Author Topic: Western Left Hand Path  (Read 830 times)

Etu Malku

Western Left Hand Path
« on: March 19, 2019, 10:39:45 pm »
The term Western Left Hand Path as the Herald of the Dawn along with several other occult organizations understand it, has evolved over time into many different paths, including Satanism, Luciferianism, Setianism, Ahrimanism, Mercurænism, and other similar paths. They all share certain common traits – apathy towards cultural norms/values, high respect for subjective experience, and perhaps most importantly, a focus on the individual Self (as something isolate and unnatural from the objective universe). These tenets are actualized through various magico-spiritual and inner antinomian practices, Individuation, Majiq, Ritual and various self-disciplines (meditation, yoga, martial arts etc.).
IAMTHATIAMNOT

Liu

Re: Western Left Hand Path
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2019, 05:18:16 pm »
I take this thread as an invitation for me to ask questions that were left unclear to me from your post in the politics thread.

In the introductory post here you only refer to the Western Left Hand Path.
If I recall correctly one of our previous discussions, by your Western and Eastern distinction you are referring to a dichotomy relevant for your order, so that not necessarily every western LHPer would be on the Western LHP, and the same for the eastern/Eastern ones.
If that is the case, then that may be the sole reason for our disagreements.

There are certainly western LHPers that fit your definition above.
And the exceptions thereof would be western LHPers, but not Western LHPers (e.g. gnostic Satanists not fitting by wanting to merge with the chaos/all, and pantheists like me, and also chaos magicians in a way, not considering the subjective experience to be separable from the objective universe).

However, what you said about the goals of the Eastern LHPers (dissolving the Self into the All), I would like to be shown some examples for this as it is not my impression that this would be typical for the eastern LHP.

Xepera-maSet

  • Guest
Re: Western Left Hand Path
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2019, 06:17:02 pm »
I dug a bit deeper into traits in my book:

apathy towards  cultural  norms  & values,  a high  respect  for  subjective  experience,  an  avoidance  of  dogma,  a focus  on  the  individual  Self,  a  use  of Pragmatism,  an  investment  in modern  objective  knowledge,  Skepticism,  and  Self-deification


Etu Malku

Re: Western Left Hand Path
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2019, 09:21:49 pm »
In the introductory post here you only refer to the Western Left Hand Path.
If I recall correctly one of our previous discussions, by your Western and Eastern distinction you are referring to a dichotomy relevant for your order, so that not necessarily every western LHPer would be on the Western LHP, and the same for the eastern/Eastern ones.
If that is the case, then that may be the sole reason for our disagreements.
I only refer to the WLHP as understood by the Herald of the Dawn and Mercurænism now because I am through comparing and defining any other LHP label/practices.

Quote
There are certainly western LHPers that fit your definition above.
And the exceptions thereof would be western LHPers, but not Western LHPers (e.g. gnostic Satanists not fitting by wanting to merge with the chaos/all, and pantheists like me, and also chaos magicians in a way, not considering the subjective experience to be separable from the objective universe).
I'm not clear on this statement.

Quote
However, what you said about the goals of the Eastern LHPers (dissolving the Self into the All), I would like to be shown some examples for this as it is not my impression that this would be typical for the eastern LHP.
Here are several quotes from prominent Shaivites (Shaivism only for example)

"In Shaivism in general, Shiva is the name for the absolute or transcendental consciousness"

"The Kashmir Shaivite is not so much concerned with worshiping a personal God as he is with attaining the transcendental state of Siva consciousness."

"Sadhana leads to the assimilation of the object (world) in the subject (I) until the Self (Shiva) stands revealed as one with the universe."

"The goal-liberation-is sustained recognition (pratyabhijna) of one's true Self as nothing but Shiva"

"The individual is a mini Shiva, who, when he recognizes his true self, becomes one with the universal consciousness"

"The attainment of Shivatva may be understood as complete merger in Shiva"

Sources were:
Subhash Kak
Dr. B.N. Kalla
R. K. Sapru
Dr. C. L. Raina
Prof. M. L. Kokiloo
Dr. R. K. Kaw
Shri Jankinath Kaul 'Kamal'
IAMTHATIAMNOT

Liu

Re: Western Left Hand Path
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2019, 06:00:49 am »
Quote
Quote
However, what you said about the goals of the Eastern LHPers (dissolving the Self into the All), I would like to be shown some examples for this as it is not my impression that this would be typical for the eastern LHP.
Here are several quotes from prominent Shaivites (Shaivism only for example)

"In Shaivism in general, Shiva is the name for the absolute or transcendental consciousness"

"The Kashmir Shaivite is not so much concerned with worshiping a personal God as he is with attaining the transcendental state of Siva consciousness."

"Sadhana leads to the assimilation of the object (world) in the subject (I) until the Self (Shiva) stands revealed as one with the universe."

"The goal-liberation-is sustained recognition (pratyabhijna) of one's true Self as nothing but Shiva"

"The individual is a mini Shiva, who, when he recognizes his true self, becomes one with the universal consciousness"

"The attainment of Shivatva may be understood as complete merger in Shiva"

Sources were:
Subhash Kak
Dr. B.N. Kalla
R. K. Sapru
Dr. C. L. Raina
Prof. M. L. Kokiloo
Dr. R. K. Kaw
Shri Jankinath Kaul 'Kamal'

Thanks! I would understand most of these quotes not so much as being about merging with the divine as rather realizing one is and always has been a manifestion of it.
Which is also what is common in the western kinds of the LHP I mentioned not fitting your definition of the WLHP.

And I don't know for sure whether that also applies to the kinds of Shaivism you quoted, so this is only about the western LHP or perhaps only my own form thereof:
It seems a widespread belief among LHPers that their patron deity is both a principle and those parts of oneself corresponding to that principle, and that individuality, subjectivity and things like that are central aspects of that principle.
So when acknowledging oneself as a manifestation of that deity, that does not mean giving up anything that is truly part of oneself, but rather the opposite.

Etu Malku

Re: Western Left Hand Path
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2019, 09:53:33 am »
Quote
Quote
However, what you said about the goals of the Eastern LHPers (dissolving the Self into the All), I would like to be shown some examples for this as it is not my impression that this would be typical for the eastern LHP.
Here are several quotes from prominent Shaivites (Shaivism only for example)

"In Shaivism in general, Shiva is the name for the absolute or transcendental consciousness"

"The Kashmir Shaivite is not so much concerned with worshiping a personal God as he is with attaining the transcendental state of Siva consciousness."

"Sadhana leads to the assimilation of the object (world) in the subject (I) until the Self (Shiva) stands revealed as one with the universe."

"The goal-liberation-is sustained recognition (pratyabhijna) of one's true Self as nothing but Shiva"

"The individual is a mini Shiva, who, when he recognizes his true self, becomes one with the universal consciousness"

"The attainment of Shivatva may be understood as complete merger in Shiva"

Sources were:
Subhash Kak
Dr. B.N. Kalla
R. K. Sapru
Dr. C. L. Raina
Prof. M. L. Kokiloo
Dr. R. K. Kaw
Shri Jankinath Kaul 'Kamal'

Thanks! I would understand most of these quotes not so much as being about merging with the divine as rather realizing one is and always has been a manifestion of it.
Which is also what is common in the western kinds of the LHP I mentioned not fitting your definition of the WLHP.

And I don't know for sure whether that also applies to the kinds of Shaivism you quoted, so this is only about the western LHP or perhaps only my own form thereof:
It seems a widespread belief among LHPers that their patron deity is both a principle and those parts of oneself corresponding to that principle, and that individuality, subjectivity and things like that are central aspects of that principle.
So when acknowledging oneself as a manifestation of that deity, that does not mean giving up anything that is truly part of oneself, but rather the opposite.
Whether merging with are realizing one has always been a manifestation of 'the divine', neither principle conforms with our Path.

"Which is also what is common in the western kinds of the LHP I mentioned not fitting your definition of the WLHP."

Which kinds LHP are you referring to?
Again which LHP's have a 'patron deity'? I guess you are referring to the eastern ones?
Here is a short Statement we like to use when explaining ourselves:

I am an Itheist
I don’t believe in any gods
I believe in the One inside
I will not surrender my Ego
Unless it is to My Self
You, is what others see
Me, is what I think I am
I, is what I truly am
I am a god in the making
I am the only god I will ever know
“I” am an Itheist
IAMTHATIAMNOT

Xepera-maSet

  • Guest
Re: Western Left Hand Path
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2019, 02:37:29 pm »
I don't know about the Divine thing. Not merging into the "divine" or "godly" is important to the LHP, but that doesn't mean we are not part of it.

Liu

Re: Western Left Hand Path
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2019, 05:33:26 pm »


"Which is also what is common in the western kinds of the LHP I mentioned not fitting your definition of the WLHP."

Which kinds LHP are you referring to?
Again which LHP's have a 'patron deity'? I guess you are referring to the eastern ones?
I'm referring to Satanism, mainly, but also similar paths, like Ahrimanism, Demonolatry, ...
Not all use that same terminology, though.

Here is a short Statement we like to use when explaining ourselves:

I am an Itheist
I don’t believe in any gods
I believe in the One inside
I will not surrender my Ego
Unless it is to My Self
You, is what others see
Me, is what I think I am
I, is what I truly am
I am a god in the making
I am the only god I will ever know
“I” am an Itheist
To much of this I would fully subscribe. Just, I would consider the Self a manifestation of a general principal -independent of whether that principal is an actual deity or just a concept.

Xepera-maSet

  • Guest
Re: Western Left Hand Path
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2019, 06:53:08 pm »
I like Kastrup's comparison to Disassociative Identity Disorder. Set is consciousness, and we are alternates. Yet like in DID the alternates can coexist, become their own unique thing, even if trapped in a human body.

Etu Malku

Re: Western Left Hand Path
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2019, 11:40:14 pm »
Here is where the 'faith' and possible dogma comes in our Order.
Simply put; We believe that there exists a detached / separate / isolate identity / non-dual Self which is our perfected and higher Self. This Self communicates to us through the Symbology of various Daemonic structures. These structures can be fused into one egregore which acts as one's personal Logos between self & Self. In essence, there is not 'One' identity to which we all Become One with, but rather there are as many identities/gods, as there are souls and each of us, are 'fallen' Lucifers physically incarnate with the possibility of Becoming our Divine Self.
IAMTHATIAMNOT

crossfire

Re: Western Left Hand Path
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2019, 10:08:50 am »
The term Western Left Hand Path as the Herald of the Dawn along with several other occult organizations understand it, has evolved over time into many different paths, including Satanism, Luciferianism, Setianism, Ahrimanism, Mercurænism, and other similar paths. They all share certain common traits – apathy towards cultural norms/values, high respect for subjective experience, and perhaps most importantly, a focus on the individual Self (as something isolate and unnatural from the objective universe). These tenets are actualized through various magico-spiritual and inner antinomian practices, Individuation, Majiq, Ritual and various self-disciplines (meditation, yoga, martial arts etc.).
I'm not really sure whether "apathy towards cultural norms/values" jives with antinomianism, one of the two traits (along with autotheism) Dr Flowers uses to define LHP.  I certainly wouldn't be apathetic towards such cultural traits or norms as burning witches, honor killings, or the expectation for a widow to throw herself on her dead husband's funeral pyre.  Fuck that crap--I'd be actively working to change that, or at the very least help those affected by it to escape. 

Your mileage may vary.
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

Etu Malku

Re: Western Left Hand Path
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2019, 10:19:18 am »
The term Western Left Hand Path as the Herald of the Dawn along with several other occult organizations understand it, has evolved over time into many different paths, including Satanism, Luciferianism, Setianism, Ahrimanism, Mercurænism, and other similar paths. They all share certain common traits – apathy towards cultural norms/values, high respect for subjective experience, and perhaps most importantly, a focus on the individual Self (as something isolate and unnatural from the objective universe). These tenets are actualized through various magico-spiritual and inner antinomian practices, Individuation, Majiq, Ritual and various self-disciplines (meditation, yoga, martial arts etc.).
I'm not really sure whether "apathy towards cultural norms/values" jives with antinomianism, one of the two traits (along with autotheism) Dr Flowers uses to define LHP.  I certainly wouldn't be apathetic towards such cultural traits or norms as burning witches, honor killings, or the expectation for a widow to throw herself on her dead husband's funeral pyre.  Fuck that crap--I'd be actively working to change that, or at the very least help those affected by it to escape. 

Your mileage may vary.
The 'antinomian' aspect is about the adversary within. IMO when one is confronting outside principles then one is practicing heterodoxy, which in turn enables those principles to exist.

e.g. I am apathetic to witch burnings simply because I don't believe in witches nor the Christian faith which enabled those burnings.
IAMTHATIAMNOT

crossfire

Re: Western Left Hand Path
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2019, 10:58:25 am »
The 'antinomian' aspect is about the adversary within. IMO when one is confronting outside principles then one is practicing heterodoxy, which in turn enables those principles to exist.
Isn't antinomianism "going against the grain?"

Quote
e.g. I am apathetic to witch burnings simply because I don't believe in witches nor the Christian faith which enabled those burnings.

How apathetic would you be if they carried you or one of your loved ones off to be burned?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 11:05:21 am by crossfire »
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

Etu Malku

Re: Western Left Hand Path
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2019, 02:29:19 pm »
The 'antinomian' aspect is about the adversary within. IMO when one is confronting outside principles then one is practicing heterodoxy, which in turn enables those principles to exist.
Isn't antinomianism "going against the grain?"

Quote
e.g. I am apathetic to witch burnings simply because I don't believe in witches nor the Christian faith which enabled those burnings.

How apathetic would you be if they carried you or one of your loved ones off to be burned?

I try my best to redefine antinomianism in a new light, one that places it at our inner war with our shadow self and in lieu of individuating one's self. Whereas Heterodoxy seems to be firmly attached to the nomos (to use your word) of religion and culture.

I seem to be failing . . . however;

(from Thomas Karlsson's talk given at Flambeau Noir in Ottawa April 2017)
Antinomianism, in the spiritual and philosophical meaning:
a) Defining the utmost realities through negations and
b) going against the grain, to be aware of unconscious patterns
c) building a higher moral through breaking free from simple social morality defined by the majority (a concept actually close to ethical idealism).
____________________________________________________________

Antinomianism as a praxis of spiritual dissent manifests as both a methodology and a practicum to personal spiritual freedom. Antinomianism represents a historical methodology and post-modern evolution of individualized thought that seeks freedom from the confines of cultural, social and genetic/memetic programming. The path of spiritual dissent has most often been documented and categorized as that of the Left Hand Path (LHP). The path of harmonious acceptance of man as he is and the giving over of self-responsibility to a higher force has most often been represented by the Right Hand Path (RHP).

I try my best to redefine antinomianism in a new light, one that places it at our inner war with our shadow self and in lieu of individuating one's self. Whereas Heterodoxy seems to be firmly attached to the nomos (to use your word) of religion and culture.

To practice heterodoxy is to accept these religious beliefs as something true and thus something to be at war with . . . I do not accept most religions, therefore, I have no use for heterodoxy.

IAMTHATIAMNOT

crossfire

Re: Western Left Hand Path
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2019, 05:37:09 pm »


I try my best to redefine antinomianism in a new light, one that places it at our inner war with our shadow self and in lieu of individuating one's self. Whereas Heterodoxy seems to be firmly attached to the nomos (to use your word) of religion and culture.

I seem to be failing . . . however;

(from Thomas Karlsson's talk given at Flambeau Noir in Ottawa April 2017)
Antinomianism, in the spiritual and philosophical meaning:
a) Defining the utmost realities through negations and
b) going against the grain, to be aware of unconscious patterns
c) building a higher moral through breaking free from simple social morality defined by the majority (a concept actually close to ethical idealism).
I practice this:
a) Apophatic (via negation) approach rather than cataphatic approach
b) I am often contrarian
c) I do work hard to try to bring the nomos out of the unconscious and into consciousness for examination.  Not only is this a needed element for the evolution of society, but it is also an excellent skill to prompt people to bring up other stuff from their unconscious mind and rationally examine it.
____________________________________________________________

Quote
Antinomianism as a praxis of spiritual dissent manifests as both a methodology and a practicum to personal spiritual freedom. Antinomianism represents a historical methodology and post-modern evolution of individualized thought that seeks freedom from the confines of cultural, social and genetic/memetic programming. The path of spiritual dissent has most often been documented and categorized as that of the Left Hand Path (LHP). The path of harmonious acceptance of man as he is and the giving over of self-responsibility to a higher force has most often been represented by the Right Hand Path (RHP).
If you are apathetic to your unconscious cultural programming, then how are you going to bring it into consciousness and examine it?  That's basically the same effect as RHP repression of ideas outside of the "norm."

Quote
I try my best to redefine antinomianism in a new light, one that places it at our inner war with our shadow self and in lieu of individuating one's self. Whereas Heterodoxy seems to be firmly attached to the nomos (to use your word) of religion and culture.
Well yes, stuff that is repressed by the nomos will be in your Shadow, and antinomianism will help bring the repressed stuff up into consciousness for examination.  The ego is "consuming" the Shadow.  Heterodoxy doesn't always involve the conscious, rational, examination part--the danger of heterodoxy is ego becoming consumed by the Shadow, instead of vice-versa.

Quote
To practice heterodoxy is to accept these religious beliefs as something true and thus something to be at war with . . . I do not accept most religions, therefore, I have no use for heterodoxy.
The thing is that there is both truth (wisdom) and falsehoods to be found in whatever nomos you are considering.  To dismiss it all as false is to throw away discernment and throw the baby out with the bathwater.


"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung