Author Topic: Is the RHP a myth?  (Read 586 times)

Hapu

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2020, 01:47:47 pm »
OK. I never interact with Eastern types, but as much as I'd like to, I can't argue away their existence. For example, the Sikhs use that repulsive language about "merging with the divine."
https://www.sikhdharma.org/ideology-beliefs/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrt_espPR5wIVCZSzCh0nMQuvEAAYASAAEgJsifD_BwE

But these people in their mental illness are not illustrative of all or even most of the RHP.

To be universal in our language, we'll have to divide the RHP and LHP into smaller categories. For example, the "merge with the divine" wackos will be one category of RHP. Likewise, our "isolate intelligence" comrades will be one category of LHP.

Liu

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2020, 02:22:51 pm »
You can find some of that same rhetoric in Gnostic Satanism as well, though. Which would thereby make this a RHP.
Liber Azerate, which is kinda the foundational text of Gnostic Satanism, talks a lot about ego-dissolution and returning to the original chaos, which is an all-powerful essence from which creation came to be and which still is in everything.

In both cases, Sikhs and Gnostics, you can't be too sure just by that rhetoric whether they really mean complete loss of self or rather loss of delusions about self and "uniting" with the core of one's psyche. They have quite opposing ideas about what characterizes that core of the psyche, though, and I would rather assume the Gnostics to actually mean this, whereas the Sikhs may be more about real dissolution. But I don't know.

(Perhaps we should invite some self-identifying RHPers into this discussion? ;))
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 02:24:40 pm by Liu »

Melias

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2020, 02:41:35 pm »
Perfectly valid points! It's a shame I have lost touch over the years, I wonder what they would think about this forum! *chuckles* Jesting of course, they would loathe to associate with me now. Thinking of how "I ended up", in their own words...

Totally agree with the sub-categorization. It's necessary if we're to arrive to a truly inclusive definition.

Hapu

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2020, 03:09:56 pm »
If - and I emphasize IF - the Gnostic Satanists seek to dissolve their egos, then they're the same ilk as the Sikhs.

I really can't stand that mindset. So many viewpoints just roll off my back like water, but ego dissolution offends my sensibilities to a radical extent.

So let's see. I think we need at least four categories:

1. RHP Mystics (dissolve the ego into something bigger)
2. RHP Crusaders (spread the word of God and do His will)
3. LHP Alien Intellects (preserve and strengthen one's isolate intelligence)
4. LHP Sorcerers (master the physical plane by any and all means, including magic)

I feel like we're designing a Role Playing Game, which, by the way, I always wanted to do.

Melias

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2020, 03:20:28 pm »
a roleplaying game eh? You're going to love one of my next posts then.

can I add a 2.5 category? Of those morally grey, also operating both magic that traditional society condemns while furthering their own goals (black or white magic still to fulfill own needs) and also being sceptical or materialistic enough to be grounded in some way to money or to living a life almost indistinguishable to the rest around him/her.

I have met four people like that, so I assume there must be more.

Hapu

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2020, 03:50:50 pm »
What's the difference between #4 and #2.5?

For instance, I think both categories would apply to me.

Melias

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2020, 04:26:25 pm »
#4 is unashamedly LHP while #2.5 may be self-deluded and actually misleading others as well as to think it belongs to both camps. A #2.5 person may be an idealist with a crusader type mentality while being utterly selfish (with or without magickal practice) in private. In the corporate world he could be the company's savior or a Save-the-World campaigner, while also engaging in money laundering, black magick, siphoning loved ones' energy to promote his ego etc while they would still think for themselves as being quite noble. A #4 person would be far clearer in understanding of self and of others and wouldn't be engaged on both sides of the fence.

Onyx

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2020, 04:49:38 pm »
Quote from: Hapu
What I mostly want is money!

Ditto.


Liu

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2020, 05:20:02 pm »
This game design project is more difficult than you make it look ;)
But some first ideas:

RHP Fluffies (spread love and peace because that's the Good thing to do)
LHP Mystics/Diabolators (preserve and strengthen the self as a manifestation of the divine)

Unreligious Atheists (aka True Neutral) (find a meaning and live it while you're still alive)

#4 is unashamedly LHP while #2.5 may be self-deluded and actually misleading others as well as to think it belongs to both camps. A #2.5 person may be an idealist with a crusader type mentality while being utterly selfish (with or without magickal practice) in private. In the corporate world he could be the company's savior or a Save-the-World campaigner, while also engaging in money laundering, black magick, siphoning loved ones' energy to promote his ego etc while they would still think for themselves as being quite noble. A #4 person would be far clearer in understanding of self and of others and wouldn't be engaged on both sides of the fence.
The 2.5 mostly sounds like an immature 4.

Hapu

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2020, 06:29:43 pm »
I think atheists are just one more example of #3: LHP Alien Intellects (preserve and strengthen one's isolate intelligence). Their whole schtick is to preserve and strengthen their empirical reason in the face of all the foo-foo that gets thrown at us. They also share the metaphysics of an amoral, uncaring universe, and the focus on the physical plane. What mainly distinguishes them from, say, the Setian, is the lack of any belief in an afterlife. As for the principle of Xeper, it's entirely congenial to atheism. What else is evolution but Xeper?

I wonder how many Setians are secretly (or not so secretly) atheist? Of course I vomit out my mouth the atheists who contort themselves into pretzels trying to fit their mindset into an altruistic moral framework.


Etu Malku

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2020, 10:22:18 pm »
More than 50% 0f the world's population of 7.7 billion are Abrahamic and of the RHP, seeking to be Absolved/Merged in one way or another into the All/Absolute/God etc. I gather no one knows any of these people?  :huh:

Perennial philosophy is the understanding that the 'RHP' religions share a single, universal doctrine. This doctrine posits that the highest good that human life can achieve is through the union with a Supreme Being / Energy of the Universe. The way in which this is achieved is through the deception of one's conscious awareness into believing that one has been accepted by this Supreme Being/Energy/All otherwise known as the objective universe.

This is not the stance one takes on the Western LHP, the objective universe is seen as it plainly is, a non-conscious, unintelligent memetic mechanism composed of Time, Space & Matter. To absolve one's self into this is antithetic to the Western LHP goals of individuation and autotheism.

Symbolically, this resistance to RHP perennialism is the basis of such occult structures as the Tree of Daath and the ideals behind furthering the Fall of the Tree of Life because it is an imperfect Tree and in its place, a new and perfected Tree (that of your subjective universe with you as god) is nurtured.

RHP's teache that these two categories are an illusion that in reality, the two are identical. The solution is to subordinate the "illusion" of self-awareness, of the Psyche, to the "reality" of God, Nature, etc.

LHP's teache that the two are capable of being perceived as distinct and are in fact distinct as a result of the existence of the Principle of Isolate Consciousness. By cultivating and nurturing this intelligence as a separate and unique quality we develop our own individually determined freedom/liberation.

RHP illusion is a feeling of 'I Am', wherein the psyche comes to believe that it is inside us. Our psyche (GS) needs to learn to perceive itself, it has manifested here to self-create contents that are actualized and ordered in a new way. As the self becomes a better agent for the GS, the GS reorders, evolves, and expands itself.

The term Western Left Hand Path has evolved over time into many different paths, including Satanism, Luciferianism, Setianism, Ahrimanism, Mercurænism, and other similar paths. They all share certain common traits – apathy towards cultural norms/values, high respect for subjective experience, and perhaps most importantly, a focus on the individual Self (as something isolate and unnatural from the objective universe).
IAMTHATIAMNOT

Melias

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2020, 02:08:03 am »
@Liu : Yes 2.5 sounds like an immature 4, only because the majority of the common people are immature and shallow in their spiritual pursuits. We must not ignore what is possibly the largest number, which is partly fueled by ignorance and partly by hypocrisy.
The RHP Fluffies you mentioned are another example of a shallow group.
So if we include this, we should include the 2.5 as well.

@Hapu : Basically I agree, but I believe we should include Liu's categorization as well, and also take note of what Etu Malku is pointing out. Surely we can see how the majority RHP people seek a kind of union with their idealized God after death, right? I mean, the whole principle of their ethics is to be good boys and girls and get the gold prize in some form of Heaven.

I will try to unite your categories so far:

0.RHP Fluffies (spread love and peace because that's the Good thing to do)
1. RHP Mystics (dissolve the ego into something bigger)
2. RHP Crusaders (spread the word of God and do His will)
2.5 Self-deluded Greys (on both sides of the fence)
3. LHP Alien Intellects (preserve and strengthen one's isolate intelligence)
includes: Unreligious Atheists (aka True Neutral) (find a meaning and live it while you're still alive)
4. LHP Sorcerers (master the physical plane by any and all means, including magic)
5. LHP Mystics/Diabolators (preserve and strengthen the self as a manifestation of the divine)

@Etu Malku : I agree with your observation of the Abrahamists RHP as well as the reorganization of the Greater Soul. Definitely agree with the last paragraph.

Hapu

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2020, 10:34:43 am »
My elderly mother has been a practicing Catholic for her entire long life. If I asked her, “Do you want to dissolve your ego into Jesus?” – she would first ask me to explain what the hell I was going on about. If I managed to get the idea across to her, she would ask me if I was feeling all right, because I was sounding crazy. Then she would state the blatantly fucking obvious to me: What she wants is to be with Jesus in heaven, two people, one the Son of God, the other not, both happy.

I will now announce – with my tongue only lightly in cheek – the Hapu’s Mother Doctrine:

If Hapu’s mother does not aspire to it, then it is not RHP, unless it is one of a menu of options.

Liu

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2020, 12:03:48 pm »
More than 50% 0f the world's population of 7.7 billion are Abrahamic and of the RHP, seeking to be Absolved/Merged in one way or another into the All/Absolute/God etc. I gather no one knows any of these people?  :huh:
Well I don't know many truly religious people. But I went to religious class in school, and even to Sunday school for a year, and I have never heard of anything like that there.
I know that there are some forms of mysticism that strive for that - but that's something that I predominately encountered in Sanskrit and Middle High German mystic texts, and in texts by contemporary Satanists, and in neither category it was the majority - and it often was ambiguous as to whether it actually meant full loss of self or rather overcoming of delusions of ego or reaching a specific meditative state.

Many of these (not only the satanic ones) also had clear sexual connotations (bride mysticism is common in Krishna-focused Hinduism and in certain forms of medieval Christianity), so in these cases this "merger" was rather seen as a state of eternal bliss in the presence of one's beloved deity - not a ceasing of one's own existence. Still somehow RHP if this involves suppressing central characteristics of one's own psyche due to considering them impure, but different from what you seem to describe.

Perhaps my impression of the rareness of what you describe is just due to my foci of study, but I would assume that if it was as widespread in contemporary mainstream forms of Abrahamic religion as it seems to you I would have encountered it there more often.

I think atheists are just one more example of #3: LHP Alien Intellects (preserve and strengthen one's isolate intelligence). Their whole schtick is to preserve and strengthen their empirical reason in the face of all the foo-foo that gets thrown at us. They also share the metaphysics of an amoral, uncaring universe, and the focus on the physical plane. What mainly distinguishes them from, say, the Setian, is the lack of any belief in an afterlife. As for the principle of Xeper, it's entirely congenial to atheism. What else is evolution but Xeper?
Hm, in that case, all the LHP-categories we have listed thus far only really differ by:
- their metaphysical assumptions (possibility of afterlife and literal apotheosis, existence of deities)
- their plane of focus regarding their goals in life (physical/mundane, mental/spiritual, mix thereof)
- possibly: their level of maturity

The RHP Fluffies you mentioned are another example of a shallow group.
Are the Crusader's any less shallow?

Etu Malku

Re: Is the RHP a myth?
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2020, 08:50:26 pm »
More than 50% 0f the world's population of 7.7 billion are Abrahamic and of the RHP, seeking to be Absolved/Merged in one way or another into the All/Absolute/God etc. I gather no one knows any of these people?  :huh:
Well I don't know many truly religious people. But I went to religious class in school, and even to Sunday school for a year, and I have never heard of anything like that there.
I know that there are some forms of mysticism that strive for that - but that's something that I predominately encountered in Sanskrit and Middle High German mystic texts, and in texts by contemporary Satanists, and in neither category it was the majority - and it often was ambiguous as to whether it actually meant full loss of self or rather overcoming of delusions of ego or reaching a specific meditative state.

Many of these (not only the satanic ones) also had clear sexual connotations (bride mysticism is common in Krishna-focused Hinduism and in certain forms of medieval Christianity), so in these cases this "merger" was rather seen as a state of eternal bliss in the presence of one's beloved deity - not a ceasing of one's own existence. Still somehow RHP if this involves suppressing central characteristics of one's own psyche due to considering them impure, but different from what you seem to describe.

Perhaps my impression of the rareness of what you describe is just due to my foci of study, but I would assume that if it was as widespread in contemporary mainstream forms of Abrahamic religion as it seems to you I would have encountered it there more often.

In Vedic cosmology the 'All' is Brahman, from Brahman came Vishnu and Shiva. Brahma is the creator of the universe and Shiva is the destroyer. Vishnu is the preserver and protector of the universe.

Prominent Shaivites state the following:
"Sadhana leads to the assimilation of the object (world) in the subject (I) until the Self (Shiva) stands revealed as one with the universe"

"The individual is a mini Shiva, who, when he recognizes his true self, becomes one with the universal consciousness"

"The attainment of Shivatva may be understood as complete merger in Shiva"

There appears to be a merger with Shiva and with the universe (Brahman) which is a Right Hand Path ideal labeled LHP for whatever reason. In any case, it does not fit the Western LHP ideal where there is no merger and nothing heterodox.

The way I see it Shiva cannot exist without Brahman or orthodox Hinduism, therefore it is a construct of orthodox Hinduism like Theistic Satanism is a construct of orthodox Christianity. The Hindu system appears to be a Heterdoxy system, not an Antinomian one which is my understanding of the Western LHP and the difference between the two.

Essentially, the LHP of the East differs from the Western ideal through its connection with something divine. Although the Eastern LHP clearly, if perhaps convoluted, separates one's essence from the Objective Universe / Absolute it, however, does this in order for the adherent to remain in the company of the Beloved, this is where East and West differ.


IAMTHATIAMNOT