Author Topic: Animal sacrifice  (Read 402 times)

Etu Malku

Re: Animal sacrifice
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2019, 11:55:47 am »
Regarding the sacrifice aspect. I don't believe in entities outside of myself, therefore I have no need to offer myself something in return for something I already have.
IAMTHATIAMNOT

crossfire

Re: Animal sacrifice
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2019, 02:54:58 pm »
On the other (left) hand, being that I consider myself to be an apex predator, I will eat everything and anything I desire.
Regarding the sacrifice aspect. I don't believe in entities outside of myself, therefore I have no need to offer myself something in return for something I already have.
How do you reconcile these two statements?  Do you prey on yourself?  (My guess it would have to do with how you define "entities.")
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

Etu Malku

Re: Animal sacrifice
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2019, 03:27:38 pm »
On the other (left) hand, being that I consider myself to be an apex predator, I will eat everything and anything I desire.
Regarding the sacrifice aspect. I don't believe in entities outside of myself, therefore I have no need to offer myself something in return for something I already have.
How do you reconcile these two statements?  Do you prey on yourself?  (My guess it would have to do with how you define "entities.")
Wut? LOL . . .

Apex Predator = eat/feed on whatever I want

"don't believe in entities outside of myself"
All gods, devils, demons & angel things are aspects of our unconscious mind.

"Do you prey on yourself?"
I gather you are confused with what I was talking about?
I addressed eating meat in one reply and addressed sacrificing to an entity in another reply. They really weren't meant to be connected.
IAMTHATIAMNOT

Liu

Re: Animal sacrifice
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2019, 04:04:41 pm »
Not sure where you got your info from but within the animal kingdom there are relatively few sentient animals.
Since your brought up this term sentient it might be helpful if you would provide a short definition of what you mean by it.

I'm not really a predator.  I'm more omnivorous than predatory.

False dichotomy. A predator is a creature which preys on others, regardless of what else it might eat. Bears and raccoons are omnivorous, but that doesn't give them any less enjoyment of eating your chickens or your cute little dog.
If ritual animal sacrifice is not predatory in nature, then what is it, then? 

"Here Master, I brought you a cute little creature.  Since I love you so much, I want to share the joy I have killing this creature in Our Sacred Space with you.  I also have this blood fetish that gives me great joy.  Let me also share this joy with you as I splatter blood all over Our Sacred Space."
D'awwww - if I'm ever going to sacrifice an animal, I'll see to it to make such the focus of my motivation.

Thus far I had assumed that the motivations behind animal sacrifice would be the following:

- belief that the entity one works with wants one to do that or that it's simply a necessity of the rite

- wanting to use it to trigger some kind of psychological reaction in oneself that is either beneficial for tapping into one's magical abilities, or that is beneficial for one's own development and/or psychological transformation

I hadn't even thought of doing that as an expression of one's actual desires, coupled with love for one's deity, even though I can quite relate to that idea. Thus far, whenever I read it being mentioned that a given rite necessitates such an act, it seemed to me like an unnecessary nuisance, or intended to cause psychological changes that I don't intend to experiment with at the moment (I once read a rite how to become a werewolf that included killing a cat - it seemed to be meant seriously).

I prefer to eat animals killed by myself or someone I trust, because I appreciate knowing it was done right. There's a somewhat ritualistic aspect to correctly processing an animal, in making sure that it doesn't suffer and that none of its parts are wasted. However, I experience this to be about nature and about the animal, whereas I'd describe a "sacrifice" as being focused on the person killing the animal or the subset of natural forces that the death is dedicated to.
I would first need to get a hunter's or butcher's license in order to do kill my own food.
I have been thinking of absolving the course to get a hunter's license - but currently that's not really feasible for me as I'm lacking the amount of free time necessary to attend that - one needs to take 120 hours or more of lessons for it here.


crossfire

Re: Animal sacrifice
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2019, 04:50:57 pm »
On the other (left) hand, being that I consider myself to be an apex predator, I will eat everything and anything I desire.
Regarding the sacrifice aspect. I don't believe in entities outside of myself, therefore I have no need to offer myself something in return for something I already have.
How do you reconcile these two statements?  Do you prey on yourself?  (My guess it would have to do with how you define "entities.")
Wut? LOL . . .

Apex Predator = eat/feed on whatever I want

"don't believe in entities outside of myself"
All gods, devils, demons & angel things are aspects of our unconscious mind.

"Do you prey on yourself?"
I gather you are confused with what I was talking about?
I addressed eating meat in one reply and addressed sacrificing to an entity in another reply. They really weren't meant to be connected.

Thank you for the clarification.  So it does have to do with your own definition of entities, then, with your definition of an entity being non-corporeal.  (The usual definition of an entity is something with a distinct and independent existence, which would make your statement "I don't believe in entities outside of myself" as embracing solipsism.)
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

Kapalika

Re: Animal sacrifice
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2019, 09:06:52 pm »
Not sure where you got your info from but within the animal kingdom there are relatively few sentient animals.

I can't tell if you are using the word sentient in a non-standard way, or if you really think animals are not aware and conscious.

Of course most animals can experience emotions and thoughts. Sure for most they are more basic or primitive compared to how abstract ours are but they still have subjective experiences and we can see this when they do something as simple as react to pain or seek comfort.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4494450/

There's a meta-study on it, if you are interested.

But more overtly... how can you interact with any animal from cats, dogs, birds, or any livestock and not see them act with intention?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 09:14:41 pm by Kapalika »
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Kapalika

Re: Animal sacrifice
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2019, 09:19:26 pm »
Also the status as humans as Apex Predators (in the scientific definition) is hotly debated given how diverse our diet is along with how we can easily become prey ourselves. Other than our bites and ability to long distance run, we are pretty weak in terms of raw physical ability. The former is a left over from our pre-human ancestors and probably tied to our omnivore nature. The latter has shown to likely be from when early humans would outrun prey until they collapsed of exhaustion and we killed it there. Some tribes in Africa still hunt like this IIRC. Most animals can't run for nearly as long as humans.
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Etu Malku

Re: Animal sacrifice
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2019, 01:25:37 am »
On the other (left) hand, being that I consider myself to be an apex predator, I will eat everything and anything I desire.
Regarding the sacrifice aspect. I don't believe in entities outside of myself, therefore I have no need to offer myself something in return for something I already have.
How do you reconcile these two statements?  Do you prey on yourself?  (My guess it would have to do with how you define "entities.")
Wut? LOL . . .

Apex Predator = eat/feed on whatever I want

"don't believe in entities outside of myself"
All gods, devils, demons & angel things are aspects of our unconscious mind.

"Do you prey on yourself?"
I gather you are confused with what I was talking about?
I addressed eating meat in one reply and addressed sacrificing to an entity in another reply. They really weren't meant to be connected.

Thank you for the clarification.  So it does have to do with your own definition of entities, then, with your definition of an entity being non-corporeal.  (The usual definition of an entity is something with a distinct and independent existence, which would make your statement "I don't believe in entities outside of myself" as embracing solipsism.)
I truly hope you are clarifying this for others . . .otherwise . . . a DOUBLE WUT ;)
IAMTHATIAMNOT

Olive

Re: Animal sacrifice
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2019, 10:27:44 pm »
Funny you should make the comparison of Vegetarianism and Animal Sacrifice in the OP, Kapalika. There’s a vegan magician I work with, and I’ve seen her cheat on her diet once - ordering a meat dish and consuming it, calling it an animal sacrifice. (Not a common thing for her, she’s been strict vegan for many years now.)

Personally, I don’t use animal sacrifice in my magical workings. I feel that would be profaning my ritual space to the max. Especially if the animal is tortured before being killed. I respect the role that animal sacrifice played in pre-modern societies (charity, food distribution, community building), but that stuff isn’t super relevant as far as my personal practice goes. I’ve watched several traditional animal sacrifices (you can find videos on YouTube and elsewhere), and they are a bit much for my modern western sensibilities. We’re not really used to seeing that kind of brutality in places where meat comes in plastic sanitized packages...

I’ve been shown how to do animal sacrifice and how it works in visions before, but again, that kind of energy is not really in alignment with what I’m trying to accomplish.

I do eat meat from time to time. It’s less than I used to, and I opt for seafood when possible, but I’m definitely far from innocent in that regard. I actually regard factory farming as far more evil than any traditional animal sacrifice, and I’m not proud to be a part of it. But I’ve not fully divested myself from that wicked element of western life.

From a gnostic perspective, the processes of the world contain evil at almost every level. There’s hardly any escaping it. Yes, I’m interested in purifying myself, but right now I’m focusing on the things that are more immediately relevant, like my own emotional states, the contents and obsessions of my mind, and my physical health. Maybe my vegan friend will help me develop the proper skills and tastes to go meat free in the future.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 10:32:06 pm by Olive »
    Art thou pale for weariness
Of climbing heaven, and gazing on the earth,
     Wandering companionless
Among the stars that have a different birth, -
And ever-changing, like a joyless eye
That finds no object worth its constancy?

-Percy Bysshe Shelley