this.
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

Sutekh

Re: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2017, 03:06:50 pm »
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Everyone has to find their own way but just seems like shades of Lutheranism, when I see LaVey's name attached to this.


A lot of people get the wrong impression that I am a follower following LaVey and Aquino's writings fully. I used to be hardcore when I adhered to LaVey. I was more or less a follower at that time, but I am not that much of a dogmatic follower anymore. Today I find both Setian thought and Satanic thought to be both practical.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 03:10:53 pm by Sutekh »
"Our collective ambition is that the membership of the Order of the Serpent also serves as guardians of the Black Flame and collaborates with the Prince of Darkness in the Infernal Mandate of re-creating the Cosmos in the eternal glory of the Setian Will!"-Setamontet

Deidre

Re: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2017, 06:26:24 pm »
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Everyone has to find their own way but just seems like shades of Lutheranism, when I see LaVey's name attached to this.


A lot of people get the wrong impression that I am a follower following LaVey and Aquino's writings fully. I used to be hardcore when I adhered to LaVey. I was more or less a follower at that time, but I am not that much of a dogmatic follower anymore. Today I find both Setian thought and Satanic thought to be both practical.

From what I've read about LaVey, it sounds like he centered his beliefs around atheism, and didn't like a theistic approach to the LHP? Is that right? He seemed to not believe that Satan is a literal being. Nothing wrong with his brand of belief, because I actually lean towards the atheist side of LHP, but I just don't like his name being attached to it as if he invented that way of thinking. lol And then that is where dogma comes in, and most likely why the 600 club is so angry, because they have convinced themselves that LaVey's dogma is the only way to view Satanism, etc.

It shouldn't amaze me that there's people even in the LHP who try to hijack it for their own agenda, and personal ''fame.''  :rolleyes:
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

Sutekh

Re: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2017, 11:16:06 pm »
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From what I've read about LaVey, it sounds like he centered his beliefs around atheism, and didn't like a theistic approach to the LHP? Is that right? He seemed to not believe that Satan is a literal being.


It is quite complicated, their have been many different perspectives upon his Church and his own beliefs.  Some people believe  he did have a theistic approach within his regards to the Prince of Darkness, while others may not agree. His old Church as a matter of fact was not entirely an atheistic organization unlike the modern Church of Satan ran by Gilmore. His Church attracted those who had a heavy interest within the occult and esotericism, it attracted some who were spiritually inclined such as Michael A. Aquino.  Over time the Church under went through many changes where it became more of a business than a focus point on the spiritual aspects of the Occult.  The Church changed even before Gilmore managed to take it over.  This is my own understanding behind the History of the COS through the decades.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 11:18:32 pm by Sutekh »
"Our collective ambition is that the membership of the Order of the Serpent also serves as guardians of the Black Flame and collaborates with the Prince of Darkness in the Infernal Mandate of re-creating the Cosmos in the eternal glory of the Setian Will!"-Setamontet

Sutekh

Re: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2017, 11:25:35 pm »
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Nothing wrong with his brand of belief, because I actually lean towards the atheist side of LHP, but I just don't like his name being attached to it as if he invented that way of thinking.


Whether we like it or not, to me he was the godfather who created Western thought to the Rebel.  He is an individual of who'm I hold in respect even though others may call him a Charlatan or disagree with him at best.  My views may had changed on him over time, but I still regard him as an influence within the Western Left Hand Path. In which his influence evolved over time creating The Temple of Set and also by having his influence evolve with other individuals such as myself.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 11:27:09 pm by Sutekh »
"Our collective ambition is that the membership of the Order of the Serpent also serves as guardians of the Black Flame and collaborates with the Prince of Darkness in the Infernal Mandate of re-creating the Cosmos in the eternal glory of the Setian Will!"-Setamontet

Setamorphosis

Re: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 11:42:12 am »
No, LaVeyan Satanism is Right Hand Path by proxy. One of the primary reasons is because they view Satan and themselves as a part of the natural order, and are bound to it. They also advocate embracing your nature. They're, by definition, Right Hand Path...just painted black.

By the way, about dogmatism, I used to think that it's just reddit people being reddit people (which is why I never post on /r/satanism). But, no, actually, on other (LaVeyan) Satanist forums, there's also that elitism (which is empty, dare I say delusional too, bravado), and dogmatism. I've also noticed that they tend to be very hypocritical (for example, they advocate individualism, yet they're dogmatic. they're pro-free speech, yet they encourage censorship (downvote system to hide and prevent someone with low karma from posting again)).

Just look at how they treated  OP here :(   https://www.reddit.com/r/satanism/comments/6s0e50/is_laveyan_satanism_part_of_the_western_left_hand/

If there are any LaVeyans on this forums, and you don't identify with the stereotype I just described, I salute you. And you deserve a cookie. c:
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 11:43:47 am by Ave Lucifugus »
a.k.a. Ave Lucifugus

Deidre

Re: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 09:07:53 pm »
Quote
Nothing wrong with his brand of belief, because I actually lean towards the atheist side of LHP, but I just don't like his name being attached to it as if he invented that way of thinking.


Whether we like it or not, to me he was the godfather who created Western thought to the Rebel.  He is an individual of who'm I hold in respect even though others may call him a Charlatan or disagree with him at best.  My views may had changed on him over time, but I still regard him as an influence within the Western Left Hand Path. In which his influence evolved over time creating The Temple of Set and also by having his influence evolve with other individuals such as myself.
I can respect someone who creates a path for others to follow,  so long as that someone doesn't expect people to follow him/her, and the actual path gets forgotten.  I think (?) that defeats the whole purpose of Satanism, which is deep self-actualization and elevating one's self to a Higher Self. There's a difference to me in someone who teaches what a faith or belief system is about, and maybe even serves as a mentor...and one that gives you a sense that if you don't follow the way they believe, then you're wrong.
"Don't look for riches, look for rich experiences." - Lucian Black

Sutekh

Re: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2017, 12:33:49 pm »
Quote
No, LaVeyan Satanism is Right Hand Path by proxy. One of the primary reasons is because they view Satan and themselves as a part of the natural order, and are bound to it. They also advocate embracing your nature. They're, by definition, Right Hand Path...just painted black.

Your mileage may vary, When I was new to the path beginning this type of Satanism in which many of us call "LaVeyan." I never really gave into nature as a whole, I believe in separating oneself from the natural order in which I held that point of view when I was originally LaVeyan. On the subject of embracing ones nature, personally I never really had any disagreements or issues with that, as a matter of fact I find it practical in getting out of ones conventional comfort zone to that extent. I wouldn't personally view LaVey's brand of Satanism as  "Right Hand Path," by definition. It has some characteristics in my opinion which fits the category of the Left Hand Path, an example is "non conformity" being that aspect of it.

You may of course not agree within my own words, coming from your own point of view on the subject. In my opinion we shouldn't necessarily jump into conclusions in which some of these concepts within a Religion may seem out of bound, even if you may regard that form of Satanism to be strictly "Right Hand Path," this form has played a major role in evolving the Path within the West and to others as well.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 12:57:12 pm by Sutekh »
"Our collective ambition is that the membership of the Order of the Serpent also serves as guardians of the Black Flame and collaborates with the Prince of Darkness in the Infernal Mandate of re-creating the Cosmos in the eternal glory of the Setian Will!"-Setamontet

Sutekh

Re: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2017, 12:45:13 pm »
Quote
If there are any LaVeyans on this forums, and you don't identify with the stereotype I just described, I salute you. And you deserve a cookie. c:


 Yes, I used to be quite dogmatic within adhering to that system by having that elitist point of view.  I understand that LaVey wasn't really the only person who created Satanism, as their were some Predecessors before him and his Organization.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 12:47:15 pm by Sutekh »
"Our collective ambition is that the membership of the Order of the Serpent also serves as guardians of the Black Flame and collaborates with the Prince of Darkness in the Infernal Mandate of re-creating the Cosmos in the eternal glory of the Setian Will!"-Setamontet

Sutekh

Re: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2017, 12:51:20 pm »
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One of the primary reasons is because they view Satan and themselves as a part of the natural order, and are bound to it.

I wouldn't really view Satan as being part of the Universe and Order as a whole. Yes I think that Satan does watch over us within the Universe, but he lives separately from the Universe and the Natural Order in general. On the Subject of Intervention, we can say that the Prince of Darkness may intervene within our Personal Selves, but his way of intervening may differ from the Christian Perspective.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 12:53:20 pm by Sutekh »
"Our collective ambition is that the membership of the Order of the Serpent also serves as guardians of the Black Flame and collaborates with the Prince of Darkness in the Infernal Mandate of re-creating the Cosmos in the eternal glory of the Setian Will!"-Setamontet

Xepera maSet

Re: Is LaVeyan Satanism part of the WLHP?
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2017, 01:28:42 pm »
Quote
One of the primary reasons is because they view Satan and themselves as a part of the natural order, and are bound to it.

I wouldn't really view Satan as being part of the Universe and Order as a whole. Yes I think that Satan does watch over us within the Universe, but he lives separately from the Universe and the Natural Order in general. On the Subject of Intervention, we can say that the Prince of Darkness may intervene within our Personal Selves, but his way of intervening may differ from the Christian Perspective.

But LaVey even says in TSB that Satan is a part of nature. You may disagree and therefore are not LaVeyan, but this is precisely what those satanists believe.
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."


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