Comparing the Christian God, Hitler, and Satan

[Xepera maSet]

 

# God

 - Rules through fear

- Warmonger

- Mass murderer

- Limits free will

- Wants his followers to be a hivemind

- Has secret police force

- Tells lies about himself to prop himself up

- Has a chosen people and treats others as lesser

- Tortures the opposition for eternity

- Allows natural disasters

- Allows suffering

- Allows illness

- Allows poverty etc.

____________________________________________

# Hitler

- Rules through fear

- Warmonger

- Mass murderer

- Limits free will

- Wants his followers to be a hivemind

- Has secret police force

- Tells lies about himself to prop himself up

- Has a chosen people and treats others as lesser

- Tortures the opposition until death in the camps

- Cannot stop natural disasters and doesn't claim he can

- Cannot stop suffering and doesn't claim he can

- Cannot stop illness and doesn't claim he can

- Cannot stop poverty and doesn't claim he can

_____________________________________

# Satan

- Not a ruler

- Not involved in any wars

- Not a murderer

- Gave humans free will

- Desires and respects individuality

- Teaches self ownership and personal responsibility

- Honest about himself

- Cares for all people

- "You do you" regard for opposition

- Cannot stop natural disasters and doesn't claim he can

- Cannot stop suffering and doesn't claim he can

- Cannot stop illness and doesn't claim he can

- Cannot stop poverty and doesn't claim he can

______________________________________

This gives us some pretty damn clear results we can confirm through history and religious claims/beliefs. What it shows is that Satan is a rather clear cultural hero and good guy, that Hitler and other fascists are far more like God than Satan, and that God is the worst fascist of all! All obvious to those who look into the abrahamic  religions objectively, but hopefully it'll get through to some others.

[Inlustratus]

Oh my fucking god, you aren't actually doing this, are you?

[Beetle]

But Satan and the Christian God are the same deity.........literally synonymous the same thing.

[Inlustratus]

But Satan and the Christian God are the same deity.........literally synonymous the same thing.

oMg ArE yOu SaYiNg ThAt SaTaN = hItLer?!?!?!1?'!?!

[Kapalika]

Ya I didn't want to be the first to say anything but this topic is kind of stupid and I can't see it going anywhere good or productive. Normally when Hitler comes up and is compared that kills the discussion so this was dead before it started.

I mean, I don't think most of us are fans of the Christian god to start with so I'm not sure who your intended audience is... but this isn't even a good argument since it's invoking Godwin's Law.

But Satan and the Christian God are the same deity.........literally synonymous the same thing.

I have no words.

[Liu]

In German we have a term for comparing someone to Hitler or calling some a nazi: The "Nazikeule" (nazi-mace). Pretty much something you shouldn't do as it often means striking down the whole conversation.

Still, we're here to break traditions, aren't we? So perhaps we can still turn this into a fruitful discussion.

One of the problems I have with the details of the comparison is, it really depends on what you believe about the deities in question.
Many Christians certainly would tell you that they don't believe half of the attributes you ascribed to God, and would attribute quite a bunch of them to Satan.

From my pantheistic perspective stuff certainly also looks different than from your Setian perspective.

But Satan and the Christian God are the same deity.........literally synonymous the same thing.

Well, since I believe that all is Satan, of course also the Christian God is Satan - but I doubt this is what you had in mind.

Are you referring to the Jewish belief that Satan is merely YHVH's wrathful aspect? Yeah well then it would make sense in a way to claim them being the same deity - but I think Jews don't belief that the entity that Christians call Satan is the same entity they themselves call so, let alone the same entity that Satanists call so.

Or what was your line of reasoning? (If you had any )

[idgo]

Well, since I believe that all is Satan, of course also the Christian God is Satan - but I doubt this is what you had in mind.

This raises the question: How do Christians resolve the claims that their God is omnipresent, yet their Satan is separate from their God? Maybe whatever  "selective omniscience" explanation they'd use would shine some light on the present discussion.

[Liu]

Well, since I believe that all is Satan, of course also the Christian God is Satan - but I doubt this is what you had in mind.

This raises the question: How do Christians resolve the claims that their God is omnipresent, yet their Satan is separate from their God? Maybe whatever  "selective omniscience" explanation they'd use would shine some light on the present discussion.

Cognitive dissonance normally.
Lots of Christians nowadays also don't believe in Satan. Or they don't believe God is really omnipresent etc., or that whatever Satan does is part of God's plan, ... that should be the most common positions.

In Sunday school and in public school religion classes, the official position was that Satan is a metaphor - pretty much any part of the bible was a metaphor there - if I remember correctly.

I rarely have to do with Christians, though, let alone with actually religious ones, or if I do they keep it very much a secret. The last time I talked with a (probably) Christian in real life about religion and knew it was several years ago, fairly short, and it was her talking about why she doesn't like organized religion...

I suspect your American experiences on these matters are a bit different, though.

[Kapalika]

Well, since I believe that all is Satan, of course also the Christian God is Satan - but I doubt this is what you had in mind.

This raises the question: How do Christians resolve the claims that their God is omnipresent, yet their Satan is separate from their God? Maybe whatever  "selective omniscience" explanation they'd use would shine some light on the present discussion.

It means he's everywhere at once, not identical with everything. Christians believe in a very hard dualism.

[Xepera maSet]

Huh, where I pulled this from said something like "Hitler (as a stand in for all fascists). You can throw whoever you want in, YHWH is worse. Fascists, serial killers, rapists, child abusers ... YHWH is worse if he's anything at all like who he claims to be.

[Inlustratus]

Personally, I differentiate Christian god, as a specific god, and YHWH. I see YHWH as the act of creating of cosmos. YHWH is one single god. YHWH is an idea of all gods which act as the Demiurge. He is the god of religions whose goal is to become one with the divine, as opposed to breaking the shackles of cosmos and becoming a god on your own.

[Kapalika]

Personally, I differentiate Christian god, as a specific god, and YHWH. I see YHWH as the act of creating of cosmos. YHWH is one single god. YHWH is an idea of all gods which act as the Demiurge. He is the god of religions whose goal is to become one with the divine, as opposed to breaking the shackles of cosmos and becoming a god on your own.

That sounds kind of problematic, like from a theological standpoint and veers too much into misrepresenting some belief systems. Also wouldn't you need to become divine in some sense anyway to become a god? So they can't be mutually exclusive, and I in what context we are speaking of "Cosmos" as in my trying to understand acosmic and anticosmic stuff it really seems like "Cosmos" means something different to them than it does to me, as well as "Universe" and other terms. Like just a huge language barrier.


All that said, to equate Yahweh with all creator gods does introduce a ton of issues like I said. For example in Hinduism (I mention this as it's what I know) certain gods create and others destroy, but sometimes those are the same gods. Example Shiva can dance a dance that literally destroys the Cosmos. Meanwhile he is also regarded as the creator to many Shaivites who think he also manifests the Universe as Shakti.

In contrast Viashnavas believe that Bhrama created everything but he fucked up and pissed off people so not really anyone worships him. Meanwhile Vishnu as preserving it and Shiva as destroying it or at least the illusion of reality as inherently physical (to them physicality is an illusion aka Maya). I don't know how this really fits as Yahweh as Bhrama since their personalities were totally different. Bhrama wasn't, as far as I know, some guy claiming to be the ultimate god (TM) like a Demiurge would, pretty much everyone knows he's a scrub compared to the supreme personality (TM) of Vishnu, which is Krishna in Viashnavaism. To me a Demiurge has to of convinced people he is like God God, if that makes sense?

Also I am on no sleep and lots of coffee so maybe that was wordy. I guess I can see Bhrama as the demiurge in a general sense of "trapping" us in physical reality but I dont know how well we can compare *all* religions in this way and it pan out cleanly is what i'm saying.

[Xepera maSet]

I was guest speaking today in philosophy and religion and this was actually one of the main topics, lasted like an hour. There's a lot to be derived from comparing RHP entities like YHWH to fascist leaders like Hitler. I'm pretty sure I have now officially seen the face of a person the moment of deconvertion when  they realize Christianity is monstrous.

[Omegaphallic]

Personally, I differentiate Christian god, as a specific god, and YHWH. I see YHWH as the act of creating of cosmos. YHWH is one single god. YHWH is an idea of all gods which act as the Demiurge. He is the god of religions whose goal is to become one with the divine, as opposed to breaking the shackles of cosmos and becoming a god on your own.

 So basically the Neoplatonists idea of The One and Demiurges.