Author Topic: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?  (Read 462 times)

Hapu

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What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« on: September 08, 2019, 02:29:37 pm »
I'm not really asking what organizations you've been a member of, but please talk about that if you want to, and especially if you think it will add clarity.

I'm more asking a question along these lines:

Have you experimented with Chaos Magick?

How about atheistic (or I-theistic) Greater Black Magic?

Do you play around with manipulating people - oh, sorry, Lesser Black Magic?

Have you seen and acted on the mythological congruity of Lesser Black Magic and the Norse trickster Loki?

Have you ever attempted to bind a demon?

Have you experimented with serving Satan? (This could be Lucifer, Set, Cthulhu, or whoever holds an interest for you.) BONUS question here: would serving Satan really just be an odd form of Right Hand Path?

Have you ever experimented with lycanthropy? Ever worked in that regard with Loki's wolfish son Fenrir?

I already know we have some yes answers to this one: Have you experimented with vampirism?

You get the idea. I'll especially be interested in paths you've trodden that I may never have heard of.

(Edited - I deleted a portion at the bottom of this post because, re-reading it, it occurred to me that it was too personal.)

« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 05:05:52 pm by Hapu »
Slither whither thou wouldst.

Hapu

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Re: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2019, 05:33:22 pm »
I'm more asking a question along these lines:

In this post I give my own answers.

Have you experimented with Chaos Magick?

Yes. This is probably my most natural LH Path because it doesn't have any rules at all, yet nevertheless I haven't done it in a while. For some reason I no longer feel drawn to it.

How about atheistic (or I-theistic) Greater Black Magic?

I've dabbled in this, but I only did it properly once, and that was in a group setting, in which I was a guest.

Do you play around with manipulating people - oh, sorry, Lesser Black Magic?

No. I just don't have this in me. Other people are too real to me. I'm too aware of other people as ends in themselves. But I think I could go down this path against an enemy. I don't have any of those right now but if I did, I might dabble in manipulation.

Have you seen and acted on the mythological congruity of Lesser Black Magic and the Norse trickster Loki?

I see it but I haven't acted on it. However, against an enemy, if I lashed out via manipulation, I would use all available ammunition, and the psychological power of the Loki archetype would certainly be ammunition.

Have you ever attempted to bind a demon?

No. For there to be any point to this, I would have to believe in the existence of demons, and I personally don't. Furthermore, if I did believe in demons, I would be afraid of them. Too afraid to try to bind them.

Have you experimented with serving Satan? (This could be Lucifer, Set, Cthulhu, or whoever holds an interest for you.) BONUS question here: would serving Satan really just be an odd form of Right Hand Path?

I personally think everything I do, regardless what it is or why I do it, serves the deity that caused me to come into existence. But I also don't consider that deity to be distinct from myself.

Have you ever experimented with lycanthropy? Ever worked in that regard with Loki's wolfish son Fenrir?

Yes, I've experimented with lycanthropy, but I didn't make use of the Fenrir archetype. If I had, think I probably would have had better results. However, I did manage to achieve catharsis.

I already know we have some yes answers to this one: Have you experimented with vampirism?

No. I was intrigued by the threads on the vampirism board but here again, I'm too aware of other people as ends in themselves.

You get the idea. I'll especially be interested in paths you've trodden that I may never have heard of.

I wonder if some sort of Frankenstein's Monster motif would be workable. I definitely feel a pull to this. I think there's a catharsis this motif could make available.

(Edited - I deleted a portion at the bottom of this post because, re-reading it, it occurred to me that it was too personal.)

My apologies to anyone who saw the portion I've now deleted. It wasn't meant to be creepy - my whole mind set when I typed it was scholarly - but it came across as creepy after re-reading it.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 05:34:55 pm by Hapu »
Slither whither thou wouldst.

Liu

Re: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2019, 05:52:08 pm »
I thought I already answered before your edit, but I don't see my comment? Or perhaps I misclicked something out of tiredness.
Well, could retrieve it and here it is again:

Have you experimented with Chaos Magick?
Did some sigil magick, if that counts.
Also, I would call my general approach fairly chaos-magick-related in so far as that I assume that magick works by one's belief in it. I'm just not very good at changing my own beliefs, too much ingrained skepticism.

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How about atheistic (or I-theistic) Greater Black Magic?
As an agnostic pantheistic Satanist, I in some sense am an atheist, in some sense an itheist, in some even a theist.
But beyond that definition-issue: Atheistic in so far as that I switch between treating my deity as an actual being and as a symbol for an impersonal principle. Itheistic in so far as considering myself an incarnation of the divine (like everyone else is, too).
Whether to consider that as actually practicing magick, who knows.

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Do you play around with manipulating people - oh, sorry, Lesser Black Magic?
Who doesn't do a very basic form of that automatically? I'm bad at it, though.

Quote
Have you seen and acted on the mythological congruity of Lesser Black Magic and the Norse trickster Loki?

Have you ever attempted to bind a demon?
Neither.
I'm agnostic regarding the existence of demons, but the more convincing claims stemmed from people who treated demons with respect and who warned against trying to bind them.
And if demons are just parts of one's psyche, binding them also doesn't sound like the best approach.

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Have you experimented with serving Satan? (This could be Lucifer, Set, Cthulhu, or whoever holds an interest for you.) BONUS question here: would serving Satan really just be an odd form of Right Hand Path?
Pretty much the focus of my spirituality.
And yeah, by some LHP-definitions I'm a right-hand-pather. It's just terms anyway.

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Have you ever experimented with lycanthropy? Ever worked in that regard with Loki's wolfish son Fenrir?
In a way...
I'm a furry/otherkin (i.e. I have phantom-limb sensations that give me the impression that my mental self differs from my physical body), and I have now and then listened to transformation hypnosis files (not much wolf-related stuff, though, more about feeling like a carefree pet :mrgreen:)

Quote
Have you experimented with vampirism?
Once or twice, but didn't have the impression that this is something for me.

Quote
You get the idea. I'll especially be interested in paths you've trodden that I may never have heard of.
I wouldn't say I'm treading much any path, I'm just dabbling around with whatever strikes my fancy.
Quote
(Edited - I deleted a portion at the bottom of this post because, re-reading it, it occurred to me that it was too personal.)
We have had threads on sex magick here before, why would it be a creepy question? Or was it the asking about moral LHPs that you now considered creepy?
Well, I was thinking about writing some article (perhaps for the next TIS) on chastity and the LHP - so much about that.

Etu Malku

Re: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2019, 06:19:33 pm »
Have you experimented with Chaos Magick?
Yes, I am a Chaote

How about atheistic (or I-theistic) Greater Black Magic?
I don't understand what atheism or Itheism has to do with GBM? Perhaps, we don't share the same definition.

Do you play around with manipulating people - oh, sorry, Lesser Black Magic?
Yes

Have you seen and acted on the mythological congruity of Lesser Black Magic and the Norse trickster Loki?
As a Mercuræn, I naturally work with Trickster deities.

Have you ever attempted to bind a demon?
Yes

Have you experimented with serving Satan? (This could be Lucifer, Set, Cthulhu, or whoever holds an interest for you.) BONUS question here: would serving Satan really just be an odd form of Right Hand Path?
I serve no one other than my Greater Self

Have you ever experimented with lycanthropy? Ever worked in that regard with Loki's wolfish son Fenrir?
In the Herald of the Dawn we have a specialized order which works with Lycanthropy

I already know we have some yes answers to this one: Have you experimented with vampirism?
In the Herald of the Dawn we have a specialized order which works with Vampyre Majiq & Predatory Spiritualism.

IAMTHATIAMNOT

Km Anu

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Re: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2019, 09:51:11 am »
Have you experimented with Chaos Magick?

Yes, and I actively apply the philosophy still. Chaos magic taught me to be more flexible and apply all things to all things.

How about atheistic (or I-theistic) Greater Black Magic?

Hmm....

I wouldnt describe my ritual work as either of these. When working with divinities I tend to be Acosmic. Entities that I interact with really do exist (for myself anyway) and I bring them into myself through GBM.

Do you play around with manipulating people - oh, sorry, Lesser Black Magic?

Human nature, is it not? We all manipulate, its just a question of why. Yes I do.

Have you seen and acted on the mythological congruity of Lesser Black Magic and the Norse trickster Loki?

This symbolism fits poorly with my personal cosmology and has been replaced with an alternate and combative model.

Have you ever attempted to bind a demon?

My answer would depend on your definition of demon. Yes, I suppose.

have you experimented with serving Satan? (This could be Lucifer, Set, Cthulhu, or whoever holds an interest for you.) BONUS question here: would serving Satan really just be an odd form of Right Hand Path?

Again, I dont serve anyone except myself by intent. If I choose to serve another it is to meet my goals. I honor my teachers with worship, or invoke concepts by luring them to aspects of myself. Connecting with them. I do not expect help from anything that demands servitude.

I define RHP as servitude to negate true knowledge in pursuit of unawareness. An extreme polarity to infinate creative power, the path of emptiness through accepting pre-existing structure or faith without reason. So it would depend on the person's concept of satan and what he relresents


Have you ever experimented with lycanthropy? Ever worked in that regard with Loki's wolfish son Fenrir?


This doesnt fit my cosmology, I use a similar concept of shamanic attavisms of ancestors and beasts.

Quote
I already know we have some yes answers to this one: Have you experimented with vampirism?

Nah. No real intrest.






idgo

Re: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2019, 07:35:44 pm »
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Have you experimented with Chaos Magick?

More than experimented. Concepts drawn from Chaos Magic/k are foundational to my meta-system -- the guiding set of principles and tendencies and other such intangibles that I've set up to prevent my experimentation from destroying things I'd rather keep. A programmer might call it a sandbox for running belief systems in.

Quote
How about atheistic (or I-theistic) Greater Black Magic?

Yep. I find GBM to be relatively theism-irrelevant unless applied to the parts of the self related to theism. Years ago I would've used the term "agnostic" in its lay sense of "neither theistic nor atheistic" to describe this theism-irrelevance, but these days my interpretation of the concept of gnosis would make agnostic a misnomer for it.

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Do you play around with manipulating people - oh, sorry, Lesser Black Magic?

Used to like crazy. I developed the ability of manipulation long before developing the capacity for moderation in its use. The biggest drawback was that I do it through building a certain rapport with the person being manipulated, which is absolutely a two-way link regardless of how I might want to pretend that it works. I find that anyone under active and long-term manipulation represents a certain burden of responsibility which must be attended to, lest neglecting it allow some unwanted surprise to appear.

I have more or less quit that these days, simply because I've found other techniques for getting the same outcomes with less ongoing work. I use select bits and pieces in daily life, and there is a certain narrow scope of situation in which I can use it to generate bonds that look like instant new friendships, but now I prioritize minimizing the ongoing expectations that people aim toward me.

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Have you seen and acted on the mythological congruity of Lesser Black Magic and the Norse trickster Loki?

I've played with the Loki archetype for fun and neurological tuning, but only at times after I'd more or less shelved LBM.

Quote
Have you ever attempted to bind a demon?

Nope, nor fully understood why I personally would ever want to. I toy with systems that include demons, but I ultimately model my perception of any demon as an attribute of my own mind, and thus already under my control.

Quote
Have you experimented with serving Satan? (This could be Lucifer, Set, Cthulhu, or whoever holds an interest for you.) BONUS question here: would serving Satan really just be an odd form of Right Hand Path?

I find that attempting to serve a personification that's experienced differently by everyone is relatively ineffective for me, because I end up controlling my experience of that personification to make it say whatever I want to hear. I've served actual humans in this way occasionally, which I find to be an enriching experience because it exercises the capacity to do things despite absolute personal reluctance.

IMO, considering a metaphysical force to be so real and so separate from oneself as to make it possible for one to meaningfully serve it is a very RHP-scented sort of thing.

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Have you ever experimented with lycanthropy? Ever worked in that regard with Loki's wolfish son Fenrir?

I've never had the experience of feeling a need for it. The tradeoffs necessary to transform in a way observable to others outweigh the benefits.

Quote
I already know we have some yes answers to this one: Have you experimented with vampirism?

ToV folks influenced the philosophies of a Teacher of mine, and I later learned the extent to which some of his lessons were influenced by their content. Developing a better understanding of Vampirism actually helped me spot the ways in which my recreational LBM work was creating an undesired reliance on others, and contributed to my decision to reduce it.

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You get the idea. I'll especially be interested in paths you've trodden that I may never have heard of.

Discordian philosophy retains a special place as my first introduction to a lot of advanced Chaos Magic/k concepts. I find the "psionics" community quite delightful for the scientific flavor of their approach to exploring energy.

edit: un-broke the quotes, apparently i forgot how to write markup when i first replied
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 04:16:07 pm by idgo »

Xepera maSet

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Re: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2019, 11:55:26 pm »
In no order:

Archetypal Satanism and Luciferianism. Theistic Satanism and Luciferianism. Thelema. Typhonianism. Some crazy New Age shit briefly back at the beginning.

Now Setianism.

"Do not try to make the sun rise by self-sacrifice,  but wait in confidence for the dawn, and enjoy the pleasure of the night."
- Crowley

Mindmaster

Re: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2019, 02:44:37 pm »

Have you experimented with serving Satan? (This could be Lucifer, Set, Cthulhu, or whoever holds an interest for you.) BONUS question here: would serving Satan really just be an odd form of Right Hand Path?



Not really, at least for most Theistic LHPers. My interpretation of "serving Satan" is maintaining an open mind that is liberated and learning and assisting others to achieve that aim. I respect and even love Satan very much, but similar to how a pupil loves their best teacher. I may not like what I've been taught (it's happened), but I know in the end it was probably for the best. (Though sometimes it takes a few years to see it. ;) )

Anyway, I don't view cultivating powers as very important though I've experimented with most of the various branches of modern magic to some degree. I'd say I use some Chaos magick but then everyone would think I was fapping over sigils all day and that's not what I do with it. For what I do regularly I've thrown most of occultism out window, so to speak, in favor of simpler and more direct methods. For example, greater black magic would seem a waste of time and resources to me with needless pomp and redundancy -- I've found that shorter rituals or even direct invocation without rites work far faster for me.

I have no idea about anything Norse, just not my wheelhouse... And, I've only "vampired" accidentally, lol. (I faced an extreme bout of illness and unfortunately my previous magickal training made me into a bit of an energy goblin unconsciously. I only noticed when others around me were getting sick as well, and were emotionally drained...) Normally, I wouldn't see the need for that activity -- I just don't understand the value, seems to make more trouble than it fixes. :D

NegSpec13

Re: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2019, 06:13:02 pm »
Since I;m relatively new to actual LHP workings I'll keep it simple.
I started out as a LaVeyan satanist around 1992 and remained in that area until I read Dr. Aquino's history of the Church. I consider myself Theistic now, well for around the last 10 years or so.

I've dabbled with sigils and probably worked a lot more LBM than I realised!

I did study Norse religion for quite a while but only ever worked with Odin.

Anyway, I suppose that's it, not much to show for nearly 30 years but it kept me out of churches so there's that at least.

crossfire

Re: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2019, 05:39:28 pm »
I'm not really asking what organizations you've been a member of, but please talk about that if you want to, and especially if you think it will add clarity.

I'm more asking a question along these lines:

Have you experimented with Chaos Magick?
yes

Quote
How about atheistic (or I-theistic) Greater Black Magic?
absolutely yes

Quote
Do you play around with manipulating people - oh, sorry, Lesser Black Magic?
I find it neither productive nor entertaining

Quote
Have you seen and acted on the mythological congruity of Lesser Black Magic and the Norse trickster Loki?
no

Quote
Have you ever attempted to bind a demon?
I'm more into resolving problems.  Binding--a form of repression--would be a last resort and would consider it as a failure.

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Have you experimented with serving Satan? (This could be Lucifer, Set, Cthulhu, or whoever holds an interest for you.) BONUS question here: would serving Satan really just be an odd form of Right Hand Path?
Not interested

Quote
Have you ever experimented with lycanthropy? Ever worked in that regard with Loki's wolfish son Fenrir?
Looked into it--not my cup of tea.

Quote
I already know we have some yes answers to this one: Have you experimented with vampirism?
I'm really not into LBM

"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

Kapalika

Re: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2019, 11:19:22 pm »
I've pretty much always been on the same journey, just that my understanding grew over time and things were added.

Have you experimented with Chaos Magick?

Kinda but not really.

How about atheistic (or I-theistic) Greater Black Magic?

I'm not sure what if meant by this, if it means magic without supernatural connotation or something else.

Do you play around with manipulating people - oh, sorry, Lesser Black Magic?

There's a difference between something benign and malicious. Some amount of social pressure is normal, outright manipulation is not.

Have you seen and acted on the mythological congruity of Lesser Black Magic and the Norse trickster Loki?

What?

Have you ever attempted to bind a demon?

Yep,  but not something I'd usually do.

Have you experimented with serving Satan? (This could be Lucifer, Set, Cthulhu, or whoever holds an interest for you.)

Kinda, but not sure what you mean.

BONUS question here: would serving Satan really just be an odd form of Right Hand Path?

No, it wouldn't necessarily be RHP, LHP comes from both tradition and individualism, the service to a deity is a tool of many in a practitioner's journey. Serving the deity is serving the self by proxy, not just symbolically but also in that you reap the benefits of the spiritual progress.

Have you ever experimented with lycanthropy? Ever worked in that regard with Loki's wolfish son Fenrir?

Nope. Never will.

I already know we have some yes answers to this one: Have you experimented with vampirism?

Whatdya mean by this?
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Hapu

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Re: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2019, 12:55:54 pm »
How about atheistic (or I-theistic) Greater Black Magic?

I'm not sure what is meant by this, if it means magic without supernatural connotation or something else.

It's the standard Church of Satan style of ritual. Their official position is naturalistic, materialistic, atheistic. They perform rituals as psychodramas with the goal of catharsis.

Have you seen and acted on the mythological congruity of Lesser Black Magic and the Norse trickster Loki?

What?

Lesser Black Magic is tricking people. Loki is a trickster. He practices Lesser Black Magic, albeit with the help of genuine magical powers. I've often thought that if I wanted to become a trickster (I don't) and if I believed in pantheons (I don't) I would seek to align myself with Loki.

Have you experimented with serving Satan? (This could be Lucifer, Set, Cthulhu, or whoever holds an interest for you.)

Kinda, but not sure what you mean.

BONUS question here: would serving Satan really just be an odd form of Right Hand Path?

No, it wouldn't necessarily be RHP, LHP comes from both tradition and individualism, the service to a deity is a tool of many in a practitioner's journey. Serving the deity is serving the self by proxy, not just symbolically but also in that you reap the benefits of the spiritual progress.

Interesting. I've never thought about servitude as a growth (or spiritual progress) strategy. I've only thought about servitude as a business transaction, a form of barter, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours." I suppose there's also servitude as allegiance to some entity one worships out of deep admiration or gratitude.

Allegiance. That word strikes a chord with me for some odd reason.

I already know we have some yes answers to this one: Have you experimented with vampirism?

Whatdya mean by this?

What I know of Vampirism I learned on the associated forum here on these boards.
Slither whither thou wouldst.

Liu

Re: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2019, 05:35:06 pm »
Interesting. I've never thought about servitude as a growth (or spiritual progress) strategy. I've only thought about servitude as a business transaction, a form of barter, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours." I suppose there's also servitude as allegiance to some entity one worships out of deep admiration or gratitude.
You didn't? Perhaps that will then help you better understand the benefits of my subby approach towards my deity which I mentioned in one of your threads recently.

Quote
Allegiance. That word strikes a chord with me for some odd reason.
I like that term. Feels like it represents quite well that feeling of belonging to, being devoted to, being of a deity and acknowledging it. A bit like loyalty but rooted much deeper.

Hapu

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Re: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2019, 09:14:43 pm »
Interesting. I've never thought about servitude as a growth (or spiritual progress) strategy. I've only thought about servitude as a business transaction, a form of barter, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours." I suppose there's also servitude as allegiance to some entity one worships out of deep admiration or gratitude.
You didn't? Perhaps that will then help you better understand the benefits of my subby approach towards my deity which I mentioned in one of your threads recently.

I'm glad you replied to this, Liu. I was thinking your approach might fit into this category but I see a possible difference. Do you view your deity as having a will that's separate from your own? I would think your answer would have to be yes for your approach to be servitude. But I may be getting lost in semantics.

Here's how I picture what you do. I'll phrase this as if it were I who were following this approach. I would come to the realization that I needed to begin or end some behavior in order to further my growth, and then I would do something ritualistic in which I imagined my deity commanding me to begin or end the behavior in question. I would then submit to this command as if it had originated from an external will, even though I knew full well that it had originated from my own will. I would thus be role-playing servitude, but I would know I was role-playing. I would be driven not by obedience but by logical consistency. I would be playing a game with myself, a game with rules, and I would obey those rules because otherwise I would be logically inconsistent.

Does the above bear any semblance to what you do/experience? Interestingly, I think it might fit Level 4 of Kohlberg's model of morality. I would be treating the commands of my deity as objective moral truths within the universe of the game I was playing. 

Allegiance. That word strikes a chord with me for some odd reason.
I like that term. Feels like it represents quite well that feeling of belonging to, being devoted to, being of a deity and acknowledging it. A bit like loyalty but rooted much deeper.

The first time I read your comment I saw the word "royalty" instead of the word "loyalty." And of course allegiance is something one would give to a royal personage; I.e., one's liege. In fact "liege" is the root word of "allegiance."

There's no etymological link but in English the word "legion" fits in nicely with "allegiance" and "liege."

The Hierarchy of Hell...
Slither whither thou wouldst.

Kapalika

Re: What LH Paths (plural) have you explored or attempted?
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2019, 10:56:03 pm »
Well, I asked for clarification because LaVeyans believe in the "supernormal", there is a connotation of some extra natural or unknown quantity to the rituals actually working and not just being psychodrama.


Contrast other forms of atheistic Satanism, and there is no connotation or outright statement of magic being "real" for a lack of a better word.


I have used the former method, with varying levels of success. The latter, I would liken to art or performance art and not much more with about the same level of effectiveness.
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo