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Topics - NEMO 93

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1
Satanism / Anticosmic Satanism & Qlipoth.
« on: March 19, 2018, 11:46:38 pm »
I'm reading through Book of Sitra by N.A.-A 218, author of Liber Falxier, as well as Qlipothic and Goetic magic by Karrlson at the moment. Anticosmic LHP beliefs of every kind seem to be extremely influenced by Gnosticism. I'd urge anyone to take Anticosmic to imply destruction of the Microcosm. This is actually a key belief in Tyson's view of Enochian magick which is inherently linked to western occultism.

"In my opinion the apocalype...must be primarily an internal, spiritual event, and only in a secondary way an external catastrophe. The gates of the Watchtowers...are mental constructions, when they are opened, they will admit [Satan] not into the physical world but our subconcious minds...the apocalypse is a mental transformation that will occur, or is occuring within the collective unconcious of the human race.

If we were to look at the Gnostic interpretation of the Left-Hand Path then there would be a true God on the other side of the three veils. A lot of people like to view it as chaos, some as El, or some incredibly deep Gnostic concept I don't understand yet. Let's call him El for now.

When El entered into the world he remained concealed managed to manifest the demiurge who is YHVH in Kether. There's a theory that the qlipothic forces began to emerge when Geburah turned it's judgemental forces upward and decided to revolt against YHVH as he was an impure force. Every Satanist I know, whether theistic or athiestic such as laveyan, would be quick to point the story of adam and eve as God, or YHVH the demi-urge here, not wanting humankind to access knowledge possibly to control them. The Tree of Life was mentioned to be specifically in the center of the Garden of Eden but the Tree of Knowledge was never located. It was likely The Tree of Death that Adam and Eve ate from according to certain Kabbalistic interpretations by Rabbi.

The Tree of Death offers knowledge but a huge cost, the paradise found inside the Garden of Eden. According to certain Gnostic traditions, there were universes created before ours. One was a universe where the way only good but no one could prove their goodness and one that was only evil that didn't work out for obvious reasons so a universe that was created with both. This indicated a need for balance and the need for a tree of Death thus El manifested HVHY and the Qlipoth to oppose YHVH and destroy his enslaving order.

There are quite a few LHP that suggests three sacrifices of the self, that last being the God. This is the sacrafice of the human concept of God and Godhood therefore human limitations we place on it. The Qlipoth in many places are described as Anticosmic forces. Kenneth Grant compared them to a corrosive acid that would melt away any container it was held in. They're not forces to take lightly and they may very well bring about an apocalypse. As these forces oppose order, we can't say if the transformation they bring about will be good or bad. However, they will destroy influences imprinted on mankind by the demiurge YHVH freeing us from his slavery and offering us true knowledge. However, that knowledge may come with a heavy price, a very prominent theme in Lovecraft who inspired a similar kind of magical movement. A lot of people ask why a Satanist may reject the material world: because they value knowledge over it's price. Certain types of initation, whether LHP and RHP, bring about some events that are very negative in a material world. This is why it's important in Thelemic tradition to practice Goetia as a way to embrace the material to provide the support that we need to further our Will. But like the principle of the rune Fehu wealth needs to be spent and not hoarded, and to seek initation and knowledge puts your material walth at risk. 

Furthermore, as food for thought. If Gnostic Jesus came to earth from the source to liberate people from the demi-urge who he opposes he would be on the very same side of Satan! I don't mean to imply that the Jesus is Qlipothic in any way but he would at least be adversarial and Jesus was definitely a rebel. The idea of Jesus as a pacifist ignores that he flipped tables and chased people with whips. I wonder if ha-Satan could be Jesus' shadow much like Heru-Set?

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Reading / The Best Occult Comic Books.
« on: March 18, 2018, 02:14:12 pm »
While Hellblazer and Sandman are probably what comes to mind when people here this, I decided to make a list of comic books that are absolutely inseperable from their roots in real occultism.

First off, an honorable mention. Gideon Falls just started and while it's new and hard to say, it does feature it's source of horror as red barn in the astral you access when dreaming.


Nameless- Grant Morrison.

This comic is a true Lovecraftian terror that really captures the existential horror of Lovecraft's works in a way no one else has. It has a ton of references to real mythology and depicts Yahweh as an escaped prisoner from Universe B that's here to cause far.

The Invisibles- Grant Morrison.

This is actually where my username and magickal name come from. In the comic, King Mob is title that's passed down as a magickal name from generation to generation. Grant Morrison invented the Hypersigil with this by charging a sigil while bungee jumping. As a result, the book effected him and his reader's life causing an incredible ammount of synchronicities. It esentially functions as an initiation. The actual plot is about a group of punk rock chaos magicians leading a rebellion against the organization behind every single conspiracy theory. It's incredibly awesome and features so much references to real conspiracy theory and occultism in unique ways.

Promethea- Alan Moore.

An incredible comic who's art was so innovative that had to create a new printing system to truly capture the colors. Written by famous occultist and comic book writer Alan Moore, it esentially functions as a primer to all occultist concepts and it explains it in beautiful and simple ways. I highly recommend googling the art for it. He was inspired by a fairy named Promethea who seperate people would write about when they were unlikely to have prior knowledge of her. A new Promethea is crowned and instructed in the ways of magic.

Seven Soldiers of Victory-Final Crisis-Multiversity by Grant Morrison. Three seperate DC events that completely demolish the fourth wall. Final Crisis was the start of a unplanned event called the hyper-crisis that never came into fruition yet found like on internet forums thanks to 4chan speculating on the reality of fiction, a theme in DC works around this time. Morrison had been breaking the 4th wall ever since Animal Man tripped on peyote and saw the reader and realized he was in a comic book. However, he soon began to play with the "so below" and turned DC comics into this microcosm even using this trilogy has a hypersigil to make the DC Universe come to life with 7 Soldiers being the charge, Final Crisis the death, and Multiversity the manifestation and safe-guard. Multiversity has amazing themes of being careful what you let into your head similar to Nameless. Funnily enough, Final Crisis inadverntly led to a complete reboot and DC's universe is currently having a few year event/line called Rebirth.

Batman: Metal - Scott Snyder.  Batman is manipulated by the demon Barbatos to stare into the abyss. This unleashes qlipothic versions of Batman from Universe B, entitled the Dark Multiverse, that feature twisted versions of Batman he feared he would become if something happened.

Aleister & Adolf. About the alleged meetings between Hitler and Crowley.

Howard Lovecraft and the Undersea Kingdom. It's a comic based on the kids movie about Lovecraft but the art is beautiful. It's basically what I imagine dreaming about R'yleh looks like.

Aronofsky's Noah. His movie was based on this comic he wrote and published.

Jack Kirby's New Gods. Originally meant to be a sequel to Marvel's Ragnarok, Kirby left Marvel for DC Comics and founded their cosmic mythology. Jack Kirby was a Jewish man and mentioned so it is not surprising to see reference to Kabbalistic concepts. It's an incredibly trippy and well written and illustrated comic.

The Dark Tower. I'd suggest reading the books instead but Marvel is known for publishing good Dark Tower comics. The book series gets incredibly meta with the Dark Tower being the center of the multiverse and characters coming to our world to hypnotise Stephen King into finishing the story while he was in a coma in real life. This is way of explaining why everything he wrote since seemed to inadvertently tie into The Dark Tower. In addition this, it details the cosmic lore in King's multiverse and goes into concept of Ka, or destiny, in a way only Stephen King can. Also, one of the villians is an avatar of Nyarlhotep.

Neil Gaiman's Sandman starts off with an arc that's a parody of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn types but quickly turns into an anthology about imagination and it's relation to Dream. There's some cool occult concepts here and there but lacks reverence for mythology that his book American Gods has.

Fight Club 2- Suprisingly, yeah. Chuck Palahniuk wanted to kill off Tyler Durden for good. It's revealed that Tyler Durden is an archetype with a life of his own that passed down in men from generation to generation, from father to son, as old as the serpent in the bible. 

The Dark Crystal Creation Myths. Also, the sequel I can't recall the name of. Remember the classic Jim Henson movie? Well, his collaborator Brian Froud helped write and illustrate the comic series in which the rest of the world is fleshed out. Incredibly deep reverence to the hero's journey and campbell is in the original movie and it's love for esoteric concepts go deeper. In fact, you can find the kabbalah in parts of the comic as well as the official site.

Gris Grimly's Frankenstein. Technically an illustrated book. However, the illustrations are so prominent it's become a hybrid between comic and novel with some portions told in comic form. Any version of the Prometheus myth is relevant to occultism particularly the Frankenstein version.

Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth. Another Grant Morrison. Get the anniversary edition with the script and foot notes on the back that explains it. Incredibly deep into Jungian psychology with occult references.

Lock & Keye. I've only listend to the audio book and while it's more of a fantasy horror, it captures the tone of a romanticized exploration of occult ideas similar to Neil Gaiman. Written by Joe Hill, Stephen King's son.

Wytches by Scott Snyder. Okay, this is a straight up horror comic and the themes aren't very occult. But the introduction by Scott Snyder in the first issues tells a story about adventures as a kid in the woods rumored to be haunted and not being able to tell the difference between hyperactive imagination and what actually lurks in the woods.

The Marvel Tarot. I haven't read this but I just found it.

Theories on the Marvels of Myth and Magic from the files of Ian McNee! Sorcerer and outsider Ian McNee has been plagued by disturbing dreams and unsettling omens. Something is not right with the world and he needs to know what it is. To gain insights into his growing unease he turns to his most prized mystical possession, The First Tarot! Created in the distant past, The First Tarot is mystically attuned to reflect and track the archetypes of the Marvel Universe. Can this 'Tarot of Marvels' show Ian what is wrong? Or is something wrong with it as well? Peek inside the fascinating and disorganized files of a Magician on a Mission as he examines the current concepts behind Marvel's Myth and Magic and adds a few of his own. How do the Elder Gods connect to the Four Elements? Who are The Get of Set? And a who's who of Marvel characters presented in the context of the Tarot's Major Arcana. Is Dr. Doom The Emperor? Is Daimon Hellstorm The Devil? All will be revealed...in the cards!

Alan Moore's Swamp Thing. Really, get anything written by Alan Moore or Grant Morrison and it will have chaos magick and occultism all over it.

One of the main writers on Adventure Time has a web comic all about the creation of religion and occultism:

http://jessemoynihan.com/?p=11

The Books of Magick-Neil Gaiman

Walter Simonson's Thor.

The Maxx. There is more about psychology than occultism. A social worker dealing with PTSD has a fictional world she goes too and Maxx protects her inside her microcosm.



There's really a wide variety of occult flavored comics out there that can go really in depth to it. It's due to comic books as a nature of medium, sure it's fiction but the lack of motion and audio engages our imagination to fill in the blanks. Some extremely meta fourth wall stuff goes into that and it's the only medium I've seen to accurately depict the concept of 4th dimensional beings. There was a huge influence of Gaiman, Moore, and Morrison in the late 80's and early 90's which were comic books punk years as well as when they finally became capable of legitimate stories to rival novels. This led to these themes remaining to the point where you may pick up DC Comic and be suprised to see blatant esoteric concepts in-depth. In fact, Grant Morrison cemented the Justice League as a parallel for Olympus. He even wrote All-Star Superman as a solar aduration.


I highly recommend checking some of these out, even if it's an issue or two. They can be incredibly quick reads. A of them are incredibly long to the point of their Omnibus weighing a few pounds.

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Gaming / I found a rogue like based on Tolkien's Simarillion.
« on: March 17, 2018, 02:04:41 am »
I'm a huge fan of Tolkien with Simiarillian being my favorte middle earth work next to the Hobbit.

I haven't played this game yet but it's free. Rogue-likes are basically difficult rpgs where you only get one life and have procedurally generated dungeons. Most of the free online ones are very good but feature no graphics instead favoring a minimalistic sprite style.

Sil is known for being one of the only video games true to Tolkien's lore and themes.


http://www.amirrorclear.net/flowers/game/sil/

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Setianism / In which order should the tablets of set should be read?
« on: March 16, 2018, 01:05:45 am »
Certain tablets of Set can be found all over the internet as can many occult texts but they're hard to approach. I've read that those in the first grade of Temple of Set are instructed to start with the Crystal Tablets of Set. Is this correct? Any more detail on these?

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Lounge / Does anyone know any good pictures of the broken Orobous?
« on: March 15, 2018, 08:39:40 pm »
In traditions related to anticosmicism, the orobous is often with it's mouth and tail apart to symbolize a break from the natural order of the universe. It's really hard to find pictures of it however.

6
Wow, this looks incredibly interesting. Even if many of you here are into anto chaos-gnosticism and anticosmicism as much as I am, I'm sure a lot of the Setians and Thelemites here will find the Egyptian imagery eye catching.  :) 

It's the featured text on fallofman at the moment so it has a full page, list of chapters, and interview with the writer. It definitely has my intrigued, really looking forward to the chapters on Set-Typhon and Apep. Given that the chaos worship and egyptian mythology have been close to my heart for so long now, I'm definitely excited. I really hope it doesn't disappoint.

http://www.fallofman.eu/liberisfet.html

Any thoughts?

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Journals / King Mob- Journal II
« on: March 12, 2018, 03:33:24 am »
I had deleted past journal thread for reasons, I don't like to amass too much personal information in one thread.

But I just had to posted with how delighted I've come with my blapshemy lately, of basically everything single tradition I used. Working within the Nordic system? Okay but I'm siding with the Thursatru philosophy. So I'm anticosmic? Alright, well I'm gonna take some buddhist philosophy and praxis. Alright well, that's actually a good idea for foundation and doesn't invalidate your focus on Norse for sorcery rule. Nope, read that Slavic middle path book you have to learn how to reconcile both practice. Alright will that might be beneficial and not too different- and pre-order that new anticosmic egpytian book coming out.

It's pretty much EVERYTHING people complain about in Westerner's syncretic magic but part of the fun of your own path, especially in chaos magick, is creating a unique paradigm and sorcery style. I compare it to Bruce Lee's Jet Kune Do philosophy. Understand the philosophy of other beliefs than strip it of everything but the practical, it takes a lot of work but it's very rewarding when it begins to come together nicely.

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General LHP Discussion / Would anyone want to work on Runes with me?
« on: February 28, 2018, 04:40:55 am »
I'm trying to commit to this system fully honestly. It'd be nice to have people to work through it to keep me motivated to keep up with you as well as discuss with. I could totally send you my PDF collection on runes for you to look at.

I'm probably half way through committing them to memory intellctually but I'm only on the 5th rune for meditations to internalize them and emotionally understand them. Trying to work galdr(rune song magic) as well now after I've been practicing reading runes in both words and meaning. I like to spell names out in runes and figure out what it says about something, it can be startingly accurate description when it comes to stuff like deities, I actually used Runes to choose my magical name as the formula for King Mob is extremely useful right now and it's proven to have effect.

So my work is mainly meditations to understand the symbols of it, and reading the books to aid in meditation, and occasional spellwork through galdr. I'll also meditate on bind runes and I'm really learning how to incorporate them in modern ritual and understand how to use them to penetrate various mysteries.

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Other Religions / Thursatru
« on: February 23, 2018, 10:22:48 pm »
I can't remember if I posted a thread on Thursatru or not but I recently began working back in a Thursatru paradigm again. Thursatru worship the ice giants and reject the asaer and vanir. I respect and enjoyed my experience with the aesir and vanir but my issue is I'm not sure how far I can trust Odin at the moment, and Freyja while I adore her is detrimental to my love life right now, I feel, due to the sorrow she carries.

Thursatru is a Chaos-Gnosticism current. I've began my rune meditations again, I'm still early in the alphabet but it's unlocked a lot of their mysteries for me and helped me internalize their meanings. I began with some meditations on bind runes from Gullveigarbok recently and it unlocked a lot of thursatru mysteries which is interesting, there's a specific bindrune that you ask Gullveig to reveal it's meaning to you. It represents Loki and Gullveig.

Also, the answer to why I trust Loki more than Odin which seems unintuitive is found in a Jack Sparrow quote. You can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest. Also, Loki while a trickster values brutal honesty to a degree, just in a different way. He's more direct than Odin in my unverified personal gnosis.

I combine this with the Draconian current. Hel I really enjoy working with, she's a good psychopomp to unite you with your subconcious. She's also a really comforting aspect of death, I find, rather than an intimidating one in my unverified personal gnosis. Jorgumgandr I see as an equivalent to APEP although I still need to do a direct working with Jorumgandr. My work with APEP is hugely beneficial. I haven't done Fenrir yet but there's a lot about werewolves in any LHP norse test in lycanthropy that use werewolfs to represent shadow. Gullveig, I'm not quite sure on it. Seems intimidating but clearly a mentor role. My pets did not like the energy, she seemed open to working and respecting boundaries. I'm still not quite sure what to make of it. But as a Hekate, chaos mother, ice giant type deal she's very great. Brought me knowledge of the void within in a comforting way as well as other stuff. I used galdr magic to work with her and actually sung the rune songs for the first time. A lot of people relate to Hekate because of similar archetypes but I find her much less intimidating and bossy than Hekate.

My current goal is to path-work through the whole Loki family tree as well as the runes and concentrate my sorcery on Galdr for a bit. I'm definitely gonna continue with my HGA work as even the Thursatru deities are supportive of it and it helps a lot. It's nice to have a focus again and a beneficial one that promotes growth and healing.

Anyone here ever work with the Thursatru paradigm or have any thoughts on it?

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General LHP Discussion / Ever curse somebody for a petty reason before?
« on: February 23, 2018, 06:35:47 pm »
I'm usually not a petty person, and I actually avoid curses. I generally don't have a reason to. But one of my colleagues caught me in a really bad mood, and irked me, because of their personality and how we interact at times when I already have a bit of stress now.

I feel like kind of a dick because I'm friends with him outside of this but I do have a strong dose of misanthropy that going to school with a lot of *younger* people than me generally evokes because of differing levels of maturity and I can't help but to think "I'm a little salty right now and you're young and inexperienced and it'd probably be a good learning experience for you."

Probably won't do it as we get along outside a few minor annoyances but man, I didn't realize I could be so petty. It's odd as I'm generally someone who avoids baneful magick.

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It's a nice maxim, and I really like it but people ignore it's source. It was originally in the novel Alumat used by Hasan to form the hasashin and control them.

In the book he is quoted as saying "a powerful and immutable plan was born in me, the likes which the world had never seen. To test human blindness to its utmost limits! To use it to attain absolute power and independence from the whole world! To embody the fairy tale! To turn it into such reality that our remotest descendants would talk about it! To conduct a great experiment on man!"

I can definitely see how the themes can support the modern interpretation of it in someway but it's a bit ironic that a quote by a character who wishes to control people with religion is used for spiritual freedom.

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General LHP Discussion / Downsides of a solitary path
« on: February 17, 2018, 11:08:43 pm »
I've noticed a lot of my problems come from my path being solitary lately. I mean there's stuff I can definitely fix on my own and still be solitary but some aspects that matter will not be the same.

-Motivation

I'd argue I should have self-motivation and dedication anyways. It's hard to remember to balance that motivation equally to mundane and spiritual life and it can be hard to come by at all on some days. It can be easier when you have someone that will check in on you periodically even if its just a social call cause as an extrovert, it sucks to not have anything new to talk about.

-Cross-comparison

It's hard to have that enthusiaism without someone to compare notes with. It helps you know if you're on the right track or not, course-correct. You learn alot from colleagues. The more I narrow my path down, the harder this comes to be. It's good to have someone to point out things you miss as well.

-Collaboration

Collaboraitive process has a way of jump starting creativity.

-Community

As terrible of an idea as grades turned out to be in mystery schools in practice, I can see the want for the concept now. People around the same world view to talk with because while I'm not any type of prodigy or something: most of the people who I end up talkng to me about this are dabblers and it can be hard to relate or know how to converse about it with those people.

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General LHP Discussion / Controversial topic: Armanen Runes.
« on: January 15, 2018, 07:26:28 am »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armanen_runes

They're controversial because they're completely associated with the Nazis. Now, obviously, I am not a Nazi nor do I believe in racism or nationalism. However, the Nazi has many interesting links with the occult- including the Hitler being fond of the Theosophy movement. Himmler was the most famous link between nazis and occultism and I believe Aquino himself even conducted rituals in the Wewelsburg Castle.

Now- most rune authors I have read decry the Armanen Runes- not for the political affiliations but for their historical innacuracy. Almost all Galdr workers perfer the Elder Futhark but you can find a small minority that use the younger futhark- which introduces some extra characters.

But do you really need a long historical lineage for your magic to work? People create new systems all the time that are effective.

Do you think that these runes carry their own distinct meaning seperare to the historic futharks or do they tap into the meaning of their respective corresponding letters? Do you think it's possible to seperate the use of them from the Nazi ideology it's associated with? Now, I'm not saying that heathenism is linked to neo-nazis movement, it's not, you can separate it. But these aren't historic runes, these are runes specifically used by Nazi occultists and not prior to that.


14
I'm at a loss, none of my enchantments are working.

I can do divinations with a 90 percent accuracy if I had to estimate, and my invocations seem to work. But I can't get any of my enchantments to work. Not regular ones, not evocations, the last successed I had were King Paimon which was great but none of the other Goetics are working for me thus far. Well, the jury's still out on one. Fingers crossed he comes through, I'll know by tuesday. Even my own spells and sigils aren't seemingly working. I used to great at this kind of thing but I don't know, I miss being able to effect the world and write my own reality/life to some extent.

Any advice?

15
Movies / Sci-fi and philosophy
« on: January 12, 2018, 03:29:17 am »
We don't have a television board so I'm just posting here. I'm watching Doctor Who and it got me thinking on the sci-fi genre in general. To me, the best sci-fi always raises ethical or philosophical questions. Doctor Who, Star Trek, anything by Philip K Dick. I'm really looking forward to finally watching Electric Dreams.

While I liked the adventure tone of Star Trek TOS, I could never really get into The Next Generation and I think I placed it. It's too idealistic and focused on group mentality. The aliens are more focused on culture, its about working together as a team, and the people who have the integrity to be captain such as Kirk or Picard have ethics based on ideas. This doesn't fit in with my view of humanity. I mean, obviously we can analyze cultures so there is some herd mentality but it seems like all the ethical dillemas in Trek are based off what's good for society and everyone.

I think what's better, is when sci-fi plays on emotions. You can literally disprove almost any idea with enough logic, hence why it is symbolized by the air blade in occultism. I disagree with the reliance on idealism. Philip K Dick, and everything he inspired, as well as Doctor Who's strongest philsophical moments are based on emotion. Doctor Who, for example, is about one alien(who in the reboot, is basically Godlike due to being the last one of his advanced race with noone to keep him in check) having to make decisions that effect time and space on a grand scale in his adventures.

The Doctor just helps people because that's who he is. When he has to face a moral dilemma, he has more of an emotional pain that comes from him rooted in his identity and who he is and wants to be. I believe humans are more motivated as individuals, even if they hide behind ideals so I like this take better.



But man, Philip K. Dick. I can't wait to watch Electric Dreams. Let's look at the blade runner movie:



The philosophical question it raises is what constitues as humanity as we develop AI. It's a question that goes back to Frankenstein and it's becoming increasingly relevant.

The Second Renaissance really had me become obsessed with that idea:



I can't wait to see what this game does it:



Phillip K Dick also had an obsession with esoteric ideas and the faults of our senses such as our memories. I think "We Can Remember it for you Wholesale" is probably the short story that fucked with me most but I highly recommend A Scanner Darkly, especially the movie, for themes about memory, individualism, drugs, and distrust of the government. It has one of my favorite endings ever. The book Man in the High Castle even posits that the universe we live in is really an alternate timeline to the true outcome of WWII (and Dick used I-Ching to write it.)

Black Mirror is perhaps the best television show to use this. It's bleak and ugly and while Black Mirror refers to the screens on all our technology, I see it as a twisted mirror also. It's honest about or culture right now and shows us what we could very well become or already are and it uses techonology thats incredibly believable in this day and age now at least to some extent. some of it as even been patented. This goes back to why I think emotional content is more important. It's visceral and forces us to ask "is this what we want to be?" either as individuals or even society. Even the happy episode in black mirror, features a tough question: the tech is that human conciousness can be uploaded into this digital simulation so that they could live forever even after death. It shows both sides of the argument and favors immortality but it realizs its a question someone has to answer for themselves. There's a similar darker episode where you can use AI that analyzes your loved one's social media to talk to "them" after they passed. What I like about Black Mirror in particulary is it looks at all our faults, and how we would indulge in them if given the chance with tech(self-pity, revenge, refusal to move on) and shows us that we might not want that as much as we think we do.

Compared to these darker, and sometimes gritter, sci-fi I actually find Star Trek very lacking but I do think it serves it's purpose. But I think when it comes down to it, human beings morals and ethics operate on more what they feel than think most of the time. I mean, even God in Star Trek (Q) is very logical in a human sense and is beneficial even if he's a trickster. Compard to Sutekh or the Gods of Ragna Rok which is more apathetic towards the universe. I think idealized notions of the future are really presumptious about humanity's importance and "specialness" which to me just kind of reminds of one of the reasons I don't like religions like the abarhamic ones being taken literally- "oh god created mankind but only mankind in his image" 

This is just half-arsed philsophical rambling that doesn't really mean anything. I was just thinking about the different philosophical approaches to sci-fi and why I prefer the ones I do.

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