Author Topic: Chaoskampf  (Read 459 times)

Xepera maSet

Chaoskampf
« on: June 24, 2017, 11:10:53 am »
I've been trying to write an essay on this, but have been struggling, so this is just kind of a basic summary. 

Basically I have been looking at the popular Chaoskampf myths held my most religions, the archetypal hero v. monster, most specifically chaos or evil in world religions. Basically these myths are about individual potential and power, as opposed to the self depreciation of western religions, or the illusory views of the east. It teaches strength and struggling instead of sin or meaninglessness. 

Anyways, I believe that most religions, as well as things like atheism and physicalism, focus on the monster rather than the heroes. Obviously in religions like Christianity and Islam we see this quite clearly, with God being a monstrous, jealous, egotist desiring nothing but praise, but it's everywhere. Eastern religions believe the individual an illusion caught in the flow of higher nature, occult religions try to become one with the All and surrender to it, and even atheism and physicalism simply believe we are deterministic slaves to it. 

So if the All / capital G God / nature / etc is the monster, what is the hero? Consciousness. It separates us from the mindless reality, uncaring nature, and enslaving gods. It allows us free will, to manipulate that nature and fight against it, to question that god or further reinforce the supposed illusion of self existence. 

Example: illness. Whether a powerful god or mindless nature, we can see illness as a destructive and chaotic force very easily. Same with like depression and mental illness. Yet human beings, thanks to our consciousness, can willful fight against such things to better our own lives. Like Set against Apep, Marduk against Tiamat, The Serpent against Yahweh, knights against dragons, and so forth, we fight back against the overbearing monster and do so using the isolate, higher consciousness we humans have (Set being the best example, for Apep returns nightly and never dies). 

But consciousness is demonized, seen as the maker of suffering, sometimes even ignored completely or reduced to the monster of nature itself. We have fallen victim to these myths of sin and nihilism, like a world fallen to Apep/Tiamat/monsters. Whether the myths are true or not, there's no denying they have an impact on cultural mindsets. Everything from Christianity to atheism, even if true in some way, supports a near identical monster, and raising that monster above our consciousness will lead us in a negative direction. But individually, thanks ironically to consciousness, we need not be slave to one ideology. We can, and should, leave the mindset of master/slave systems behind and see the world through the Chaoskampf myth, all for the better. 

An extreme example well illustrates this: genocide. Religious genocide is the most obvious, for it becomes monstrous in its destruction of other conscious ideals. If life is an illusion (Maya) of some sort, does that really lessen the evil of genocide? If all it mindless deterministic nature, doesn't that mean the evil of the act is on that nature itself?
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Sutekh

Re: Chaoskampf
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2017, 12:09:41 pm »
Quote
So if the All / capital G God / nature / etc is the monster, what is the hero? Consciousness.
   I can agree with your viewpoint on consciousness, but wouldn't it be the Prince of Darkness himself as the hero as well?  I understand that Consciousness is the things that we use daily, we can say that the Prince of Darkness as a hero may live in the Subjective Universe which is our own consciousness.
"Our collective ambition is that the membership of the Order of the Serpent also serves as guardians of the Black Flame and collaborates with the Prince of Darkness in the Infernal Mandate of re-creating the Cosmos in the eternal glory of the Setian Will!"-Setamontet

Xepera maSet

Re: Chaoskampf
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2017, 12:12:20 pm »
Quote
So if the All / capital G God / nature / etc is the monster, what is the hero? Consciousness.
  I can agree with your viewpoint on consciousness, but wouldn't it be the Prince of Darkness himself as the hero as well?  I understand that Consciousness is the things that we use daily, we can say that the Prince of Darkness as a hero may live in the Subjective Universe which is our own consciousness.

Absolutely! Consciousness must imply the Prince of Darkness as well if Platonism is true. Nice catch! 
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Kheper

Re: Chaoskampf
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2017, 12:18:45 pm »
Regarding the bit about Genocide, I think Materialism/Atheism, really has to come to a sad conclusion. 

If we assume the gene-centered view of Evolution is right, as many modern Biologists and Anthropologists say (like Dawkins), then we have to admit that the individual members are not the fundamental and most vital thing to Evolution. The literal genes are. So rather than seeing the individual species members as  independent conscious agents, they have to be looked at as simple "carriers of properties". Those properties being genes.

The issue with this is when you combine it with a Materialistic/Atheistic universe, there's simply no way to argue against genocidal actions as ethically wrong, or even bad. Appeals to suffering, human instincts and so forth, don't mean something is objectively wrong, and they also commit the Naturalistic fallacy. 

Without a Metaphysical view beyond Materialism/Atheism, there's nothing more fundamental than increasing the gene frequency in a population. All else is irrelevant, and only exists to serve the genes.

An example -  Let's imagine the Arabic/Islamic expansion never ceased, and they completely conquered the entire planet, replacing every non-Arabic population center, every town, city and village,  with a 100% Islamic Arab population. 

How can this even be considered ethically wrong according to the gene-centered view of Evolution? The Arabs would have exponentially increased the frequency of their own genes within the gene pool. Islam would have been the mechanism which made such a thing possible, so how could Islam or genocide be seen as wrong if it's so evolutionarily successful and the point to life is to spread one's genes. 

Such a conclusion could be combatted, but only through a deeper Metaphysical understanding of reality, without that, the Materialists/Atheists really have no valid way to deem genocide as wrong. No amount of pain or suffering it causes is relevant to a gene-centered worldview

Sorry that was a bit off-topic. Maybe you can tie it into your thoughts?

Xepera maSet

Re: Chaoskampf
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2017, 12:54:24 pm »
I think atheism can validate moral systems, I'd like to think Setian morality works just as well from a secular perspective. But I don't see how material monism, which invalidates consciousness itself, could validate morals. 
AKA: Three Scarabs, 1137

"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."

Onyx

Re: Chaoskampf
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2017, 01:23:57 pm »
I never understood Apepian religions that desire to become one with ego-death. Set couldn't be hypnotized by Apep, and his gift of consciousness is indeed the true hero, able to resist the forces that seek to swallow us whole.

In her interview on KHPR, Patty Hardy mentioned becoming the ruling power in your own life -"avoid what weakens you in this, pursue what strengthens you". The natural universe presents many challenges which may be impossible to slay by the force of will alone, but Apepian ideals can be.

That was my initial thought, you've given us a lot to consider though.