Author Topic: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?  (Read 563 times)

Xepera maSet

  • Too Serious / Not Serious Enough
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2066
  • Total likes: 2120
  • Mephistopheles of the Southern Deserts
    • View Profile
    • My Book on Setianism
What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« on: November 30, 2018, 02:03:46 am »
It's weird because for me the Order of the Serpent is the exact opposite of such a mindset. In my intro to TIS4 I wrote:

"...we  have  never  believed  the O.S. to be a requirement for  knowledge or growth. The  entire  point of  creating the Order  was to gather, present,  and  share  esoteric occult information  with  depth and  practicality."

To me this is because the OS has brought forth some fascinating and useful information from very diverse sources already in it's short life. I don't need people signing on or thinking they MUST come here to understand this or that, or that something is wrong or invalid if they're of a different mindset.

So when I see a group claiming to be the only Christianity, Islam, Satanism, Witchcraft, Voodoo, or whatever group, I honestly feel pity. Like what is lacking that you must think about yourself in such a way? And what's even the point? Even when it goes more to my personal religious beliefs, I don't think you must agree with me or that I'm a sole source of any information, and if I did there'd be no point to engaging in my religion! I'd also rather stand on reasons and evidence that some "one true version" claim.

Idk, what are you thoughts? Why do people need to tell themselves they're the "one true X"? Is it a lack of something deeper? Is it just ego? Is it literally just pathetic ape behavior?

Working overtime to uncover
the mysteries of existence
(as described by Onyx)

I have come into being like Set,
the Separator who contends against Osiris for Eternity.



Little Beast

Re: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2018, 05:56:18 am »
All IMO:

Humans via their nature and nurture are social animals, LHP people somewhat less so, but despite their self justified elitism they are the same species. Competition is definitive on sociological positions of leadership - so "the best" is an ingrained doctrine from birth to death. In the past I pitied them, but now I empathise with their willful ignorance, despite the fact they blatantly refuse to accept freedom. It's much harder to be free than to be a slave, and no one who is "the best" is free at all because they're still comparing themselves to another. Likewise; my ego may consider itself "free", but I am bound by many of the same laws (such as those of physics and genetics) as the homo sapiens.

There's a word in philosophy for this kind of existential conundrum but I do not recall it. Plato's Cave might work for some. What I wrote in the Gnostic Satanism sub-forum works for me. It's kind of a non issue from my point of view, but as Obi Won said it's all just - "the truth, from another point of view."
I'll be a thorn in your side,
'Til you die
I'll be a thorn in your side
For All Ways

- Chvrches - We Sink

Etu Malku

Re: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2018, 05:12:43 pm »
I'm not sure I would trust the integrity of any esoteric organization which does not proclaim their Ideals to be the Only True ones. How will I be convinced if their own upper echelon isn't?
IAMTHATIAMNOT

Inlustratus

Re: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2018, 05:28:01 pm »
Wordnik puts elitism as:
"The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources".
It obviously shows lack of self-esteem trying to compensate by calling themselves the elite while actually having no real qualities that would prove that. It's like that kid in school that kept telling everybody they he doesn't care, yet seeing that he might care too much.
While that kind of elitism sure is disgusting to me (eg. LaVeyan satanists saying that LaVey "invented satanism"), elitism on a bigger scale is much more problematic (eg. christians saying that christianity is the only true religion).
*scary satanic text*

Little Beast

Re: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2018, 09:14:56 am »
How will I be convinced if their own upper echelon isn't?

I'm pretty sure people join cults for the "bottom echelon" these days.
I'll be a thorn in your side,
'Til you die
I'll be a thorn in your side
For All Ways

- Chvrches - We Sink

Xepera maSet

  • Too Serious / Not Serious Enough
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2066
  • Total likes: 2120
  • Mephistopheles of the Southern Deserts
    • View Profile
    • My Book on Setianism
Re: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2018, 12:52:16 pm »
I'm not sure I would trust the integrity of any esoteric organization which does not proclaim their Ideals to be the Only True ones. How will I be convinced if their own upper echelon isn't?

I could never trust a group claiming epistemological certainty. Shit even doctors will admit medicine is a practice .

Working overtime to uncover
the mysteries of existence
(as described by Onyx)

I have come into being like Set,
the Separator who contends against Osiris for Eternity.



Mindmaster

Re: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2018, 08:09:27 pm »
Idk, what are you thoughts? Why do people need to tell themselves they're the "one true X"? Is it a lack of something deeper? Is it just ego? Is it literally just pathetic ape behavior?

Understand that half the population is below average IQ, and half of that is borderline retarded, and that half of them are ACTUALLY retarded. It's that ape-like behavior you're on to.

The condition of intelligence brings awareness of what you don't know, and it also brings the awareness of other lines of thought than your own. I'd not reduce it to an ego thing per Se, but realize it for it was -- demonstrated ignorance. Such intelligence also brings a healthy amount of self-doubt, enough to keep one honest. The zeal, for which most of this thread is about, is largely a side-effect of stupidity. :D

Kapalika

Re: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2018, 09:01:43 am »
They all wanna feel cool for being in an exclusive club basically. So ya, ego. Counterproductive pride. I wish people were just proud of shit they did, not shit they were or are or whatever. It's one thing to say hey I'm proud of owning this disliked quality of mine...  but that's actually doing something.


Examples,


1. Bob brags about being a writer. He never writes shit, it's just a label for his Ego. Fuck him.


2. Bob writes all super shitty and he gets upset when people try to give constructive advice and tells them to shove it. Counter productive pride


3. Bob writes alright, but some people just shit on it all day without actual feedback. he tells them to go fuck off and double downs on writing his okay but not terrible stuff. he's proud he's not letting it get to him, and that's okay.


4. Bob writes amazing stuff. he's proud that he does so well, and people like his work. This pride is the most ideal as bob works his ass off for it.


Exclusive "one true way" are either example 1 or 2 usually, since it ends up about preserving the dogma simply for the sake of doing so rather than carrying the torch the spirit of the teachings. the actual application.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 09:04:16 am by Kapalika »
https://kapalika.com

My religion is Satanism & Kashmir Shaivism via Vāmācāra

"We have none but evidence for the prosecution [against Satan] and yet we have rendered the verdict. To my mind, this is irregular. It is un-English. It is un-American; it is French." ... "We may not pay him reverence, for that would be indiscreet, but we can at least respect his talents." - Mark Twain
"God and the individual are one. To realize this is the essence of Shaivism." - Swami Lakshmanjoo

Olive

Re: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2018, 03:11:22 pm »
The condition of intelligence brings awareness of what you don't know, and it also brings the awareness of other lines of thought than your own. I'd not reduce it to an ego thing per Se, but realize it for it was -- demonstrated ignorance. Such intelligence also brings a healthy amount of self-doubt, enough to keep one honest. The zeal, for which most of this thread is about, is largely a side-effect of stupidity. :D

Intelligence is one of the great prophets. Does it not reveal to us what the results of our actions will likely be, ahead of time?


But yes Xepera, the OS is a breath of fresh air. Throughout the ages the spiritual sciences have been plagued by this “one true way” nonsense. Differing paths have differing results, yes - but if one is getting all he needs from the road he walks, there is really no need to evangelize him to take up a cross that is not his own.

I for one really appreciate being here among a congregation of differing perspectives. It keeps me humble - and reminds me not to take other views off the table. I consider many of you to be friends and brothers. Perhaps we do not practice the same way, and we cannot recite the same doctrine, but all of us can carry the seal of the Order of the Serpent and have surety in our individual apprehension of the great matter.


Even the Silver Amulet I wear every day to honor my patron bears the image of the Serpent. There is a lot of meaning in that for me but one of them is certainly a nod to this place. :)





    Art thou pale for weariness
Of climbing heaven, and gazing on the earth,
     Wandering companionless
Among the stars that have a different birth, -
And ever-changing, like a joyless eye
That finds no object worth its constancy?

-Percy Bysshe Shelley

idgo

Re: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2018, 04:22:31 am »
Claims of Truth among the sufficiently educated say more to me about how an organization wants to manage its Consensus and homogeneity, than about any implication of philosophical absolutism. To me, "this is True here" is a starting point from which a group may collectively delve deeper than they possibly could if they were instead busying themselves with a focus on the higher-level relativity and flexibility of "Truth".

Every effective collaboration that I've encountered has had some fundamental Truths they work on -- one can disagree with those tenets, but by doing so one inherently opts out of the organization's work, because that shared belief is a necessary precondition to making progress in whatever work the group has chosen. For instance, a sports team holds the Truth of "we wish to win this game", a musical group holds the Truth of "this is what we wish to play". Without those fundamental shared desires, the group devolves into a skirmish rather than a collaboration. This doesn't mean that each individual must hold that shared Truth in contexts outside their involvement with the group, of course -- a musician could play in both a rock band and a jazz band, and hold very different Truths about how they should sound from hour to hour depending on which ensemble they're with.

This transactional sort of Truth is muddied when mixed with religious organizations, because they often include an assumption that practicing the group's tasks or nature 24/7 is necessary for successful participation.

Now, because we cannot have nice things, the world also contains stupid people who cannot process relative statements, and thus transform any complex relativity they encounter into a black-and-white misconception. I'm reminded of the thread http://orderoftheserpent.org/forum/index.php?topic=927, which seems to me to have also touched on this effect.

crossfire

Re: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2018, 05:37:55 pm »
I'm not sure I would trust the integrity of any esoteric organization which does not proclaim their Ideals to be the Only True ones. How will I be convinced if their own upper echelon isn't?
If it had integrity, then would there be a need to make such a proclamation?
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
~Carl Jung

Little Beast

Re: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2018, 08:37:19 am »
No, no, no... you're all getting this wrong.

I actually hold the copyright to Free Thought (TM) and unless you follow my Uncle Daddy's way of thinking - which was passed on to me and me alone - you don't get to go in the Grand Prize Draw at the End of the Universe. Even if you don't win you get the t-shirt, what are you waiting for?!?!
I'll be a thorn in your side,
'Til you die
I'll be a thorn in your side
For All Ways

- Chvrches - We Sink

Etu Malku

Re: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2018, 11:15:09 am »
I'm not sure I would trust the integrity of any esoteric organization which does not proclaim their Ideals to be the Only True ones. How will I be convinced if their own upper echelon isn't?
If it had integrity, then would there be a need to make such a proclamation?
The beliefs of the Temple of Set are found in the first literature you are sent as a member, it can be found online as well. I believe this organization has integrity. The very organization from which you hail, proudly proclaim its beliefs publicly as well.

Why then, would you join a dishonest organization?
IAMTHATIAMNOT

Little Beast

Re: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2018, 12:45:54 pm »
"Power".
I'll be a thorn in your side,
'Til you die
I'll be a thorn in your side
For All Ways

- Chvrches - We Sink

Onyx

Re: What's it say of ANY organization to be the "one true kind"?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2018, 04:29:12 pm »
I guess it's one thing to pursue particular framework(s) of thought, and another to dictate belief in some absolute manner. Personal truths come through experience in my opinion, hence there is value in initiatory organizations, and online things like the O.S. where ideas can be thrown around for the taking.

I didn't become proficient in electronics, computer programming, and creative things on my own. Lots of shit to learn in life but so little time, if this place can provide a few shortcuts then I'm happy.