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Messages - crossfire

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1
General LHP Discussion / Re: The main goal and path of magic?
« on: February 01, 2018, 08:42:26 pm »
"My will be done"

2
General LHP Discussion / Re: Process Philosophy and Process Theism
« on: January 27, 2018, 04:21:10 pm »
<...>


Actually, it's having self views which is considered a hindrance in Buddhism.  This includes both holding the view that there is an Atman, as well as holding the view that there is no Atman.  Holding views regarding Atman or no Atman builds up a philosophical thicket that you have to chop down in order to observe unobscured.

What is the annata if not... no atman? Isn't that literally what it means? I've talked about this with a lot of Buddhists from Middle Way, to randoms on the internet to a Vajrayana monk. It seems that they don't believe in an atman and take the annata stance. Unless I really didn't understand WTF they were saying, it sounded like holding we have no atman is required to be a Buddhist (and thus, according to him, practice "real tantra"). This was actually a point of contention and why any discussion broke down with me and the monk, sadly.


Check out this link to the
Sabbasava Sutta:
Quote
"As he attends inappropriately in this way, one of six kinds of view arises in him: The view I have a self arises in him as true & established, or the view I have no self... or the view It is precisely by means of self that I perceive self... or the view It is precisely by means of self that I perceive not-self... or the view It is precisely by means of not-self that I perceive self arises in him as true & established, or else he has a view like this: This very self of mine — the knower that is sensitive here & there to the ripening of good & bad actions — is the self of mine that is constant, everlasting, eternal, not subject to change, and will stay just as it is for eternity. This is called a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a writhing of views, a fetter of views. Bound by a fetter of views, the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is not freed from birth, aging, & death, from sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. He is not freed, I tell you, from suffering & stress.
The idea of Self or No-Self is not fit for attention, as it creates a thicket of views that one does not get freed from.

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General LHP Discussion / Re: Process Philosophy and Process Theism
« on: January 26, 2018, 04:55:20 pm »
<...>
3. Okay, now for the last one... My main gripe with Process Theory is that it's essentially, to me, a third of Buddhism. The other third I don't like which Process Theory implies, and why I'm not a Buddhist, is that since there is no fixed, eternal "self" that we don't exist. @crossfire touched on this with me in the other topic, when I asked if this was why Buddhists believe in the Anatta. I actually had a bit of a debate about this with another Buddhist yesterday to no better understanding.

<...>

Anyways since Buddhism says we don't exist, it has more in common with self-annihilation rather than self-deification. I know that this kind of nihilism is a stepping stone in Buddhism but no one's ever properly told me how you get out of that nihilism. My understanding of what comes after nihilism is partial but as I understand the final outcome it's utterly incompatible with my beliefs.

<..>
Actually, it's having self views which is considered a hindrance in Buddhism.  This includes both holding the view that there is an Atman, as well as holding the view that there is no Atman.  Holding views regarding Atman or no Atman builds up a philosophical thicket that you have to chop down in order to observe unobscured.

4
General LHP Discussion / Re: Process Philosophy and Process Theism
« on: January 25, 2018, 03:06:32 pm »
I think it would also allow for an understanding of the universe without platonism. Knowledge isn't a stable form, but a relationship between things that is ever changing. This eliminates the need to say there is an "all-knowing" god in the Form of Knowledge. Consciousness is similar, it a relationship and a process, same as even the soul, which is not static but can change, which fits better with the concept of Initiation.
I often say that I'd love to watch Chuangzi slap Plato silly. ;)

5
General LHP Discussion / Re: How do you treat your altar?
« on: January 19, 2018, 10:13:19 pm »
I create a new altar for each ritual if needed.  Oftentimes, I won't use an altar, unless it is a complicated ritual.

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General LHP Discussion / Re: Thoughts or input on this Map (draft)?
« on: January 18, 2018, 09:52:46 pm »
I fail to see how it's possible to not have a world view. One not on here sure, let me know where it would fit! But in general? I think we can withhold from preaching or pushing our view, but I think everyone has one, and monism/pluralism are pretty much the only two options at most basic.
Here is the closest Western philosophical school to my view that I have found:  it is not substance based.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_philosophy


Note to self to interrogate you later to pick your brain... I'm not too versed in this perspective but I can see similarities in my own understanding.


Also would you say this it is line of thinking is the justification of the Anatta? That the stream of consciousness can't be identified by Atman because of this constant change?
Yep.  It's like the Uncertainty Principle.  You need mass to measure momentum, (or something like that,) so every time you try to take a measurement, it changes.  Likewise, if you use Self to observe Self, it also changes.  What you are left with is nebulous, difficult to fathom, and even more difficult to describe.  Buddha referred to this as "Tathagatha--the one thus gone.

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General LHP Discussion / Re: Thoughts or input on this Map (draft)?
« on: January 18, 2018, 03:43:25 pm »
I fail to see how it's possible to not have a world view. One not on here sure, let me know where it would fit! But in general? I think we can withhold from preaching or pushing our view, but I think everyone has one, and monism/pluralism are pretty much the only two options at most basic.
Here is the closest Western philosophical school to my view that I have found:  it is not substance based.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_philosophy

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General LHP Discussion / Re: Thoughts or input on this Map (draft)?
« on: January 17, 2018, 07:00:37 pm »
I don't subscribe to any form of substance theory, so I'm not sure where I would be on the chart.

9
In my opinion, the most wonderous workings are the ones that you don't recognize the effect until long after it has firmly taken root. :)

edit to add:  those also are actually the ones to cause permanent transformation instead of temporary effect, so they are the most powerful, imo.

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General LHP Discussion / Re: The Goddess Kali
« on: January 11, 2018, 07:09:07 am »
I just remembered there is a LHP Shakta/Satanist I know on IRC I could probably get on here, he might share his own view as well to give us yet another perspective.


I would say that Black Tara and Kali probably both arose from a common earlier goddess representing the power of transforming hatred into compassion--a demon slayer.  Black Tara has many different forms according to the culture--even out to Burma.  Some bear a strong resemblance to Kali, others--not so much. 

Within Buddhism wrathful deities/actions are plugged into in order to get around or destroy obstacles,  and in Black Tara's case, the obstacle is hatred.  I thought that it might be interesting to find the common ground between Black Tara and Kali, and try to get to the common root.


With that in mind, what would you make of the story where she was so swept in blood lust, that she threatened to kill everyone even her own? Shiva eventually laid below her so she would step on him and come out of it. This is the popular depiction of her with Shiva under her.
I don't know what to think about it.

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General LHP Discussion / Re: The Goddess Kali
« on: January 10, 2018, 04:36:39 pm »


I'm Buddhist, so I'll speak about Black Tara. She's like a shamanic bridge between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind. She's the wrathful aspect of peaceful Green Tara, and is great for breaking bad habits and overcoming other psychological obstacles--aka a demon slayer.

Interesting the commonality of being a demon slayer, but I'm not too familiar her. Some googling indicated she's both in Mahayana and Vajrayana but from some goolging and wikipedia seems her origins are debated. I know it's common of Tantric Buddhism particularly in Nepal to take fierce deities like Bhairava and Kali and incorporate them into Buddhism. And since Shakta and Buddhism share her it's not unlikely, but the evidence points to her being more tied to Durga than Kali if the couple of results i found on google are to be trusted so I'm not sure.

Could you expand on the link of Kali and Tara or anything else I just mentioned?
I would say that Black Tara and Kali probably both arose from a common earlier goddess representing the power of transforming hatred into compassion--a demon slayer.  Black Tara has many different forms according to the culture--even out to Burma.  Some bear a strong resemblance to Kali, others--not so much. 

Within Buddhism wrathful deities/actions are plugged into in order to get around or destroy obstacles,  and in Black Tara's case, the obstacle is hatred.  I thought that it might be interesting to find the common ground between Black Tara and Kali, and try to get to the common root.

12
General LHP Discussion / Re: The Goddess Kali
« on: January 05, 2018, 10:55:59 pm »
One more thing about Black Tara:  she's so powerful because her means of accomplishment is by transforming hatred into compassion.

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General LHP Discussion / Re: The Goddess Kali
« on: January 05, 2018, 02:23:24 pm »
I'm Buddhist, so I'll speak about Black Tara. She's like a shamanic bridge between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind. She's the wrathful aspect of peaceful Green Tara, and is great for breaking bad habits and overcoming other psychological obstacles--aka a demon slayer.

14
General LHP Discussion / Re: LHP Methods of Surviving Terrible Jobs
« on: January 03, 2018, 05:12:33 pm »
Graveyard shift.  Those daytime people are downright scary!  (They shoot each other on the freeway!)

15
General LHP Discussion / Re: What is justice?
« on: December 31, 2017, 02:09:46 am »
To me? Fairness. Without bias and considering all evidence. Injustice is treading the rights of others whether it be their right to belief, practice, free movement or ability to live their lives in peace. Injustice isn't necessarily canceled out by justice though, and it's a little contextual. There's a general social contract we are all held to uphold not just for others' benefit but for ourselves as well. The, "live and let live" type of idea. I think it meshes well with individualism and freedom.

I see "justice" as related to "satisfaction."

This is, scary as it is, not too far off when it comes to criminal law.
Yes, there is a difference between just, unjust, justice, and injustice.  Just and unjust is specific to individuals, imo, whereas justice and injustice is a group dynamic, that latter of which is misuse of group authority.  Your mileage may vary.

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