Author Topic: Beliefs and Arguments September 2019  (Read 515 times)

Etu Malku

Re: Beliefs and Arguments September 2019
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2019, 11:03:20 pm »
Well actually___

There's nothing anyone looking for a debate could say here that hasn't been said a million times before, so I'll put that on a shelf for a minute.

What I'm actually curious about is why does anyone feel the need to justify the way they happen to see the world in scientific terms? Do they really need the support of the scientific community and academia to validate how they apprehend their experiences? It's an implicit assent to the merits of Scientism as far as I can tell.

It's effectively inviting ants to your picnic saying that science "definitively" proves something so controversial. The thing is science has neither proven nor disprove such claims, and by going out there suggesting it does, well - that's just not a fight you're going to win - you're going to have a bad time with that, I'll tell you what.

Now a stance that I actually tip my hat to - bizarre as it may sound - are those who are like "yeah, I believe this because that's just what I believe, so go fuck yourself with your scientific method, endlessly discursive philosophic inquiry, and bookish pedantry - this is how I vector my experiences, and I don't remember asking anyone to come and try to educate me on anything 'Copernicus'"

'Saves a ton of trouble, I think. Plus it is a pretty boss move to-boot.
you seem to be referring to The Black Flame!
IAMTHATIAMNOT

Km Anu

Re: Beliefs and Arguments September 2019
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2019, 11:41:58 pm »
Quote
What I'm actually curious about is why does anyone feel the need to justify the way they happen to see the world in scientific terms? Do they really need the support of the scientific community and academia to validate how they apprehend their experiences? It's an implicit assent to the merits of Scientism as far as I can tell.

For the same reason we understand chemistry by practicing alchemy. Material evidence presents a more objective point of reference because its difficult to argue against.

It's a good place to ground discussion.

Williams1001

Re: Beliefs and Arguments September 2019
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2019, 01:04:46 am »
For the same reason we understand chemistry by practicing alchemy. Material evidence presents a more objective point of reference because its difficult to argue against.

It's a good place to ground discussion.

i have a shirt that says "everything happens for a reason and that reason is usually physics"

however, one thing that i don't like about materialism and the sciences is that they always (maybe not always, but a lot of times) ignore or reject the possibility of there being more to reality than mere physical phenomena. this is why i don't consider myself an atheist, even though i try to look for material and physical explanations first. i also don't consider myself to be an agnostic either since what you experience can be dependent on your perception of reality. so by changing how you perceive reality, you can be able to experience the gods.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 01:31:41 am by Williams1001 »

Km Anu

Re: Beliefs and Arguments September 2019
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2019, 05:46:52 am »
For the same reason we understand chemistry by practicing alchemy. Material evidence presents a more objective point of reference because its difficult to argue against.

It's a good place to ground discussion.

i have a shirt that says "everything happens for a reason and that reason is usually physics"

however, one thing that i don't like about materialism and the sciences is that they always (maybe not always, but a lot of times) ignore or reject the possibility of there being more to reality than mere physical phenomena. this is why i don't consider myself an atheist, even though i try to look for material and physical explanations first. i also don't consider myself to be an agnostic either since what you experience can be dependent on your perception of reality. so by changing how you perceive reality, you can be able to experience the gods.

It seems you view my belief in material science as evidence that I reject metaphysical phenomena. I actually take both in consideration and mold my beliefs in accordance with scientific evidence. Science shows the impact of psychology, psychology shows the impact of spiritualism. Furthermore to reject an idea because it fits in one category when it also fits in the other two limits best practice.

I base my discipline in spiritual concepts evidenced by science, or feasibly linked to physical phenomenon. To take things at face value without questioning their validity is faith based practice, something modern practitioners are straying away from. To put logic and wonder before blind faith is to access the waters of discovery. To look at them and accept them as they are we accept only their pale reflection.

Edit: I also wanted to point out that in my original explanation I presented an occult art that supplied foundational concepts for a material science.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 08:16:40 am by Km Anu »

Williams1001

Re: Beliefs and Arguments September 2019
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2019, 04:14:39 pm »
It seems you view my belief in material science as evidence that I reject metaphysical phenomena.

that wasn't even on my mind when i was typing my post. it wasn't about you, the focus was on the hardcore materialists which is why i included the parenthesis that says "maybe not always, but a lot of times". i quoted you since i thought my post could go along with your discussion of science.

as a note: i do believe science and logical reasoning to be important since science has a lot to offer and logic helps to avoid being delusional.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 04:19:35 pm by Williams1001 »