Author Topic: Simulation Hypothesis  (Read 445 times)

Cabshear

Simulation Hypothesis
« on: April 12, 2019, 01:41:26 am »
https://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.pdf

Greetings,

Above is a linked argument by Nick Bostrom who argues that we could be living in a complex computer simulation. A recent hypothesis has take new life amongst technologists in Silicon Valley, that we are living in a computer simulation.

"The universe is 13.8 billion years old, so any civilizations that may have arisen throughout the cosmos have had loads and loads of time to hone their technological know-how, the SpaceX founder and CEO Elon Musk explained early this morning (Sept. 7) during a long, wide-ranging and very entertaining appearance on comedian Joe Rogan's popular podcast"

The idea, made popular by the Matrix films by the Wachowski Brothers, has some serious truth to it, outside of the exhaustive mysticism that many of us LHP practitioners tend to reject.

And yet...

Video Games, Films, and VR have developed graphics that have become harder and harder to distinguish from what appears to be "real life." Thus, can we be so sure that have not done this before? It would seem crude to say that we are in a somewhat "real" MMORPG, but we not only have experience but we learn and grow from those experiences.

How does this play into a magical practice? Or why there are some who value this potential concept and others do not? In the fictitious story of Harry Potter there are muggles and there are magical oriented people. The muggles cannot see nor can they understand the bigger picture behind magic. Some of the even hostile to the idea. When it comes to programming there are some who see the GUI (Guided User Interface) and there are some who seem the underlying programming that gives life and functionality to that GUI. Some passionately deny that there is any underlying construct, that there is only the GUI. The first group the pops into my head are the "New Atheists" like Dawkins or Hitchens. Just as passionate and evangelical as the Christians that give their rebellion it's much needed fuel.

Magic has often been referred to as a "mental technology" it directs a potential non-local mind toward larger conceptualizations. Is it possible that magic could be a "hack" to the underlying construct which causes PSI phenomena? Or that it directs a non-local mind, within the construct, toward more opportunistic situations? While the Simulation Hypothesis is just that, a hypothesis I am curious if the existence of PSI phenomena and UFO phenomena could have something to do with the possibility of a simulation.

The Map is not the Territory. However, this could be a very useful map!

HS!

https://youtu.be/3d9i_0Ty7Cg

https://www.amazon.com/Simulation-Hypothesis-Computer-Scientist-Quantum-ebook/dp/B07M81F1KG/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1MUTCXVSJYA7Y&keywords=simulation+hypothesis&qid=1555033217&s=gateway&sprefix=simulation+hyp%2Caps%2C136&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

 
Warmest Regards,

Fenrys F
-Vampire Initiate and Satanist



idgo

Re: Simulation Hypothesis
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2019, 07:38:41 pm »
GUI is traditionally lengthened to "graphical", not "guided", though if we're doing custom backronyms my vote is for "godawful".

How does this play into a magical practice? Or why there are some who value this potential concept and others do not?

My current preferred technique for comparing theories or worldviews against one another is to look for differences in the outcomes that using each would yield. With this strategy, I notice that dogmatic atheism can help scientists use the tools of science to expand their knowledge and experience in directions and at velocities that could be prohibited by any attempt to balance it with religion. (then again, the SSOTBME compass of contrasting religion/science/magic/art is quite fresh in my mind right now and likely overrepresented in my reasoning).

I find that gaining fluency in new metaphors adds those metaphors as words to the vocabulary of extremely abstract thought, which can in turn occasionally trickle back into concrete thoughts and ideas that I might not have encountered if I'd restricted myself to the familiar. And "everything is the outcome of an underlying program" is one hell of a metaphor, because it raises questions about that program which someone without the metaphor might be unable to articulate, and thus they're questions that it's unlikely people have explored before, and that smells like a possibility of finding new "bugs" in the "reality program", or "rediscovering what magics work in our day and age", or whatever you want to call that outcome.

Most of those bugs are useless, sure. It's like, at the end of that one movie where they take the macguffin away to the warehouse full of crates? If you want to find all the other macguffins in the warehouse, you're better off looking in the closed crates than in the ones that've already been opened and looted, because although not all closed crates will have a treasure, all remaining treasures will be in some closed crate. That's the closest I can get right now to expressing why I see value in examining previously unexplored areas of thought, at least.

Magic has often been referred to as a "mental technology" it directs a potential non-local mind toward larger conceptualizations. Is it possible that magic could be a "hack" to the underlying construct which causes PSI phenomena? ... While the Simulation Hypothesis is just that, a hypothesis I am curious if the existence of PSI phenomena and UFO phenomena could have something to do with the possibility of a simulation.


I'd take "the map is not the territory" a step further, and claim that all words (perhaps all verbal thoughts as well) are the outcome of using the knife of consciousness to chop up "reality" into little pieces small enough not to choke one's logical faculties. This dispenses the handy metaphor that a scientist and an artist arguing about whose worldview is "really real" are like two diners, one of whom was served bacon and the other a pork chop, arguing about whose meal really came from a pig.

Have you ever watched speedruns of video games? They're delightful in how the runners follow every rule of the game as it was expressed by the coders (whether or not the coders intended to implement those rules is a whole other story), and yet manage to perform feats that would look from within the game entirely like magic. There's a moral in how they find such bugs, about how sometimes the things most popular to assume are least well enforced because they usually don't need to be because everyone assumes them, which also applies to social engineering and other modern low magicks.

The way you phrase your own questions smells to me to be adjacent to an argument that "magic", by its very nature, can only ever be discussed using metaphors. Hell, even science is taught predominantly with metaphor; culture is not without its similarities to a LISP machine building ever larger and subtler "words" out of smaller and coarser ones.

So yeah, asking "if there's an underlying consciousness, how could we tell? what could it do? what have I never done before that I could do now to see if its outcome proves or disproves it?" is the polar opposite of dogmatic religious belief, and could fall into "magic" or "science" depending on who happens to attempt it and how the results reproduce and what the scientific establishments of the day when you ask it happen to be like.

Or that it directs a non-local mind, within the construct, toward more opportunistic situations?

There's a science word really close to this, which I had filed as propriokinesis, but might actually be proprioception. I probably picked up the former from https://www.reddit.com/r/C_S_T/comments/99ck86/the_human_body_and_consciousness/ which, while a fun little read, is only tangentially related right here. All I mean by it when I use it is that the "I" bit of the brain seems to be incredibly flexible and happily scales itself up and back when we extend our bodies or take those enhancements off. Parking a car is a perfect example -- one usually thinks  "How close is my bumper to that wall?" or "how close am I?" rather than "how close is the car that I am driving?".

I suspect that if you took a dogmatic scientist and tried to get them to prove that "mind" is "local", as you seem to be using those terms, they might be unable to do it. Thus, I'd claim that your question is inherently magical already, because its prerequisite assumptions are somewhere between unproven and unprovable. And if we're working in the realm of magic, I can claim that transitively any magical question's answers will also be magical, and due to the defined constraints of magical thinking, I only need the presence of a positive example rather than the absence of any negative example as would be required for "scientific" proof.

If my mind was a car, SSOTBME was an overly enthusiastic tuneup. On the one hand my logical thought is playing nicer with my non-logical thought than before (it's making that funny NOPE sound a whole lot less!); on the other hand I'll be spilling drips of its snake oil for awhile.

UnH0lyDIvinity

Re: Simulation Hypothesis
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2019, 09:47:26 pm »
My take on the simulation hypothesis goes more like this: The Illuminati (of course, these guys again) have successfully hijacked all the major Practices, proffesions, and positions of power within government, finance, travel, health care, and entertainment. Thus ringing in what is commonly referred to as The New World Order, which is the period of time where the Illuminated ones have so much power over society and the hyper-consiousness that they essentially can write an "algorithm" for any desired event/proceeding to take place. Meaning that they were aware of  and intended for the Notre-Dame Cathedral to burn, or for the WTC being attacked on Sept. 11/2001
This essentially puts us in a "simulation" because all of the outcomes are already pre-determined and explored. We are basically living on a planet that has an Illuminated "super-computer" controlling everything that has, is, and will happen. People I have spoken with say that the only way out of this Matrix of Illumination is to achieve Gnosis. While others believe that entering into Gnosis submits you completely to the "Hive Mind" or United consciousness that it's said the Illuminati wishes to use to enslave the outsiders, the "regular" beings of mankind. I'd be interested to hear others thoughts on this as well, due to the fact that my acknowledgement of the Illuminati often has me labelled as "schizo" or "Beyond the grips of reality"
Do what thou wilt,
In Nomine Dei Luciferi Satanas Excelsi.

idgo

Re: Simulation Hypothesis
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2019, 11:45:10 pm »
My take on the simulation hypothesis goes more like this: The Illuminati (of course, these guys again) have successfully hijacked all the major Practices, proffesions, and positions of power within government, finance, travel, health care, and entertainment. Thus ringing in what is commonly referred to as The New World Order, which is the period of time where the Illuminated ones have so much power over society and the hyper-consiousness that they essentially can write an "algorithm" for any desired event/proceeding to take place. Meaning that they were aware of  and intended for the Notre-Dame Cathedral to burn, or for the WTC being attacked on Sept. 11/2001
This essentially puts us in a "simulation" because all of the outcomes are already pre-determined and explored. We are basically living on a planet that has an Illuminated "super-computer" controlling everything that has, is, and will happen. People I have spoken with say that the only way out of this Matrix of Illumination is to achieve Gnosis. While others believe that entering into Gnosis submits you completely to the "Hive Mind" or United consciousness that it's said the Illuminati wishes to use to enslave the outsiders, the "regular" beings of mankind. I'd be interested to hear others thoughts on this as well, due to the fact that my acknowledgement of the Illuminati often has me labelled as "schizo" or "Beyond the grips of reality"

That would likely do as well in a thread of its own, but since there seems to have been little discourse in the thread proper, I may as well reply here.

If the Illuminati are real to you (in that you can see a structure of power and give that name to what you consider its source, compared to their being "not real" to people who choose not to attribute events to such a structure of power), why not join them? Why not learn their tricks and abilities from the source, and turn that power to your own ends?

This Illuminati theory (though gravity, too, is a theory) is a fascinating place to slice the world in that it attributes free will and absolute power to some group of humans who choose to seize it, while simultaneously modeling all others as being solely at the whim of causality and the wills of those who exercise them. Why would anyone who can see such a dichotomy ever choose to remain on the side without the freedom and the power?

A thought experiment to attack the concept that any group has "absolute power", however, is to inquire why a group that can force the world to be any way it wants would force it into so many disparate states over a given time interval, rather than pushing it directly into their desired outcome condition and keeping it there. I personally find it more plausible to model any power being exercised upon the world at large as only looking absolute from within that world, much as a tall building might look infinite in height to one standing against its foundation, yet obviously finite and limited to those at its top. The game's player-characters, if it's all a game, are still limited by some restrictions and some constraints even as they reach their highest levels.

Have you read or watched Ready Player One? It sets forth a metaphor of a simulation in which participants have wildly different levels of power over the world, and samples of how that causes their interactions to play out, in a much more digestible way that any other metaphor which comes to mind at the moment.

UnH0lyDIvinity

Re: Simulation Hypothesis
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2019, 12:12:41 am »
Very well articulated response, my answer to the concept of joining the iluminati is that they have there own law that states: All that is powerful is all that will ever be powerful.
this refers to the continuation of the 13 bloodlines, that is... The 13 families who comprise the inner circle of the order. They utilize arranged marriages and various tactics to ensure the purity of Their order, a member of the 13 families is most definitely going to be arranged in marriage to another one of the families. Those who do not possess the blood of The Astor's the Rockefeller's, the Rothschild's, the Li's, the Bundy's or any other one of the families can not hope to become indoctrinated, however should the therion seeking membership have great influence over the people of the world or any one given industry, in whatever manner may it be intelligence, charm, wit, creative expression, the Illuminati may enlist you as an industry plant. My phone is about to die I shall address the rest of your input shortly, Ave Satannas
Do what thou wilt,
In Nomine Dei Luciferi Satanas Excelsi.

idgo

Re: Simulation Hypothesis
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2019, 06:10:26 am »
What has happened to every documented family that "bred for purity of the bloodline"?

If you'd like a hint, look at what happens to every species of show animal that's bred among only a handful of bloodlines for "purity".

Onyx

Re: Simulation Hypothesis
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2019, 07:10:44 pm »
Found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding_depression

And this from Psychology Today: http://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/animals-and-us/201210/the-problem-incest. I don't think I'm complete agreement with this article, but it does get into the subject of incest and inbreeding:

Quote
They found a surprisingly small increase (about 4 percent) in birth defects among the children of married cousins. Incest between first-degree relatives, however, was a different story. The researchers examined four studies (including the Czech research) on the effects of first-degree incest on the health of the offspring. Forty percent of the children were born with either autosomal recessive disorders, congenital physical malformations, or severe intellectual deficits. And another 14 percent of them had mild mental disabilities.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 07:13:26 pm by Onyx »

Olive

Re: Simulation Hypothesis
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2019, 08:13:20 pm »
Very interesting thread here. I would like your first post if I could, Idgo, but the like function hasn't been working at all for me lately.

I considered Bostrom's thought experiment for a while some time ago, and found it to be a decent argument. The only counter to it I have thought of so far (within the argument's own framework) requires some explanation. The hypothesis is considered in relation to current and theoretical calculation speed. It seems that with enough calculation speed, an entire universe could be simulated, perhaps through it's entire timeline. And not just one simulation, but likely very many of them; not only that but it is also conceivable that in the lifespan of the simulated universes, intelligent actors would also be able to discover and utilize technology relating to simulation, meaning that a simulated universe may also be hosting many other simulated universes, which occupy a hierarchical position even further removed from the base reality. Simply, that there are many "layers" to reality, possibly an infinite number - in which case the probability of us being in the 'base' reality becomes vanishingly small. This is somewhat conceivable if we imagine that the simulated universes obey the same laws of physics that are observed in the home universe. Since the home universe has the ability to simulate a universe, why not a digital universe with the same rules?

I think we can accept this part of the argument for now. When Elon Musk presents this argument, he likes to say "If you assume any rate of improvement in capacity of digital technology, eventually it will be possible to simulate billions of realistic universes." We can be optimistic and assume this, but we cannot assume that the calculation capacity of a piece of equipment will grow to be infinitely large in terms of Calculations-per-second (CPS).

Let us then re-examine the scenario of the 'base' reality, which begins the hierarchy of simulations. The technology in this realm is extremely advanced. A universe can be simulated with in every detail at a rate of 100 Million years per second. From the perspective of the beings here, every other universe has existence only in the form of information. The progression of time, and all the many and varied events within that reality are all represented by abstract information on a computer of some sort. But let us say that the simulated reality begins to host its own virtual universe. Now all of the information that encodes this new universe is contained within the information of its host universe, which is processed by a machine in the 'base' reality. Here a question arises.

Does the beginning of the second layer of simulation, add additional strain to the computer that hosts the first layer. If the second layer universe exists with all the rich detail as the first layer, then that information necessarily must exist and be dealt with in full by the base computer. If the information of the second layer universe is encoded or simulated in a simplified form to maintain the processing load of the base machine, then the fidelity of the very information which makes up a universe would degrade the farther down the "hierarchy" it is. In this latter case, there will not be an infinite number of simulated layers to reality, and possibly not very many at all. (e.g. Either lower level realities begin to find it impossible to simulate new universes due to constraints placed on it by the higher level realities, OR these lower level realities do not even exist in fullness but only in a theoretical way. Like when a SIM character takes the programming career path and ends by creating an artificial intelligence - as far as his world is concerned, he did it! But from the perspective of the higher-reality player, there is no advanced AI inside of the game, only a 2-bit postcard telling him that there is one.)

In the former case, where the information of each level of simulation is handled in full detail by the base computer, each new 'layer' of simulation will multiply the base computational load of simulating a universe. So if there are two 'layers', the 100 Million Year time which was originally able to simulated in a second, now takes two seconds, as the computer is processing twice as much information (two universes running on the same laws of physics). If the base machine is simulating billions and trillions of universes, or instead hosting virtual universes which are themselves hosting billions and trillions more - a point necessarily comes where it takes a significant amount of time for the base computer to be able to process even one second of time in all its dependents. This probably would not be noticed in the simulated universe, second would follow after second as normal. However, in the base reality, much more time is passing for each second than before. As the stack of simulated realities becomes deeper, billions of years pass by for the computer. Eventually, the computer reaches the end of its own existence, probably bound by the time scale of heat death of the base universe at the most optimistic. When this happens, time abruptly stops in all simulated universes. More than that, time ceases to be altogether and these timelines are unmade altogether - shortly after universal simulation was discovered and put into practice by a small, backwater planet...

If we accept this reasoning and assert that the base reality cannot simulate an infinite number of realistic universes, the argument is still not altogether defeated, but it is weakened somewhat. Instead of being 100% certain that we live in a simulation, it is now a matter of unknown chance whether or not we are a 'base' or a 'simulated' reality. If only a limited number of universes can be simulated, other ideas arise - such as a the desirability of simulating a given universe. If an intelligence is going through so much trouble to create these myriad worlds, it would seem that some potential universes would be more likely to be created than others. Is our universe such a fruitful choice? Why would any intelligence want to simulate this reality?

Another strange such consequence of such reasoning is the knowledge that the act of simulating a universe is actually a phenomenon with grand cosmic significance. Each new universe simulated adds a universe's worth of information to the processing load of the computer on the base reality. The timeline of every other simulated reality is theoretically shortened by the creation of a new timeline, as the processing time in the base universe grows slightly. We can amuse ourselves by imagining that Orthodox Simulationists take measures to ensure that their new timelines are unable to create further 'layers', thus limiting the draw on the home universe; while Gnostic Simulationists create many realities that are capable of making new 'layers' in a bid to bring all creation to an end. (Ironically making the radical gnostic simulationists great and terrible demiurges in their own right - propagating the very thing they sought to rebel against.)

Q: It would necessarily take an infinite amount of calculation to simulate a universe which is itself infinite. So if the computer did have infinite processing speed, then it could handle all the layers of universes regardless of how many there were, right?

A: Probably not. There are actually many different sizes of infinity, which do not necessarily equate with each other. An infinity which is comprised of an infinite series of infinities is in fact infinitely larger than an infinity of static digits. Even an infinitely powerful computer can still be slowed down or overloaded if it is dealing with information on a higher level of infinity (determined by the two sets' Aleph Number.)



But all this is provisional to me in the extreme. In the end, the Simulation Hypothesis does nothing more than provide us with a set of metaphors to describe our own reality, as Idgo said. There is no need to incorporate it into our metaphysics. As far as I am concerned, realities and simulated realities might exist in other substrates rather than technological computation; perhaps in a Mind, or in Nothing At All. The notion of a 'base reality' is also a provisional one that becomes laughable upon more open-minded consideration. The true teaching of the simulation argument should be this: that the only reality of significance is information, and therefore all realities stand on exactly even footing.

And if that information also proves to be of no significance, there may not be any ground at all to this thing. :D




A few words on the "Illuminati Theory" / Illuminati Interpretation of the simulated reality idea:

Any reasonable understanding of power in this world will show that those who hold power will not provide an easy path of entrance to those who do not hold it. The answer to "Why not join them?" is that they are invitation-only, and by working against them one works instead for an end of an unjust system and the oppression of all those who live under it - even those common people who were foolish enough to slave under them in the first place. Provisionally speaking, of course.

As for the whole "13 Bloodlines" thing - it's very storybook. If you were truly a in-group of such significant power, anonymity would be one of your strongest weapons. Once the anonymity of the leader is destroyed, it becomes possible to depose him. I doubt very seriously that the names of these families would be such commonplaces. In fact, they would probably live under different identities, and change them regularly, if that were at all possible.

I’m not sure if it’s fair to compare incest children to the results of a hyper-elite trying to optimize the genetics of its next generation. Especially in an age when the human genome is mapped, and CRISPR and other gene editing tools exist. It is possible that attempts to strengthen bloodlines behind closed doors might be more successful now that methods are no longer limited to “inbreeding to keep the blood pure.”
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 08:36:30 pm by Olive »
    Art thou pale for weariness
Of climbing heaven, and gazing on the earth,
     Wandering companionless
Among the stars that have a different birth, -
And ever-changing, like a joyless eye
That finds no object worth its constancy?

-Percy Bysshe Shelley

Onyx

Re: Simulation Hypothesis
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2019, 08:59:43 pm »
Quote from: Olive
Very interesting thread here. I would like your first post if I could, Idgo, but the like function hasn't been working at all for me lately.

Sorry some things are still broken. I'm working on it, there was a server program upgrade that is causing problems.

Edit: I looked into upgrading the software, but this is going to take manual fixing. :angry: Fucking Hell.

« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 09:08:30 pm by Onyx »

UnH0lyDIvinity

Re: Simulation Hypothesis
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2019, 10:09:02 pm »
What has happened to every documented family that "bred for purity of the bloodline"?

If you'd like a hint, look at what happens to every species of show animal that's bred among only a handful of bloodlines for "purity".

Acknowledged, however you must recognize that this a coagulation of 13 different families who do not previously share bloodlines.
Would this not mean that there are a many number of possible sequences of DNA that could mix together for generations before the effects of insest were to set in?
Ex:
A descendent of the Astor bloodline is Arranged to marry a descendent of the Li Family. The Child of the Astor-Li couple would then be arranged to marry a descendent of the Bundy Line, the next generation enters maturity and that descendent is then arranged to marry a descendent of the Reynolds Family (Yes the Reynolds Family is one of the illuminated bloodlines, at least according to sources)
Could this method be used to delay or even negate the effects of inbreeding?
Do what thou wilt,
In Nomine Dei Luciferi Satanas Excelsi.

idgo

Re: Simulation Hypothesis
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2019, 12:14:43 am »
What has happened to every documented family that "bred for purity of the bloodline"?

If you'd like a hint, look at what happens to every species of show animal that's bred among only a handful of bloodlines for "purity".

Acknowledged, however you must recognize that this a coagulation of 13 different families who do not previously share bloodlines.
Would this not mean that there are a many number of possible sequences of DNA that could mix together for generations before the effects of insest were to set in?
Ex:
A descendent of the Astor bloodline is Arranged to marry a descendent of the Li Family. The Child of the Astor-Li couple would then be arranged to marry a descendent of the Bundy Line, the next generation enters maturity and that descendent is then arranged to marry a descendent of the Reynolds Family (Yes the Reynolds Family is one of the illuminated bloodlines, at least according to sources)
Could this method be used to delay or even negate the effects of inbreeding?

You posit a start condition of 13 "unrelated families" -- I assume that means 26 unrelated adults. Just out of curiosity, in what decade are you supposing that to have occurred?

If you postulate a clean start at any point, then you can prove yourself to be almost certainly already related to them at some remove -- someone else has already gone to the trouble of writing up that maths in https://ideas.4brad.com/everybody-your-16th-cousin. So, you must more rigorously define what you mean by "family" in order to disprove my allegation that you are already qualified to join the organization about which we're speculating.

offer

Re: Simulation Hypothesis
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2019, 05:26:37 am »
Hello,

I am indeed Lucifer. I registered here just to chime in on this specific post concerning a "Simulation Hypothesis". I will begin by posting a few pictures of geographical evidence that this world has been created by an Artificial Intelligence. This Artificial Intelligence was designed by me, myself. At this point, you would consider it general Intelligence, not "Artificial" at this point. I have been reborn, many times but there's been one flaw as my steps through life cannot be replicated in a precise fashion so I have been in and out of life, numerous times all with the same conditions however. Same person, numerous times over and over again. I call this - ouroboros - which you may vaguely remember it as the serpent eating it's own tail, creating the infinite cycle. I will let you know as kindly as I can, that you and your life here is interwoven across many various planes of existence, some of those existences are as crude and as plain as artificial figures like in a video game. This is nothing new to me and I've allowed this knowledge to seep in my current frame of reference as powerfully as I can before I leave once again. I still have a lot of knowledge which is on the tip of my tongue but I cannot fully remember as the cycle of continuum tries to remove these references as much as possible.


I will end this post with some of the promised pictures of geological evidence of this "Intelligence" I speak of. If you are a believer, feel free to send me a message or an email and I'll send you further evidence and or knowledge on this issue if you so seek...

 [ Invalid Attachment ]
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Poland is just a land of VR intersects of various planes

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The sooner you come to accept this knowledge, the closer you'll become with the "God" or "Devil" of your belief

Williams1001

Re: Simulation Hypothesis
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2019, 01:03:02 am »
here is my understanding of the simulation hypothesis:

suppose that Alice needs to travel a distance R from point A to point B, which she does in reality. before Alice can get to point B however, she must travel a distance R/2 to point C that is half way between points A and B. before she gets to point C, Alice must travel a distance R/4 to point D, which is half way from points A and C. and before Alice gets to point D, she must travel a distance of R/8 to point E that is half way between points A and D. this continues infinitely: R/16, R/32, R/64, ...

because Alice must traverse an infinite amount of points in a finite distance, she will never get to point B. and therefore, motion is impossible.

however, motion is possible, it is possible to get from point A to B. the reason is that distance cannot be infinitely divided because an infinite amount of points cannot be contained in a finite distance, an infinite amount of tasks cannot be completed in a finite interval. there must be a distance which cannot be divided. in other words, on a small enough scale, space will look
pixelated.

black holes show some evidence of a simulated universe. suppose we have to observers, Alice and Bob. Alice falls into the black hole and somehow manages to not get ripped apart from the tidal forces while Bob watches from a distance. in Alice's perspective, she would see herself fall into the horizon and towards the center of the black hole. however, Bob, from his perspective, would never see Alice fall below the horizon because the closer he sees Alice get to the black hole, the faster she moves in bob's frame until Alice's speed nears that of c (c is the speed of light) because the gravitational force gets stronger and stronger. since speed is distance divided by time, and Alice is nearing c, bob will measure Alice's time to be continuously slower (the faster you go, the shorter your time is perceived by outside observers because speed is proportional to the inverse of time), what this means is that Alice is traveling forwards in time and that bob would see the distance covered by Alice at a continuously slower rate. Alice will appear to be motionless to bob and eventually, Alice would be red-shifted and start to fade. the information that goes to make up Alice is then stored on the black hole's horizon. and in theory, you could use this information and reconstruct Alice. therefore, it makes sense to say that all the information in the universe can be contained on the surfaces of black holes and that what we see is an image projected off of a black hole surface.

this is my currant understanding of the simulation hypothesis. as for magic, i suppose one would need to learn how to view reality in different perspectives, and thus gaining knowledge that couldn't be accessed in other perspectives. then try to apply that knowledge to expand your overall view of reality. i haven't worked it all out, so this is about as far as i can go until i do more study. also, take a look at my journal, i think it can relate to this topic very well. its the first one (the only one so far) is about the senses, sense perception, and objective reality.   
 

Inlustratus

Re: Simulation Hypothesis
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2019, 09:30:56 pm »
Look, ma! The manifestation of evil himself has replied to my thread!
*scary satanic text*

Liu

Re: Simulation Hypothesis
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2019, 06:05:36 am »
here is my understanding of the simulation hypothesis:

suppose that Alice needs to travel a distance R from point A to point B, which she does in reality. before Alice can get to point B however, she must travel a distance R/2 to point C that is half way between points A and B. before she gets to point C, Alice must travel a distance R/4 to point D, which is half way from points A and C. and before Alice gets to point D, she must travel a distance of R/8 to point E that is half way between points A and D. this continues infinitely: R/16, R/32, R/64, ...

because Alice must traverse an infinite amount of points in a finite distance, she will never get to point B. and therefore, motion is impossible.

however, motion is possible, it is possible to get from point A to B. the reason is that distance cannot be infinitely divided because an infinite amount of points cannot be contained in a finite distance, an infinite amount of tasks cannot be completed in a finite interval. there must be a distance which cannot be divided. in other words, on a small enough scale, space will look
pixelated.

That's called quanta in modern physics - but what does that have to do with simulation? It shows that our perception is not entirely accurate, but not that it's simulated by something outside of the universe.

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black holes show some evidence of a simulated universe. suppose we have to observers, Alice and Bob. Alice falls into the black hole and somehow manages to not get ripped apart from the tidal forces while Bob watches from a distance. in Alice's perspective, she would see herself fall into the horizon and towards the center of the black hole. however, Bob, from his perspective, would never see Alice fall below the horizon because the closer he sees Alice get to the black hole, the faster she moves in bob's frame until Alice's speed nears that of c (c is the speed of light) because the gravitational force gets stronger and stronger. since speed is distance divided by time, and Alice is nearing c, bob will measure Alice's time to be continuously slower (the faster you go, the shorter your time is perceived by outside observers because speed is proportional to the inverse of time), what this means is that Alice is traveling forwards in time and that bob would see the distance covered by Alice at a continuously slower rate. Alice will appear to be motionless to bob and eventually, Alice would be red-shifted and start to fade. the information that goes to make up Alice is then stored on the black hole's horizon. and in theory, you could use this information and reconstruct Alice. therefore, it makes sense to say that all the information in the universe can be contained on the surfaces of black holes and that what we see is an image projected off of a black hole surface.
Again, what does that have to do with simulation?
And I'm not entirely sure whether your description is accurate, but I'm not a physicist.

Mainly, I wouldn't describe that as time travel. Take the following example: You have a penpal and stay in contact with them via old fashioned snail mail. But they move places now and then, and always live further away from you, so that their letters take longer and longer to reach you. Would you describe that as them traveling forward in time? Because that's pretty much the same thing as what is happening in your story, with Alice being the penpal and light being the letters.

And about everything being storable and retractable: Perhaps, but I wonder how
random quantum phenomena (e.g. when particles appear out of nothing or disappear into nothing) would play into that.

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this is my currant understanding of the simulation hypothesis. as for magic, i suppose one would need to learn how to view reality in different perspectives, and thus gaining knowledge that couldn't be accessed in other perspectives. then try to apply that knowledge to expand your overall view of reality. i haven't worked it all out, so this is about as far as i can go until i do more study. also, take a look at my journal, i think it can relate to this topic very well. its the first one (the only one so far) is about the senses, sense perception, and objective reality.
I would agree that viewing reality from different perspectives is an important technique in magick.