Author Topic: Some CoS inside information  (Read 1201 times)

Km Anu

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Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2019, 11:23:42 am »
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Satanism is a religion of individualism, it makes no sense to me for a Satanist to be against trans people, particularly when there is a lot of medical literature, clinical evidence, and established effective treatments on the issue.

I really don't understand why a person's sexuality or chosen identity has anything to do with anyone within a satanic organization. So far as I can tell, no one NEEDS to talk about it either. Presenting an opinion of acceptance opens up a space for a counter opinion, when I cant fathom why either is relevant. Call people what they want to be called, let them identify however they like. For the work required, those things seem irrelevant to me. When striving to embody the prince of darkness, the only concern (in areas of identity) should really be the self. All else is a measure of agreeability, cohesion, and like-thinking. Identity of any kind shouldn't effect that, IMO.

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Not too much of an issue, but as I said, I don't think they would get legal problems from printing on the membership card whatever name you want to have written on there, which would be much more fitting for an organization focused on individualism.

If you lose the card and it contains a pseudonym as opposed to your real name, your identity is better protected.

Even my government will recognize a chosen allias. Name changes effect your birth certificate and Social security card, but it isn't ILLEGAL to put any name on anything. So if my government doesn't care, why do my fellow Satanists? They have no need to accurately identify me outside of continuity of identity. A simple time limitation on name changes would serve just fine. Give everyone 1 for free, and then put a cool down on it. I don't know any of your names, and I only know Xepra's gender, really. None of it effects how any of us interact, and I'm comfortable in stating that in person that information wouldn't hamper work. Another opinion :thumbsup:

Kapalika

Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2019, 12:01:35 pm »
I agree with @Liu  that that FAQ answer seems to be one big self given pat on the back, but I do agree that it's on point with talking about how LaVey accepted LGBT people from the start. I don't see anything incongruent with that, their recent actions and the situation. It would be like if someone joined and then started saying the CoS shouldn't take a stance on taxation of the churches... that's one of their big things.

This thread was weird for me though, in all honesty. I didn't think I'd be defending the CoS, given my general dislike of the organization. But I gotta give credit where it's due.

My guess is that some CoS members see standing up for LGBT+ rights as earning a "good guy badge" and they feel contemptuous of that

I never really considered that, but that would explain a lot about their attitudes on some issues, at least a facet of it.
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Mindmaster

Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2019, 04:23:57 pm »

Full disclosure, I'm technically a member of the CoS. Bought the damned card twice. Lost it twice. Messed around on their message board for a while. Didn't like it. Wasn't for me. I like it here better. More open-minded. More cosmopolitan.

My guess is that some CoS members see standing up for LGBT+ rights as earning a "good guy badge" and they feel contemptuous of that. Every bad guy is (or can be) somebody's good guy. Some CoS members don't like being the good guy. Most TST members, by contrast, very much enjoy the good guy role.

TST has embraced the Prometheus archetype, I think. The CoS largely hasn't. It was always available to them and they always knew it. They just preferred to be cosplay villains rather than heroes.

I don't stand up for LGBT+ because I feel it has nothing inherently to do with Satanism. And, Satan is all I have time for. Likewise, I don't care about TST because their focus is political activism -- something I think has nothing to do with Satanism. I'm not supportive of CoS demoting people who are allies of the LGBT+ community (at least not solely on that basis) either. It is amusing that someone attempting to portray themselves as a Satanist cares either way how they are perceived. Good or bad wouldn't that leave you at the mercy of the proclivities of the sheeple?

Satanism has always been about emancipation in the mental, emotional, and spiritual realm and it boggles my mind that one has to do or not do something at the behest of others in their organization. Pro or Anti-LGBT doesn't matter to me - they're still moving in the wrong direction. :D

I don't feel it's a Satanists place to involve oneself with issues that do not directly concern themselves anyway. But, it's also not these organizations duties to deal with the minutia of an individuals preferences at all. Though I don't see the attempt of doing necessarily as an attempt to enforce a dogma, but rather a sure sign that both organizations are completely deluded. :D

Kapalika

Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2019, 12:21:13 pm »
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I don't stand up for LGBT+ because I feel it has nothing inherently to do with Satanism

Weird then that Satanists identify as LGBT at a much higher rate than the general population. I would wager that it tangentially does in that Satanism embraces individuality and allows one to live their life as they want, loving who and what they want (so long as it's between consenting adults) without judgement.

LGBT issues are issues of individual freedom and autonomy. It might not be related to Satanism per se but the core idea of personal freedom and empowerment is.

In other words, supporting LGBT rights is one of many logical conclusions of Satanic values, theisic or not.
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Mindmaster

Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2019, 03:07:03 pm »
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I don't stand up for LGBT+ because I feel it has nothing inherently to do with Satanism

Weird then that Satanists identify as LGBT at a much higher rate than the general population. I would wager that it tangentially does in that Satanism embraces individuality and allows one to live their life as they want, loving who and what they want (so long as it's between consenting adults) without judgement.

LGBT issues are issues of individual freedom and autonomy. It might not be related to Satanism per se but the core idea of personal freedom and empowerment is.

In other words, supporting LGBT rights is one of many logical conclusions of Satanic values, theisic or not.

It really has nothing to do with it other than incidentally. I'd argue that for the most part people don't even make a decision on their sexual preferences they just do it. It depends on whether or not you think people make a decision to be gay or whatever and I don't think they do. Therefore, it doesn't have anything to do with empowerment or individuality to me -- it's just a biological reality that someone is inclined to and no decision was made. You don't become gay, straight, bi or whatever you just are. I have to exclude transgenders from that because I just think it's a more complicated matter. There is certainly a decision process there and it has nothing to do with ones sexual preference necessarily. (People always talk about them as the same things, but it's really completely different set of issues, IMHO. Transitioning MtF doesn't mean you stopped preferring the opposite biological sex, etc., or that you'd even desire a relation with a comparable FtM individual.)

Satanism rejects equality fundamentally, and also the idea that the approval of the masses is even a desired end. Philosophically, that would make you their pet for lack of a simpler analysis. The only identity that matters to Satanism is the individual, not the herd, not even the pro-LGBT herd. Likewise, it's a waste of Satanists time to even be involved in such issues especially when their own personal achievements, religious activities, and other goals aren't manifested because of all of these sorts of activist actions. Simply ask yourself: Who sets the LGBT agenda, you or someone else? If it's not you, Satanically, that's where you go wrong. That means someone else is the drivers seat... Even if you personally are LGBT it's still not really your business so to speak -- your business is taking care of the issues which would produce something good in your life.

Then there is the myth of LGBT lacking some rights -- it's foolish to even believe it... There have been social difficulties, but rights -- no rights needed to be given, they were already there. It confuses me endlessly that anyone thinks that these activists accomplished anything, especially for the fact that society was already moving toward the direction of acceptance due the fact that celebrities and other highly visible individuals have come out of that closet and it hasn't had any repercussions to their respective careers. That has been ongoing for the last forty or fifty years and is nothing new. Society has willingly moved toward acceptance as they got to know these folks in detail it wasn't a result of begging for it. Thus, this begging and the support of the begging are worthless and shameful activities. And, really... That's all it is... Begging authorities and society for fair consideration -- when, except in rare circumstance, it's already been given. Seeking approval of society regardless of matter directly though is just about the most un-Satanic thing you can do in my opinion. That's not what it's about, like, ever. Satanism is that healthy dose of "I don't give a fuck" that pushes you through anything. Society hates you because you're LGBT? Fuck 'em. That's the only right answer from a Satanic perspective.  CoS doesn't like transgenders? Fuck 'em. Do that enough, and you're headed in the right direction. When nothing is left but what is truly important to you in your mind because you don't give a single fuck about anything else you will literally be the "jedi master" so to speak of a really important philosophical bit of Satanism. :)

P.S. - You can really insert your favorite identity, political view, or whatever here. I still contend they have absolutely nothing to do with Satanism. They're all just different herds. :D
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 03:22:34 pm by Mindmaster »

Cabshear

Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2019, 03:45:04 pm »
When it comes to LGBTQ if it doesn't take money from my pocket, or infringe on my personal liberty then what others do behind closed doors, with consenting adults, is none of my business. Rights as a concept are very questionable. Does Nature really grant us rights? I doubt this since Nature is not a conscious force. Natural selection exists, despite our feelings about it. There is no "voting" this force out of existence.

If someone recognizes that they are transgender then that's their individual right! They must recognize this and seek out what makes them happy. However, I draw the line when I am asked to be tolerant of these rights and then they are turned around and used against my children. When schools are forcing parents to give teens hormone blockers (which will cause irreversible damage and possible sterility later on in life if they stay on the blockers.) When transvestites in devil horns are reading books to 4 and 5 year olds and letting the kids lay on top of them. When 8 year old half naked boys are twerking at gay pride parades around adult men with dildos glued to a morphie suit. Desmond is not amazing, he is being brainwashed by liberal parents trying to grand-stand and shine up their political goodguy badges, using their kids as fodder.

https://youtu.be/3YWNMunlx6w

This doesn't look like fighting for rights, this looks like using impressionable minds to push a political agenda. Everyone flipped the fuck out when Christians were giving out Darwin's book, with an intro defaming evolution, at college campuses. Yet, very few are scratching their chins about this one!

https://youtu.be/pbm03NcEcvg

Threatening to attack someone for not speaking the way they want you to speak. This isn't fighting for rights. It's forcing everyone else to bend to your personal views and values. This is Solipsism plain and simple. The trans woman didn't have to throw a temper tantrum and trash the store, but she did because everyone wasn't doing what she wanted! I don't agree, but this is exactly why Conservatives see this as a mental illness.


Do not harm little children is one of the Rules of the Earth and I see some "progressive values" as emotional and psychological harm. Same as brainwashing kids that an eternal torture chamber exists after death, unless they blindly follow some religion. It's the same as kids being told their nazi scum if they don't take hormone blockers and accept pedophilia.

However, people are looking the other way because it's "progressive." I don't force things on other people, however it seems we live in a day-in-age were things are being forced on me. That I am some white nationalist nazi if I don't "accept" these people's somewhat wreak-less behavior.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 03:58:28 pm by Cabshear »
Warmest Regards,

Fenrys F
-Vampire Initiate and Satanist

Liu

Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2019, 06:11:13 pm »
It really has nothing to do with it other than incidentally. I'd argue that for the most part people don't even make a decision on their sexual preferences they just do it. It depends on whether or not you think people make a decision to be gay or whatever and I don't think they do. Therefore, it doesn't have anything to do with empowerment or individuality to me -- it's just a biological reality that someone is inclined to and no decision was made. You don't become gay, straight, bi or whatever you just are. I have to exclude transgenders from that because I just think it's a more complicated matter. There is certainly a decision process there and it has nothing to do with ones sexual preference necessarily. (People always talk about them as the same things, but it's really completely different set of issues, IMHO. Transitioning MtF doesn't mean you stopped preferring the opposite biological sex, etc., or that you'd even desire a relation with a comparable FtM individual.)
I think there is some causal relationship between being LGBTQ+ and being LHP.
If one is LHP, one does a lot of selfwork, so if one hadn't been aware/certain of one's sexual or gender queerness beforehand, it's likely to come to light. Also the tolerance on the path makes it much easier to acknowledge one's queerness. Therefore, the amount of LHPers who are queer without knowing it is smaller than in the general population.
And if one already knew it before one entered the LHP, it may have contributed to one's decision to become an LHPer, due to the aforementioned tolerance, and also because it can benefit one in dealing with any mental health issues caused by suppressing or having to hide one's queerness.

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Satanism rejects equality fundamentally, and also the idea that the approval of the masses is even a desired end. Philosophically, that would make you their pet for lack of a simpler analysis. The only identity that matters to Satanism is the individual, not the herd, not even the pro-LGBT herd.
...unless it's among their personal values to support rights of sexual preference and gender expression.

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Then there is the myth of LGBT lacking some rights -- it's foolish to even believe it... There have been social difficulties, but rights -- no rights needed to be given, they were already there.
From what I heard about the US, the legal situation seems quite a bit worse than here in Germany.

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It confuses me endlessly that anyone thinks that these activists accomplished anything, especially for the fact that society was already moving toward the direction of acceptance due the fact that celebrities and other highly visible individuals have come out of that closet and it hasn't had any repercussions to their respective careers. That has been ongoing for the last forty or fifty years and is nothing new. Society has willingly moved toward acceptance as they got to know these folks in detail it wasn't a result of begging for it. Thus, this begging and the support of the begging are worthless and shameful activities. And, really... That's all it is... Begging authorities and society for fair consideration -- when, except in rare circumstance, it's already been given. Seeking approval of society regardless of matter directly though is just about the most un-Satanic thing you can do in my opinion. That's not what it's about, like, ever. Satanism is that healthy dose of "I don't give a fuck" that pushes you through anything. Society hates you because you're LGBT? Fuck 'em. That's the only right answer from a Satanic perspective.  CoS doesn't like transgenders? Fuck 'em. Do that enough, and you're headed in the right direction. When nothing is left but what is truly important to you in your mind because you don't give a single fuck about anything else you will literally be the "jedi master" so to speak of a really important philosophical bit of Satanism. :)

P.S. - You can really insert your favorite identity, political view, or whatever here. I still contend they have absolutely nothing to do with Satanism. They're all just different herds. :D
I would agree that for the purpose of changing the minds of homophobic or transphobic people, activism doesn't help, it may even further convince them of their prejudices.
I hardly face any discrimination for being trans here (well I also don't talk about it that often). The only explicitly negative reaction I heard of was a friend of my dad saying that transpeople on pride parades are just attention-hungry. Pride parades aren't exactly the same thing as activism and have their own purpose, but it shows that they can have the opposite effect from the intended one.

If someone recognizes that they are transgender then that's their individual right! They must recognize this and seek out what makes them happy. However, I draw the line when I am asked to be tolerant of these rights and then they are turned around and used against my children. When schools are forcing parents to give teens hormone blockers (which will cause irreversible damage and possible sterility later on in life if they stay on the blockers.)
Haven't heard of any such case of the parents being forced by the school, but I also don't keep up with the news.
I consider hormone blockers to be a very difficult to decide issue. I mean, I would certainly have been happier if I had never grown boobs, but it took me 10 years to come to the conclusion that I don't like to have boobs due to being trans and not due to any other mental issue. I kinda doubt that a teen kid is already able to determine that. Still better than getting surgery at that age.

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When 8 year old half naked boys are twerking at gay pride parades around adult men with dildos glued to a morphie suit. Desmond is not amazing, he is being brainwashed by liberal parents trying to grand-stand and shine up their political goodguy badges, using their kids as fodder.
I've never been to a pride parade and I don't know who's that Desmond. That stuff does sound like bad parenting, but I don't know the details.

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When transvestites in devil horns are reading books to 4 and 5 year olds and letting the kids lay on top of them.
https://youtu.be/3YWNMunlx6w

A drag queen is a cisgender male. That's relatively unrelated to transgender people.
Don't really see the issue there, though.

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https://youtu.be/pbm03NcEcvg

Threatening to attack someone for not speaking the way they want you to speak. This isn't fighting for rights. It's forcing everyone else to bend to your personal views and values. This is Solipsism plain and simple. The trans woman didn't have to throw a temper tantrum and trash the store, but she did because everyone wasn't doing what she wanted! I don't agree, but this is exactly why Conservatives see this as a mental illness.
I really would need to know the circumstances here to judge that.

Kapalika

Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2019, 07:53:11 pm »
Ugh. well im about to do some errands so I''ll address what just stuck out to me.


First, yes the LGBT lack certain rights in America depending on where you live, and in a lot of the world. A large part of why I moved to California so was I didn't have to worry about getting fired/not hired for being trans and to have a right to healthcare that I was being denied (as in not even seen even if it had nothing to do with me being trans).


Since moving, I've had the fact that I'm trans (and it's hard to get around since I've not been able to change my name yet) and it's been 0% issue. In West Virginia where i'm from, housing, employment, being denied service at a place of business, and healthcare were not protected. I encountered issues most of those before moving to a place that they were protected under law.


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When schools are forcing parents to give teens hormone blockers

That's never and never will happen. If anything the vast majority of trans positive doctors won't even give them to anyone under 18 let alone force anyone to take them. A doctor can't force anyone to take anything.

------

As for the last thing, that video of the storming of the gamestop, they had been harassing her for quite a while and refusing service. It wasn't just like they misgendered her once and she went off. There is like an hour of shit left out of that and everyone  always take it way out of context, kind of like how the gay cake thing was taken out of context (when they were doxxed by the cake store owners and receiving death threats as a result and it got so bad they had to move, that's what the suit was about).

Always look at the context people.
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Hapu

Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2019, 08:27:40 pm »
Seeking approval of society regardless of matter directly though is just about the most un-Satanic thing you can do in my opinion. That's not what it's about, like, ever. Satanism is that healthy dose of "I don't give a fuck" that pushes you through anything. Society hates you because you're LGBT? Fuck 'em. That's the only right answer from a Satanic perspective.  CoS doesn't like transgenders? Fuck 'em. Do that enough, and you're headed in the right direction. When nothing is left but what is truly important to you in your mind because you don't give a single fuck about anything else you will literally be the "jedi master" so to speak of a really important philosophical bit of Satanism. :)

^^^
This

P.S. - You can really insert your favorite identity, political view, or whatever here. I still contend they have absolutely nothing to do with Satanism. They're all just different herds. :D

^^^^^
This too


Peace is a lie, for by opposition I evolve.
Comfort is a lie, for by hardship I evolve.
Mercy is a lie, for by severity I evolve.
Purity is a lie, for by defilement I evolve.
Obedience is a lie, for by rebellion I evolve.
Order is a lie, for by chaos I evolve.
Continuity is a lie, for by death I evolve.
I am the Demon in the Flesh.

IALPRT

  • Guest
Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2019, 12:02:29 am »
It seems there's a storm coming for CoS, and at the center of it is the question of transgenderism. On one side are Satanists who believe things should stay apolitical and individual, and the other wants take the stand that a transgender individual is objectively the sex they identify with, not their "physical" gender.

The issue is that Peter, Peggy, and Blanche all side with the latter, including many high ranking CoS members.

And Peter, Peggy, and Blanche happen to be right about this particular issue.

As a wise man once said "facts don't care about your feelings". Men who feel as if they are women are still men. Women who feel as if they are men are still women. This is just biological fact. That it is an objective fact of nature is key. Neither surgery nor hormone replacement changes what is true at the chromosomal level.

I don't think they're arguing that one shouldn't be free to modify their body in anyway they so choose. What they're arguing is if doing so is sufficient to objectively change one's gender or that others should be forced to act as if it has. I'm with them on this. That it isn't.

This, in and of itself, is not a political issue at all except inasmuch as some transgenders choose to make it one. Fact is I don't care what laws are or are not on the books, as far as I'm concerned, if a dude who went through all the trouble of surgery and hormone replacement to "become" a women insists that I call him a "she", I will tell "him" specifically and in no uncertain terms, "to go kick rocks, sir".

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

Moreover, if people happen to find it creepy, gross, and possibly symptomatic of some underlying psychological issue, they are more than free to do so. They do not have to play along with another person's delusion. However, I should stress, I do not disapprove of another's free choice to engage in self-deception even to that radical extent. It is a choice just as all body modifications are. That is not the issue. The issue is when I am forced to accommodate what I know to be untrue in order to spare another human beings feelings.

When you start meandering into trains of thought that open what is objectively so to the whim and accommodation of subjective needs to an extent beyond willful suspension of disbelief, you begin venturing far off-center of what LaVeyan Satanism originally stood for. I am pleased to see that the current administration has not lost sight of this.

Possibly the C/S will see a decline in numbers over this matter, but they will never suffer the fate of those whose principles are swayed by mass acceptance and what is currently fashionable. To think that they should consider doing otherwise implies a glaring misapprehension of what the C/S actually stands for. It's not for the masses. It, like nature herself, is not a liberal democracy and it does not care one bit about anyone's feelings.

I say kudos to them, for once, on their stance in this matter.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 12:56:26 am by IALPRT »

Liu

Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2019, 05:24:36 am »
It seems there's a storm coming for CoS, and at the center of it is the question of transgenderism. On one side are Satanists who believe things should stay apolitical and individual, and the other wants take the stand that a transgender individual is objectively the sex they identify with, not their "physical" gender.

The issue is that Peter, Peggy, and Blanche all side with the latter, including many high ranking CoS members.

And Peter, Peggy, and Blanche happen to be right about this particular issue.

As a wise man once said "facts don't care about your feelings". Men who feel as if they are women are still men. Women who feel as if they are men are still women. This is just biological fact. That it is an objective fact of nature is key. Neither surgery nor hormone replacement changes what is true at the chromosomal level.

Depends on the definition of "man" and "woman". If you mean "person of these respective chromosomes" or "person who was born with the respective kinds of genitals", then sure.
But the 3 CoS members in question were quite obviously talking about the mental gender, not about the physical sex.

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I don't think they're arguing that one shouldn't be free to modify their body in anyway they so choose. What they're arguing is if doing so is sufficient to objectively change one's gender or that others should be forced to act as if it has. I'm with them on this. That it isn't.

This, in and of itself, is not a political issue at all except inasmuch as some transgenders choose to make it one. Fact is I don't care what laws are or are not on the books, as far as I'm concerned, if a dude who went through all the trouble of surgery and hormone replacement to "become" a women insists that I call him a "she", I will tell "him" specifically and in no uncertain terms, "to go kick rocks, sir".

Why would you do so if you agree with them? I think you mis-read something, they are saying that being transgender objectively means being of the opposite gender of one's physical sex. Which likely also means that they are in favor of treating people as their preferred gender.

And in most cases of encountering a trans-person after transitioning you wouldn't even know they are trans - why go out of your way to address someone according to their chromosomes if you know their chromosomes, if in 99% of cases you won't?

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Moreover, if people happen to find it creepy, gross, and possibly symptomatic of some underlying psychological issue, they are more than free to do so. They do not have to play along with another person's delusion. However, I should stress, I do not disapprove of another's free choice to engage in self-deception even to that radical extent. It is a choice just as all body modifications are. That is not the issue. The issue is when I am forced to accommodate what I know to be untrue in order to spare another human beings feelings.
I don't know about other trans-people, but for me transitioning has nothing to do with any self-deception that it would physically make me a male. Physically, I'm basically an intersexual now. Transitioning is about feeling more comfortable in one's body. It also is, to a certain degree, about influencing how others perceive you, and I do feel much more comfortable being considered a guy and being referred to as a he (even though I don't really identify with either gender). But it's the less important aspect.

IALPRT

  • Guest
Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2019, 05:45:56 am »
What I have to go on is in the OP "On one side are Satanists who believe things should stay apolitical and individual" to which I agree.

and

"the other wants take the stand that a transgender individual is objectively the sex they identify with, not their 'physical' gender." [sic] to which I do not agree. Sex is a function of one's physiology.

Having read the actual article just now, though, https://www.churchofsatan.com/a-redhead-named-peggy/
I see I was hastily optimistic in my assumptions. They've gone soft.

Even so: it is up to the Satanist to assert their own identity. It is not up to the Satanist to insist the world pander to it.

Tangential after-thought: how the C/S' vision of Satanism which at least was at one time predicated on the idea of man as "just another animal" manages to reconcile speaking to matters of "gender" - a term reserved exclusively for human animals whereas with nonhuman animals there is only sex - at all would be, I suspect, highly amusing to hear
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 06:07:34 am by IALPRT »

Liu

Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2019, 06:06:54 am »
What I have to go on is in the OP "On one side are Satanists who believe things should stay apolitical and individual" to which I agree.

and

"the other wants take the stand that a transgender individual is objectively the sex they identify with, not their 'physical' gender." [sic] to which I do not agree. Sex is a function of one's physiology.

They are using the terms gender and sex wrongly there, they should be swapped as I pointed out earlier in this thread, and even then things are not well-phrased.
But I guess that wouldn't really make a difference to you.

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Even so: it is up to the Satanist to assert their own identity. It is not up to the Satanist to insist the world pander to it.
If the Satanist in question considers it the easiest way to their own mental well-being then why not?
I can agree that it's more mature to develop coping strategies about being mis-gendered than to just get angry or depressed about it. Easier said than done, though.

IALPRT

  • Guest
Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2019, 06:11:47 am »
Correct. It wouldn't to me. If I am of the belief that man is just another animal, then there is and can only be sex as the word gender does not apply to animals. It is only in the sense of human beings being somehow "different" than animals that the whole issue of gender arises in the first place. An issue that I, personally, believe is complete and utter nonsense.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 06:14:15 am by IALPRT »

Liu

Re: Some CoS inside information
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2019, 06:27:34 am »
Correct. It wouldn't to me. If I am of the belief that man is just another animal, then there is and can only sex. The word gender does not apply to animals. It is only in the sense of human beings being somehow "different" than animals that the whole issue of gender arises in the first place.
I also consider gender mainly a social construct.

As I mentioned before, being trans is about not feeling comfortable with one's physical sexual characteristics, though, which is likely caused by some difference in the physical structure of the brain.
So changing one's physical sexual characteristics should solve those issues.

Nevertheless, even if gender is a social construct, it's a powerful one. It involves a ton of stereotypes and associations that play a role throughout everyday life.
Therefore, it makes sense that if someone can't identity with the gender people take them to be, they will feel misunderstood and will likely behave in gender-nonconform ways that they feel more comfortable with. That also applies to many people who aren't trans.

Since gender has some basis in physical characteristics, it's obvious why transsexuals (i.e. people who want to change their physical sexual characteristics) are often also gender-nonconform as described above. Add to that the stress from having the "wrong" physical sexual characteristics and it's completely understandable why being mis-gendered feels so bad that they make a political issue out of it.