Author Topic: anarcho satanism  (Read 1052 times)

Kapalika

Re: anarcho satanism
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2020, 05:43:05 am »
That was the old west and people gave that up because it was a pain in the ass.


Funny enough that is a myth about the wild west with a few incidents blown up, and gun control was in full force back then there. Actually, the coal wars back east was a lot more violent than the wild west ever was.

So, basically governments are a product of wealth (and actually necessary to have it to some extent) and taxes are just a fee we pay for the convenience of not having to take care of all of the bullshit we aren't really interested in doing. You're going to gain this benefit even as a Satanist so I'm not sure where the argument lies.


There could be some kind of public infrastructure maintaining apparatus without a state, I believe. People could even make a job out of it. Of course, I am thinking in terms of local communities where there is probably some standard within that occupation. I'm not sure how much a small region is considered a "state", say if things were broken down to county levels essentially.

I'll have to think on the rest.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 05:44:38 am by Kapalika »
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Km Anu

Re: anarcho satanism
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2020, 09:53:37 am »
How would you prevent violent crime or justify cultural and economic progression without a Leviathan? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_(Hobbes_book) The concept of society as given in your previous post implies that Anarchy only benefits those living "beneath society," But it can be argued that without society we'd all just be living under each other with no reasonable authority to regulate crime and commerce.

In fact if you buy into the idea that reduction in violence directly correlates to developmental potential in a state, there is historical evidence that demonstrates a decline in commerce would follow a state collapse, which one could reasonably assume would lead to the end of technological progression and a focus shift towards maintaining individual basic needs, even on a community level. I don't see how anyone's religious development would benefit from that.

Quote
Funny enough that is a myth about the wild west with a few incidents blown up, and gun control was in full force back then there. Actually, the coal wars back east was a lot more violent than the wild west ever was.

I'd contest this fact on the grounds that it contradicts government sourced crime data. In 1860-1865 there are some figures that show 8x more violence in the American Frontier compared to New England and Europe (https://cjrc.osu.edu/research/interdisciplinary/hvd/homicide-rates-american-west) and those elevated homicide rates are still reflected in today's crime statistics with most southern/western states boasting >4 per 100,000 compared to <2 per 100,000 on the east coast (Excluding NY at 2.9). Angels of our better nature: Why violence has declined by Steven Pinker is a good read if you find these statistics interesting/informative, Although I didn't use the book to source this post.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 10:08:45 am by Km Anu »

Kapalika

Re: anarcho satanism
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2020, 08:08:54 am »
It's still a myth, in terms of actual violent crime. That time you mentioned was during the civil war, not the classic "wild west" time period. I imagined a shit ton of crime was happening then given the war and all.


Also last I checked government doesn't have much to do with culture and "economic progress" is usually an apparatus that controls the state not the other way around.


Violence is stopped by being armed?  I mean, there have been places and times (even entire societies) without anyone with a monopoly on violence and things were alright. Really the only difference between a government and a bunch of dudes with guns enforcing arbitrary rules is how much people agree on them being "legitimate".
« Last Edit: June 21, 2020, 08:14:39 am by Kapalika »
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Liu

Re: anarcho satanism
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2020, 07:09:05 am »
Based on what I learned about current hunter-gatherer societies, those seem to be as egalitarian as you can get among humans. Their ethics are usually based on, do what you want unless you interfere with what someone else wants to do, and never order someone to do something, not even your own children.
If you compare agricultural societies in the same regions, those are much more hierarchical.

So, difficult to get there in our economic system, but at least something to look into as inspiration.

But I'm not an anthropologist, so this is only based on what I heard from anthropologists.

With pagan harvest festivals approaching, also something to think about in regards to how one relates or doesn't relate to agricultural mythology of that kind.

And as additional food for thought: In anticosmic satanism, the myth of Cain is interpreted as one of the move from herbalism (i.e. hunter-gatherers more or less), represented by Cain, to agriculturalism, represented by Abel. I think the usual interpretation is rather one of agriculture (Cain) vs. pastorialism (Abel) based on their sacrifices, though, which would also fit into the nomadic society this myth was formed in (if it was), yet I can see how one could also re-interpret them, and it's fun how this re-interpretation is common in one of the most anti-society forms of satanism.

Kapalika

Re: anarcho satanism
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2020, 11:22:14 am »
Don't confuse being against states as against society. An anarchist would argue that states, nations, ect are inherently hostile to societies.
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Liu

Re: anarcho satanism
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2020, 03:23:18 pm »
Still, different forms of societies seem to lead to different forms of states, though - the hunter-gatherer societies are pretty much anarchistic, whereas in other societies, other forms of states are common as well.
It's not really clear-cut, but if you look for example here: https://d-place.org/combinations/EA001_EA066#1/30/152
If you sort by the last column, which is about how much the society relies on gathering, you can see that those societies who rely on it highly have no or little stratification.
Similar here:
https://d-place.org/combinations/SCCS83_SCCS11#1/14/151
Almost all societies in which gathering plays any role in this dataset are stateless.
(admittedly based on a fairly small sample)

If you compare that with agricultural societies you get a much more mixed picture:
https://d-place.org/combinations/EA066_EA005#1/30/152
https://d-place.org/combinations/SCCS83_SCCS3#1/14/151