Author Topic: 7th Satanic Statement  (Read 1068 times)

Liu

Re: 7th Satanic Statement
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2019, 06:35:39 am »
Perhaps I'm overlooking something, but could one of you tell me what you mean by spirit? Awareness?


That reminds me of some fourfold ontology I posited here some months ago based on Frege's philosophy of three worlds.

do you mind telling me where i can find this?
I haven't really looked that much into it either. The idea was proposed by Frege in "Der Gedanke", but besides that I can only refer you to

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_and_concrete#In_philosophy
and
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popper%27s_three_worlds

Both Frege's and Popper's three worlds are a bit different from the four worlds I mentioned above.

Hapu

Re: 7th Satanic Statement
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2019, 10:48:59 am »
interesting, maybe if spirit instead belongs to either the individual parts or the whole, but not both then animism may be a little more convincing. if spirit belongs to the individual, then electrons protons and neutrons can have spirits whereas atoms can't since an atom is a whole. or if spirit belongs to the whole and not the individual, then atoms can have a spirit, but not protons neutrons, or electrons, spirit may then be an emergent property. this seems better, but as for spirit of place, maybe we can discuss this further.

I think your idea of spirit belonging to wholes rather than parts is a promising one, and it actually plays quite well with the idea of spirit belonging to places rather than things. Every whole is a place, and every place is a whole, though not necessarily an isolated one, since rarely is anything in the universe truly isolated.

the only way i think a physical action can affect one's spiritual existence is if the person does something that is later regretted. then, as a spirit or subconsciousness, the person's depressed because what was done can't be undone. other than that, there nothing that can be done to affect one's spiritual existence.

That terrific article you had me read would lead us in a different direction from what you say here. Physical states can cause spiritual states.

this is why i read philosophy instead of new age nonsense. even occult knowledge is a type of philosophical knowledge. however, i feel like we are digressing from the main topic of this thread and the Amaymon thread. what do you say about moving these recent posts and the recent posts on the Amaymon thread to a new topic?

We're definitely digressing here on this thread. On the Amaymon thread I think we're still on topic.

If you start a new thread I'll follow you there.

Williams1001

Re: 7th Satanic Statement
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2019, 04:59:04 pm »
Perhaps I'm overlooking something, but could one of you tell me what you mean by spirit? Awareness?

thanks for the reference. what i mean by spirit is usually something that continues after death, it may be a mind, a life force, or whatever. the word has a lot of meanings, so i tend to avoid this complication by thinking of spirit in a vague and abstract way. this is also part of the reason why i study the mind and body interaction. i just started reading aristotle's writings on the soul to get a more rational understanding of it. however, i don't concern myself with the relationship between soul and spirit because of the meanings attached to them.  what i mean by awareness is just a knowledge of one's surroundings.

Williams1001

Re: 7th Satanic Statement
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2019, 05:09:22 pm »


We're definitely digressing here on this thread. On the Amaymon thread I think we're still on topic.

If you start a new thread I'll follow you there.

they are paralleling each other, so i will start a new topic. 

Williams1001

Re: 7th Satanic Statement
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2019, 11:08:25 pm »
As I've said elsewhere, I consider enlightenment to be a sham. I don't believe in it at all. I think gurus are con artists.

i wouldn't say all gurus are cons, only 95% of them are.

Kapalika

Re: 7th Satanic Statement
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2019, 02:27:01 am »
Following up, if I didn't respond to a specific point from that post I simply didn't have anything of value to add to that section so left it out.

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That isn't' what Buddha nature is (although the meaning can vary)

What then do you think it is? I found "potential for enlightenment" at multiple places but maybe they're all parroting the same error.

Essential nature of consciousness, from what I gather is the only universal quality. a Buddhist might give a better answer. Sometimes @crossfire posts here (last seen 4 days ago as of this post), she might have a better answer. I could always attempt to contextualize the other stuff I know with some googling but tbh I don't think I'd do the concept justice.

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I go further than that. I consider all enlightenment, regardless of the practitioner's species, as straight up make-believe. A con, a swindle. I've never heard of a single Hindu or Buddhist who seemed to operate on a different plane from the rest of us. Sure, some of them talk about cool things like ahimsa, but talk is cheap. I demand indisputable evidence of a life lived on a different plane of awareness - and that doesn't just mean philanthropy, because lots of rich people engage in that, and as far as I can tell, none of them are enlightened.

Some believe that you can't attain nirvana/moksha while still alive, so there is that.

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I'll wait for some evidence. But I'll say this much: if it turns out a kangaroo really can achieve satori or Nirvana and can be demonstrated to have done so, then I will immediately agree that Buddha nature belongs firmly under the umbrella of the 7th Satanic Statement, and I will do it gleefully, because I still say humans can't actually achieve those things. Show me a world where kangaroos can and humans can't and I will laugh my ass off with glee.

Because we don't know what's going on in a kangaroos' head that is going to be a tall order. Rather I wasn't saying they become enlightened, but that some animals just could *be* enlightened from the get-go. But yes, at that point we might be working with a demi-god like being rather than just an animal. Perhaps they manifest as humans so they can communicate with us, and we could explain away the rest with a highly intelligent animal might be able to after it's death (if we hold what I said about some thinking you can only do so after death).

I personally have my own theory about souls and this type of liberation (Moksha) level event; the short of it is that human souls are the only one I can say for sure are able to go to the "next stage" so to speak. I also don't think a whole human soul can reincarnate as an animal as it's too "big" and won't fit.

As a disclaimer though, I am not Buddhist but I think that as a Hindu I'm "adjacent enough" that it might offer some alternatives and/or expansion to the idea to make it viable. Essentially spirituality at all is the prerequisite, and some animals have been observed doing seemingly cultural or spiritual things (I believe I read about some great apes doing a ritual of some kind, and of course I mentioned the elephants already, which in addition, in the past sometimes people have played audio of the dead elephant and the alive ones freaked out).

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It's the logical conclusion of no fruit bat every achieving enlightenment. They must have to incarnate as a human to do it. Of course, if humans can't do it either, then the whole thing is just a sham, which is what I strongly expect to be true.

I was more implying extra terrestrial beings with comparable or far superior levels of intelligence and/or consciousness that may or may not be confined to their home planet. Essentially, in the vast Universe, why would things only ever reincarnate within a single planet?

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Many modern LH practitioners want power. How does power fit in with satori or Nirvana?

I suppose that the pursuit of boons and powers is more common in Hindu Tantra than Buddhist Tantra. In Hindu Tantra we call powers "Siddhis", however their misuse can cause ignorance (in the Sanskrit sense of the word). Essentially they can be spiritual road blocks or dead ends because they look no further once they attain power, and then they abuse that power. Generally this is why lineages and traditions were put in place, to control who gets access to these powers.

These powers can be used towards "nirvana" or Moksha, but it has to be a tool and not the end in itself. Aghori for example are sought to rid people of "evil" spirits that are hurting someone (but they pose no threat to that tantric, might even commune with them), and to confer blessings. They give these through their Siddhis. Power for power's sake is often subject to the whim of the ego, it has no direction, no purpose. It is like walking around with a hammer just to hammer nails for the sake of hammering nails, or to hammer nails for a reason other than for building something worthwhile.

So talk of power is a little moot if we don't talk about what one wants to do with that power. Many RHP practitioners of various traditions or religions also seek power, they just put it in other language, and I often don't like what certain RHP traditions do with that power (like oppress other groups). Power to them is to maintain a position of  social privilege through the use of irrational taboo and cultural domination.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 02:29:47 am by Kapalika »
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo