Watain member denied entry to USA

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Kapalika

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Watain member denied entry to USA
« on: November 23, 2019, 05:38:21 pm »
https://loudwire.com/waitain-guitarist-denied-us-entry/

Basically he looked spooky, they searched his phone found more spooky stuff and revoked his passport and deported him, a Swede, to Mexico. Rest of band barely got through after tons of legal cost.

I want to say more but read article on way to work, I'll try to comment my fuller thoughts later.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 03:24:45 am by Kapalika »
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My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

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Xepera-maSet

Re: Watain member denied entry to USA
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2019, 08:51:49 pm »
Satanic bands were being held at borders long before Trump lol. I remember Ghost originally was turned back. Manson is from here an still managed to get banned from certain cities and states.

It's not ok. But the Trump flip was pretty funny haha.

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Kapalika

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Re: Watain member denied entry to USA
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2019, 03:46:10 am »
Fixed the font size idk what that was about.

The Trump remark is fitting because the original reason they looked at him was the day after return ticket back to Mexico. (which as he explained, was to save money as it's cheaper to book that way sometimes). It was that it was to Mexico that triggered it.

Also, there have been a lot more cases of people being wrongfully denied entry, or even American citizens being deported or detained since Trump has been encouraging and doing what he can to clamp down on the borders. No matter what someone thinks of undocumented immigration, a lot of people here on legitment business or even citizens born in America have been having a ton more trouble, from people born in the contiguous United States, to especially nationals like Puerto Ricans.

To add to what I wanted to say this morning, although they didn't want to use these words, they basically experienced religious discrimination because they are Satanists. Even though they are not citizens they are protected by the bill of rights ([size=80%]https://www.maniatislawoffice.com/blog/2018/08/do-non-citizens-have-constitutional-rights.shtml[/size]). So they might be able to seek damages for how much money they lost in legal costs and from the concerts. At least, if I was in their position I would. They will probably have to fight more to  get the last member in, barely any of them gained entry.

Though knowing them I don't think they would, and I suspect a lot of people might see it as some kind of sign of weakness almost, even though it's not, going to civil court is very hair pulling and takes a lot of energy and courage IMO to then be grilled with tons of lies that took so much of your damn money. It's often easier to just cut your losses then do what needs to be done to get what is rightfully yours...  I say this about going to court from personal experience.

I do want to see them live one day, but this kinda makes me worry if I'll ever get to see them in their full glory :/

Also as far as cities/states banning like Manson and stuff, that's usually some loophole for them preforming, not simply entering the place SFAIK.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 02:15:22 am by Kapalika »
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Re: Watain member denied entry to USA
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2019, 03:46:53 am »
I had no idea about this  :facepalm:

I'm supposed to see them live next month
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." ~Ernest Henley

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Onyx

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Re: Watain member denied entry to USA
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2019, 02:47:20 pm »
I don't know much about that band, but to be honest people are likely to dig their own graves with this sort of talk:

Quote
Does Watain identify with Satanic practices that some other bands have been involved in, like church burnings and sacrifices?

We very much identify with that. And when you're working with these kind of anarchies in their primal forms, and you evolve with them, you are calling upon things that eventually will have to manifest physically. And that is why the history of black metal is filled with stories of big buildings being set on fire, of big mass suicides, of people who have been murdered, and people who have murdered. It is those things coming to life from the music. They are very natural outcomes.

Statements like that are typical of extremist Northern European Satanists. The only "real ones", you know.

I mean look: I don't care what someone chooses to do in their spare time, but I don't necessarily want to hear about it. I'm not into terrorism or blood sacrifices, but yet can't be overly judgmental as I've eaten my fair share of hamburgers and chicken wings.

Nevertheless, the problem I see with philosophies such as these is lack of balance. Some choose instead to allow themselves to go way off the deep end and embrace bad ideas, engage in bad behavior - often with bad results.

So to make a long story short, the "Real Satanists" can bitch and moan about all they want all of the injustice of the world, yet ironically intentionally cruel and brutal injustice appears to be exactly what they stand for.

Edit: I like some Black Metal for the aesthetics, but can't say I agree more than partially with some of the more extreme philosophies occasionally involved.


« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 03:00:36 pm by Onyx »

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MRT

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Re: Watain member denied entry to USA
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2019, 03:00:13 pm »
i aggree with @Onyx

The most funny thing of all is that statemets like that boost the 'satanic' image of the black metal scene, and believe me, it's not.
I've been playing and selling black metal for over a decade and the whole satanism thing is mostly an image, even with bands where it looks like it's a real thing.

There are offcourse bands who are what they claim, just like the Watain frontman and some members of Dissection to give some example, but overall, the occult aspect is a big joke.

A few blocks away from me there lives a frontman from a band who is respected in the 'orthodox black metal' scene.
Their lyrics, statements, album titles and concept in dept Satanic and stuff.. I was impressed, until i spoke the people involved.

'nah we're not really into that stuff. we do read some books about it yeah, but that's just for our lyrics.''

Just like them, i've met ALOT of big shots in the scene from who i thought were real practitoners, including some members from my former band, holding the image of a satanist high, until doing a ritual and shit being effective.
'oh but i was never really into it'

The whole thing made me so angry at a point.
Nowdays i have a laugh about it and being very glad i'm not into that stuff anymore
haha!
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 03:17:10 pm by MRT »

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MRT

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Re: Watain member denied entry to USA
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2019, 03:14:51 pm »
And to recall what @Onyx said, there is many talk and image on 'being extreme' and 'killing this, setting on fire that, violence here, extremism there' and blablabla; satanism is extreme and yes you have to go beyond  limits which isn't for the mundane beings.
But neither should it be an excuse for imo low and lesser forms evil and that is something which these days is too much around.

Besides, all that Johnny Bravo stuff, whatever, there sure are places for that and if that's what you need, fine for you!
But the thing is that, how fancy and dark lots of these people claim to be, most of them can't even properly manifest a few bucks with a simple prosperity spell, so focus more on your spirituality and magic instead of the whole bad ass shit.
Cause else i'm afraid you're not realizing what you're actually claiming to be.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 09:16:48 pm by MRT »

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Onyx

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Re: Watain member denied entry to USA
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2019, 03:29:30 pm »
I like some "extreme" forms of music, but consider the songs to be subjective experiences.

I'll go ahead and reveal something here: When I was around 11-12 years old, I engaged in self-mutilation (sticking pins and needles into my forehead, cutting myself, jumping out of trees or off the roof, etc).

Why would I do that? It's because grew up in a life of abuse and neglect and my emotions were bottled up, so the only way I could feel pain was to experience it physically. Since then I've learned that "big boys cry too", and also that if emotions are not dealt with as nature would have it, everything will just funnel down to anger.

We all have an "emotional well" of tears. If the bucket isn't lowered into it to keep the water level to a minimum then it all overflows, resulting in anger. (Which, in my opinion and experience, is not an emotion at all but rather a consequence of not being capable of grieving ones losses in life.)

Everyone is going to get angry once in a while, but I don't get angry near as much as I did as a child or adolescent because I've come to terms with the reality of human psychology.

Therefore I have no need to burn down churches, slit the throats of cats (or chop heads off of snakes) and wiping the sacrificial blood on my face or body.

I've derailed this thread a bit, but the people on their personal Left-Hand Paths who tend to impress me the most are those who acknowledge the realities of neuro-psychiatry and psychology.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 03:55:42 pm by Onyx »

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MRT

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Re: Watain member denied entry to USA
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2019, 03:53:39 pm »
@Onyx
Respect that you share these things.
I've been through lots of abuse too which had brought me to severe mental illness as a teenager and young adult.
Also self mutilation was a common thing for me.
Cutting, burning, hitting myself, etc
And it is what you say, everybody has feelings wheter it's anger or joy.
But it is the task of the practitioner of the Black Arts to grow beyond them and become master.
Not the other way around

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Liu

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Re: Watain member denied entry to USA
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2019, 03:58:59 pm »
The US are notoriously difficult to enter. I frequently hear stories from colleagues who wanted to travel to the US to attend conferences on linguistics, of all things, and didn't get a visa due to their home country or similar or even without any known reason.

I don't know much about that band, but to be honest people are likely to dig their own graves with this sort of talk:
Yeah, I'd hope for them that they actually mean what they say and say it for the sake of their freedom of speech or have some other good reason for saying it. Sure might be a good exercise in self-development to publicly stand up to one's convictions, but might also be not so good an idea.

In any case, whether someone is serious about occultism or only acts like it for an image (which seems like a stupid idea to me, but well, people have their reasons) shouldn't influence how one is being treated by officials, though.

It does seem a tad unwise to me to have compromising pictures on one's phone when getting into US borders control. He could have put them on some cloud or at least encrypted them.

But well, what am I saying, I guess I should learn that lesson myself and delete my web browser history next time before I take an airplane ;) (No one ever checked my phone etc, but I have never traveled to the US after all.)

And considering the band's reputation it might not even have made a difference for him.

Quote
Therefore I have no need to burn down churches, slit the throats of cats (or chop heads off of snakes) and wiping the sacrificial blood on my face or body.
I don't have a need for that either (albeit smearing myself with blood sounds quite appealing ^^).
But I wouldn't equate anger and violence fantasies. I hardly ever feel/felt the former, and I had the latter all through my teenage years and beyond. Nor do acts like that need to be based on either.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 04:01:42 pm by Liu »

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Km Anu

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Re: Watain member denied entry to USA
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2019, 11:44:20 pm »
I like some "extreme" forms of music, but consider the songs to be subjective experiences.

I'll go ahead and reveal something here: When I was around 11-12 years old, I engaged in self-mutilation (sticking pins and needles into my forehead, cutting myself, jumping out of trees or off the roof, etc).

Why would I do that? It's because grew up in a life of abuse and neglect and my emotions were bottled up, so the only way I could feel pain was to experience it physically. Since then I've learned that "big boys cry too", and also that if emotions are not dealt with as nature would have it, everything will just funnel down to anger.

We all have an "emotional well" of tears. If the bucket isn't lowered into it to keep the water level to a minimum then it all overflows, resulting in anger. (Which, in my opinion and experience, is not an emotion at all but rather a consequence of not being capable of grieving ones losses in life.)

Everyone is going to get angry once in a while, but I don't get angry near as much as I did as a child or adolescent because I've come to terms with the reality of human psychology.

Therefore I have no need to burn down churches, slit the throats of cats (or chop heads off of snakes) and wiping the sacrificial blood on my face or body.

I've derailed this thread a bit, but the people on their personal Left-Hand Paths who tend to impress me the most are those who acknowledge the realities of neuro-psychiatry and psychology.

Much of my practice hinges on a human need for expression. The idea is that mind experiences stress, body is compelled to externalize that stress. If someone is punching me in the stomache I'm compelled to hit them back to get them to stop.

To deal with the pain I may be motivated to complain or shout. We feel the same need to do something about emotional pain, it's no different. Connecting to and controlling these expressions is how I make my artwork really.

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Km Anu

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Re: Watain member denied entry to USA
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2019, 11:51:05 pm »




Quote
Therefore I have no need to burn down churches, slit the throats of cats (or chop heads off of snakes) and wiping the sacrificial blood on my face or body.
I don't have a need for that either (albeit smearing myself with blood sounds quite appealing ^^).
But I wouldn't equate anger and violence fantasies. I hardly ever feel/felt the former, and I had the latter all through my teenage years and beyond. Nor do acts like that need to be based on either.

I agree that no one performs these actions out of necessity,  but both are illegal in the United states. Since we can choose how we express publicly, it's in a person's own best interest to act in accordance with law. Or be subjected to its consequences.

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Kapalika

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Re: Watain member denied entry to USA
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2019, 02:22:51 am »
Since many aren't aware, all members are actual theistic Satanists practicing some form of anti cosmic Satanism, they view their musical performances as actual rituals. There is a 2012 DvD of their live performances inserted with some dialog about the meaning of their music and such. They discuss magic, ritual, deities and such. Shiva is cited as one of the symbols involved in their decision to use the trident for example.

They are kind of associated with the MLO, at least in the past, I don't know about today.

As far as being extreme, they also have said this about the right wing, taken from wikipedia:

"However, the band have publicly distanced themselves from, and openly criticised, Antisemitism and far-right ideologies, describing these as " one of the greatest evils that people today know". Danielsson said that "That is the one thing you cannot glorify. The Anti-Semitic and right-wing conservative connections that people have long accused black metal to be a platform for have very little to do with what we stand for. To me, it should be quite obvious that we would have been some of the first people to be executed in the Third Reich with the whole idea of the National Socialists being based upon a kingdom of bright-eyed little Aryans, and we are quite honestly the very opposite of that. [Laughs] There’s an extremely important line to draw there, and I’ve realized that that’s the only devil that people know these days." "
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

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MRT

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Re: Watain member denied entry to USA
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2019, 09:13:48 am »
Yeah Erik was an MLO member if i remember correctly.
One of the very few bands who are serious about their spirituality
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 09:17:52 am by MRT »

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Km Anu

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Re: Watain member denied entry to USA
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2019, 09:42:26 am »
Since many aren't aware, all members are actual theistic Satanists practicing some form of anti cosmic Satanism, they view their musical performances as actual rituals. There is a 2012 DvD of their live performances inserted with some dialog about the meaning of their music and such. They discuss magic, ritual, deities and such. Shiva is cited as one of the symbols involved in their decision to use the trident for example.

They are kind of associated with the MLO, at least in the past, I don't know about today.

As far as being extreme, they also have said this about the right wing, taken from wikipedia:

"However, the band have publicly distanced themselves from, and openly criticised, Antisemitism and far-right ideologies, describing these as " one of the greatest evils that people today know". Danielsson said that "That is the one thing you cannot glorify. The Anti-Semitic and right-wing conservative connections that people have long accused black metal to be a platform for have very little to do with what we stand for. To me, it should be quite obvious that we would have been some of the first people to be executed in the Third Reich with the whole idea of the National Socialists being based upon a kingdom of bright-eyed little Aryans, and we are quite honestly the very opposite of that. [Laughs] There’s an extremely important line to draw there, and I’ve realized that that’s the only devil that people know these days." "

This evidence supports the assertion that they aren't racist, not that they do not hold extreme views.

Also Racism and Anti-semitism isnt supported by official right-wing parties in america.