Author Topic: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist  (Read 1270 times)

Sutekh

Re: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist
« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2020, 03:57:06 pm »
@Liu I will get back to your responses, I actually have had to catch up on some of the talking's you and @Etu Malku had on the forum. Iv'e been extremely busy as of late.

But going to @Etu Malku Response
Quote
The phrase 'more than human' isn't that difficult to understand. One becomes More Than Human when the human aspect of our existence is transcended. In other words, as we become more like our Greater Self, we become less like our mundane self, thus more than human.

He's hit it on the head, this is something that him and I can personally agree with. Even though @Etu Malku and I have entirely different beliefs on our views of the LHP, we both strive to achieve that Greater Self, Higher Self, Ubermensch whatever you choose to call it. This is as previously stated is the concept of the Western Left Hand Path. Unfortunatley as Etu Malku previously stated I believe, not a lot of people who are on the Western Left Hand Path achieve this stage of that Greater Self. When you first Journey on the Western Left Hand Path your ultimate goal is rebelling against what is Conventional, the Second stage is then working on erasing that "Lesser Self," the third stage is achieving that godhood. For me personally, I view myself on both on that second and third stage.

Some people are often trapped with Satanism in which they are stuck on stage 1, and remain their without any evolutionary progress.

But @Liu The best way to kindv'e point you what Etu and I mean, is watching a few educational videos from Mr. LeRoy. Not trying to give you the wrong perception of how both of us may seem so dogmatic, but of how both of us perceive nearly these same approaches. (Its been a while watching some of these videos, but hopefully you will find some of this useful.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffp0HwHHAvE&ab_channel=ThomasLeRoy




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbs6ANh8QlM&ab_channel=ThomasLeRoy
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 03:59:37 pm by Sutekh »
"To achieve Xem, the Setian must perceive what he can of Xem, and must Become that
perception. He must incorporate the knowledge, understanding, and lessons of that perception
into the Setian's being. Remanifesting that ennobled state, the Setian will perceive more of
Xem, and will be able to Xeper further towards Xem. It is only through pursuit of this
repeating cycle of perceive / achieve that the initiate will eventually near and reach Xem"- Ruby Tablet of Set

Etu Malku

Re: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist
« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2020, 04:17:39 pm »
@Liu I will get back to your responses, I actually have had to catch up on some of the talking's you and @Etu Malku had on the forum. Iv'e been extremely busy as of late.

But going to @Etu Malku Response
Quote
The phrase 'more than human' isn't that difficult to understand. One becomes More Than Human when the human aspect of our existence is transcended. In other words, as we become more like our Greater Self, we become less like our mundane self, thus more than human.

He's hit it on the head, this is something that him and I can personally agree with. Even though @Etu Malku and I have entirely different beliefs on our views of the LHP, we both strive to achieve that Greater Self, Higher Self, Ubermensch whatever you choose to call it. This is as previously stated is the concept of the Western Left Hand Path. Unfortunatley as Etu Malku previously stated I believe, not a lot of people who are on the Western Left Hand Path achieve this stage of that Greater Self. When you first Journey on the Western Left Hand Path your ultimate goal is rebelling against what is Conventional, the Second stage is then working on erasing that "Lesser Self," the third stage is achieving that godhood. For me personally, I view myself on both on that second and third stage.

Some people are often trapped with Satanism in which they are stuck on stage 1, and remain their without any evolutionary progress.

But @Liu The best way to kindv'e point you what Etu and I mean, is watching a few educational videos from Mr. LeRoy. Not trying to give you the wrong perception of how both of us may seem so dogmatic, but of how both of us perceive nearly these same approaches. (Its been a while watching some of these videos, but hopefully you will find some of this useful.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffp0HwHHAvE&ab_channel=ThomasLeRoyYa got me there ;)




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbs6ANh8QlM&ab_channel=ThomasLeRoy

Sutekh

Re: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2020, 04:30:44 pm »
Quote
Huh, why? Do you think I reacted to Etu's 2nd to last comment as I did if I were that much of an adherent of idealism?

Not really, but as rigid as this might sound. Going back to my previous commentary on exchanges of my mention of "how everyone's different," or that some people may find "collectivism/egalitarianism" beneficial. I myself tend to find Socialism, TST, whatever you wish to call it to be a contradiction in the Western Left Hand Path. I have no intention for someone to coddle me with their arms saying "we accept you," my own concept is being an independent being or higher being who is free from the constrains of others. Who basically soars in the air like Zarathustra to put it in words. Of course you can say as before, that others may find "Socialism, equality, beneficial to their antinomian approach," the way I view it, is yes some people may accomplish it, but at the same time they are the masses achieving this exact approach in which it splits them from the LHP. If you look at National Socialism, the Nazi's regarded the Aryan as the Superman, if you look at the population who were the collective within National Socialism, they were all regarded as the Aryan Superman both trying to achieve that goal.

I guess where I am trying to get at, is if you have the masses that are in the same Satanic Boat mixed with a bit of Socialism or whatever you wish to call it. They won't achieve or transcend fully, yes you can argue that it could still be transcendence, but they will only transcend as the Collective not to that concept of how Etu and I strive at.

Sorry if I went a bit off subject, I guess what I am trying to say on my word "idealism." You fall more in line with TST's approach of things, from reading some of your comments. I do apologize if my response might be filled with assumptions, I am the kind of guy you might say that chooses to boldly speak with honesty, instead of sugar coating things.
"To achieve Xem, the Setian must perceive what he can of Xem, and must Become that
perception. He must incorporate the knowledge, understanding, and lessons of that perception
into the Setian's being. Remanifesting that ennobled state, the Setian will perceive more of
Xem, and will be able to Xeper further towards Xem. It is only through pursuit of this
repeating cycle of perceive / achieve that the initiate will eventually near and reach Xem"- Ruby Tablet of Set

Liu

Re: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2020, 07:10:26 pm »
I have watched many of Thomas LeRoy's videos, but I don't often do so now because he often repeats himself and talks about stuff I already know (and because I don't find his reconstruction of Indo-European mythology completely convincing). But well, gonna give those 2 a listen and then get back to you.

Regarding idealism, guess we might simply mean different things. Etu had just been talking about platonic ideas, which relates to the meaning of idealism that I'm associating the most with that term. But I guess you meant one of the more colloquial meanings, e.g. striving towards an ideal independent of whether it can be reached or not.

I do tend to find TST's approach fairly agreeable. Not intending to join that organization, I'm not much of an activist or very social. But I see that their approach seems to be helping a lot of people with utilizing a Satan-based spirituality for working towards their goals, and even if it might be unlikely that they'd reach that third stage, it'll at least get them closer than they might get otherwise. I don't have a clue whether I can reach it or whether it's even reachable, yet progress is progress.

crossfire

Re: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist
« Reply #49 on: September 11, 2020, 01:26:10 am »

Not really, but as rigid as this might sound. Going back to my previous commentary on exchanges of my mention of "how everyone's different," or that some people may find "collectivism/egalitarianism" beneficial.
I wouldn't brush egalitarianism in with collectivism.  Collectivism does not honor the individual and is framed around the collective.  It seeks to regulate/hold individuals in check in order to further the collective.  Egalitarianism is framed around the individual and honors the individual.  It protects the individual from collateral damage from a rampaging collective by regulating the collective so it doesn't harm individuals.
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

crossfire

"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

Liu

Re: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2020, 08:20:52 am »
But @Liu The best way to kindv'e point you what Etu and I mean, is watching a few educational videos from Mr. LeRoy. Not trying to give you the wrong perception of how both of us may seem so dogmatic, but of how both of us perceive nearly these same approaches. (Its been a while watching some of these videos, but hopefully you will find some of this useful.)

Hm, I watched the 2 vids, and I don't really get how that relates to your approaches to the LHP. His conclusion is that self-deification means acceptance of the whole of existence (and the whole of oneself) as good. He doesn't distinguish between higher or lesser self or whatever, the only particular part of the self he brings up is the shadow, which, while it might have some parallels is a very different notion from the greater self.

As most of the first vid is on Hinduism, some notes on that as well to clarify what I was referring to in my previous comment. Now I really need to read up again on Hinduism, but based from what I remember:
Shiva is a latecomer to the pantheon, probably based on some deity from the indigenous population of the Indic subcontinent. And that trinity of Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva is even later but doesn't play much of a role in Hinduist practice as pretty much every town has a different deity that they worship - they might equate it with Vishnu or Shiva or Shakti (basically never with Brahman), but even then they only equate it with one and completely disregard the others. In other videos, LeRoy also brings up the comparison between Cernunnos and that famous relief from the Indus Valley culture - but Indus Valley culture broke down a couple hundred years before the first speakers of Indic languages moved into the Indic subcontinent, so even if Shiva goes back to that same entity that is depicted there, that would just mean that he has no relation whatsoever to Cernunnos. And as someone pointed out in the Q&A, what he's talking about is LHP Hinduism (which developed about 1200 to 1500 years ago I think), which is different from "5000 years of unbroken tradition".


Quote
@Liu I will get back to your responses, I actually have had to catch up on some of the talking's you and @Etu Malku had on the forum. Iv'e been extremely busy as of late.

But going to @Etu Malku Response
Quote
The phrase 'more than human' isn't that difficult to understand. One becomes More Than Human when the human aspect of our existence is transcended. In other words, as we become more like our Greater Self, we become less like our mundane self, thus more than human.

He's hit it on the head, this is something that him and I can personally agree with. Even though @Etu Malku and I have entirely different beliefs on our views of the LHP, we both strive to achieve that Greater Self, Higher Self, Ubermensch whatever you choose to call it. This is as previously stated is the concept of the Western Left Hand Path. Unfortunatley as Etu Malku previously stated I believe, not a lot of people who are on the Western Left Hand Path achieve this stage of that Greater Self. When you first Journey on the Western Left Hand Path your ultimate goal is rebelling against what is Conventional, the Second stage is then working on erasing that "Lesser Self," the third stage is achieving that godhood. For me personally, I view myself on both on that second and third stage.

Some people are often trapped with Satanism in which they are stuck on stage 1, and remain their without any evolutionary progress.
For me, that first stage was me having a certain despise of popular culture.
That didn't relate to my spirituality whatsoever, though, except that listening to metal was what got me to read lyrics related to various forms of the LHP and thereby looking into that further.
So I'm not sure whether I ever was on that first stage, because to me, my spirituality has nothing to do with rebelling against conventions - on the contrary, I'm happy when I find conventional things that fit into it.
What exactly do you mean by the lesser self? Those parts of oneself that get into the way of your goals? If so, then I would rather consider it LHP to work on integrating these parts instead of trying to erase them (which would be in line with what LeRoy seems to be talking about concerning the shadow).


Not really, but as rigid as this might sound. Going back to my previous commentary on exchanges of my mention of "how everyone's different," or that some people may find "collectivism/egalitarianism" beneficial.
I wouldn't brush egalitarianism in with collectivism.  Collectivism does not honor the individual and is framed around the collective.  It seeks to regulate/hold individuals in check in order to further the collective.  Egalitarianism is framed around the individual and honors the individual.  It protects the individual from collateral damage from a rampaging collective by regulating the collective so it doesn't harm individuals.
That sounds about right - TST would thereby be egalitarian and not collectivist.

Etu Malku

Re: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2020, 01:05:25 pm »
What exactly do you mean by the lesser self? Those parts of oneself that get into the way of your goals? If so, then I would rather consider it LHP to work on integrating these parts instead of trying to erase them (which would be in line with what LeRoy seems to be talking about concerning the shadow).
I think you're asking me this, yes? What I am referring to with the words Lesser Self is the human/primate psyche, full of habits, indoctrination, misinformation, non-thinking, and multiple shadows which when fully on the western left hand path need to be rectified and in the case of the multiple shadow aspects these need to be confronted and conquered in order to evolve spiritually. The various schools and techniques of the occult throughout history contain many approaches to doing just that which is why it can be beneficial to study them and for some to join a community of like-minded adherents.

I have butted heads with Thomas many times in regards to my position that eastern left hand path practices are basically right hand path goals approached from heterodoxy and that western left hand path practice is approached from antinomianism where the god being sought is one's Greater Self and not an external, separate god/ideal.

Just a FYI,  the incidental music behind Mr. LeRoy's videos are from my recordings/compositions, if anyone is interested in hearing more of my musical work feel free to hit the links below.

https://tarkhem.bandcamp.com/
https://diabolusenmusiqa.com/

Liu

Re: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2020, 05:53:33 pm »
What exactly do you mean by the lesser self? Those parts of oneself that get into the way of your goals? If so, then I would rather consider it LHP to work on integrating these parts instead of trying to erase them (which would be in line with what LeRoy seems to be talking about concerning the shadow).
I think you're asking me this, yes?

I had been asking Sutekh because it was his claim that the videos by Thomas LeRoy would relate to what you two had just written, but you brought the term lesser self into this thread and I'm also interested in your reply of course.

Quote
What I am referring to with the words Lesser Self is the human/primate psyche, full of habits, indoctrination, misinformation, non-thinking, and multiple shadows which when fully on the western left hand path need to be rectified and in the case of the multiple shadow aspects these need to be confronted and conquered in order to evolve spiritually. The various schools and techniques of the occult throughout history contain many approaches to doing just that which is why it can be beneficial to study them and for some to join a community of like-minded adherents.
For some of those ends, I would rather recommend self-help books like "Tiny Habits" and "The Power of When". Those I found quite helpful recently for figuring out (parts of) what's stopping me from overcoming certain habits and what new ones to establish that are more beneficial to my goals.

I don't think I've ever found a specifically LHP technique to help me with those kinda things, though. Some did deal with getting rid of some forms of indoctrination, but not with one that I'd be aware of having (well if one's aware of it it's not really indoctrination, though). And for mis-information you can't do much anyway but continue learning and questioning. Nor do I think did I find much in spiritual writings that would relate to shadows of mine. Things that cause me to face my shadows are rather situations of daily life or work.
Most occult "workbooks" or collections of techniques I'm familiar with focus on mindfulness, meditation, visualization, spellcasting, spirit communication, perceiving synchronicities, dream journaling, correspondence sets... Some of these things can contribute to solving the issues you listed, yet it seems far from the focus of occultism by my impression. Or perhaps I just don't see what the techniques are supposed to do. So could you give me one example of what you had in mind so I know what to look for?
I know there are some techniques specifically on shadow work but they are usually separate and not a central part of a standard curriculum I think.

Quote
I have butted heads with Thomas many times in regards to my position that eastern left hand path practices are basically right hand path goals approached from heterodoxy and that western left hand path practice is approached from antinomianism where the god being sought is one's Greater Self and not an external, separate god/ideal.
Even in RHP hinduism, god is not an external, separate god/ideal, though, based on my vague knowledge of that religion. But we'd have to ask some Hindus I guess.

Quote
Just a FYI,  the incidental music behind Mr. LeRoy's videos are from my recordings/compositions, if anyone is interested in hearing more of my musical work feel free to hit the links below.

https://tarkhem.bandcamp.com/
https://diabolusenmusiqa.com/
I'll give it a listen, thanks for the info!

Etu Malku

Re: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2020, 11:26:35 pm »
Pathworking the Tree of Daath (Qliphoth) is but one WLHP practice that confronts the Shadow Self and aims to conquer it, another is working with the Goetia or Solomonic Magick. There are many others, and certain organizations such as mine have developed personal work that will accomplish this.

Liu

Re: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist
« Reply #55 on: September 12, 2020, 04:14:50 am »
Ah yes, pathworking does. Or aims to at least - haven't done much because I always get hung up on either too complex preparations that make no sense to me or on instructions being too simple ("say these couple words and you're done") so that I can't see the benefit either.

It's usually based on the assumption that one is experienced/skilled in communicating with spirits (which I'm not).

Last pathworking I tried (in relation to an event by The Temple of the Ascending Flame earlier this year), I got horrible backpain the first night and had to skip the remainder of the working (tried but I couldn't focus). Well I did get the insight that I should really exercise more (which I was aware of, just didn't know what or when, which I've kinda figured out by now) - not sure whether that counts as a pathworking result, though.

And that was again one of those that call for lots of ingredients that seemed much too complex to me, broke it down to stuff I actually had available and felt comfortable using. (Not gonna learn how to use incense, draw blood safely and handle an alcohol-based open fire indoors simultaneously). I can kinda see the point in the things called for,  but instead of making me feel committed to the rite, putting that effort into it would make me feel pissed off, instead of getting me into a trance, the incense would just get me anxious,  and so on.

I don't think pathworkings are that often included in the "workbooks", though.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 09:44:37 am by Liu »

Liu

Re: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist
« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2020, 09:38:31 am »
Does the 9-nights long initiation rite in Kelly's Aegishjalmur also count as pathworking? I see some parallels. If so, then that's one pathworking I completed. Didn't really notice any effect of it on my psyche, though.

Etu Malku

Re: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist
« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2020, 10:35:51 pm »
Ah yes, pathworking does. Or aims to at least - haven't done much because I always get hung up on either too complex preparations that make no sense to me or on instructions being too simple ("say these couple words and you're done") so that I can't see the benefit either.

It's usually based on the assumption that one is experienced/skilled in communicating with spirits (which I'm not).

Last pathworking I tried (in relation to an event by The Temple of the Ascending Flame earlier this year), I got horrible backpain the first night and had to skip the remainder of the working (tried but I couldn't focus). Well I did get the insight that I should really exercise more (which I was aware of, just didn't know what or when, which I've kinda figured out by now) - not sure whether that counts as a pathworking result, though.

And that was again one of those that call for lots of ingredients that seemed much too complex to me, broke it down to stuff I actually had available and felt comfortable using. (Not gonna learn how to use incense, draw blood safely and handle an alcohol-based open fire indoors simultaneously). I can kinda see the point in the things called for,  but instead of making me feel committed to the rite, putting that effort into it would make me feel pissed off, instead of getting me into a trance, the incense would just get me anxious,  and so on.

I don't think pathworkings are that often included in the "workbooks", though.
Pathworking, like ritual, doesn't happen in one sitting, it's a long process. When we pathwork the Qliphoth it takes practically the year.

Liu

Re: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist
« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2020, 12:27:20 am »
That makes sense, I just don't recall having seen any pathworking instructions that were set out for that kinda time frame, at least not any with a particularly LHP bent.

Sutekh

Re: 2 Hour interview with a well known public Satanist
« Reply #59 on: September 15, 2020, 12:50:24 am »
@Liu I will get back to you as soon as I can. (Like I said, lately Iv'e been very busy.)
"To achieve Xem, the Setian must perceive what he can of Xem, and must Become that
perception. He must incorporate the knowledge, understanding, and lessons of that perception
into the Setian's being. Remanifesting that ennobled state, the Setian will perceive more of
Xem, and will be able to Xeper further towards Xem. It is only through pursuit of this
repeating cycle of perceive / achieve that the initiate will eventually near and reach Xem"- Ruby Tablet of Set