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Messages - Liu

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1
Setianism / Re: Xeper-I-Set
« on: December 06, 2018, 06:46:03 pm »
That song by Dissection was probably the first time I ever heard about Xeper and understood it to be a religious term. There is also this song, though, which I knew even before:


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Satanism / Re: "Satanism" cheat sheet
« on: December 02, 2018, 04:33:54 pm »
Where THE FLIP is my spiritual satanism?!?! We all know that Satan is actually AN ALIEN!
Lol.
And that's one further term us theists (and similar) try to reclaim from the nazis you are alluding to.

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I normally read them digitally ;)

But, I do add comments and bookmarks to the PDFs, and when I have the text physically (book or print-out) I may also leave notes, especially on the print-outs, because if I do print out something then normally because I want to refer to it later again and work with it.

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Satanism / Re: "Satanism" cheat sheet
« on: November 27, 2018, 07:24:38 pm »
What you call Devil Worship I'd call Reverse Christianity.

I use the term Devil Worship to refer to anyone venerating a mythological being / spirit / deity that has the role of a devil (by whatever definition) in the mythology it's from.
On RF I also call my own religion Pandiabololatry, which could be translated as Pan(theistic) Devil Worship.
The few Ahrimanists I encountered also call themselves Devil Worshipers. They are duotheists, but don't believe in Christian theology but, if in any specific, then typically in a Zoroastrianism-based one.

I find the border between Satanism and Luciferianism really fuzzy. Many atheistic Satanists seem to be also quite into the knowledge aspect, to a not really lesser degree than into the carnal aspect.

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Satanism / Re: Balancing Public Private
« on: November 13, 2018, 07:28:38 pm »
To quote some "holy" poetry:
Cursed is he that removeth awaye
the marke of hys master to please men
and not to serve in secrecy.
Don't fear that doing or not doing something would make you a false Satanist - we all need to face circumstances and find compromises between what we want to do and what is possible in the situation. Just work towards what in the long-term is in your best interest and you are doing the will of our Lord.

Perhaps you can find some spot out in nature where you can express your religion without needing to worry about others noticing?
Haven't found such a place for myself yet (didn't get far out of town that often and not having lived in this area for very long), but should be possible.
While I have the privacy of my own, fairly large, room, I also share my apartment with others who don't know about my religion, and so I normally also keep my prayers to not much louder than a whisper.

My ex used to make it my fault she didn't like my practice. However, you're not what you do. Avoid the identity trap. You are the "experiencer" not the experience itself. This idea originates from NLP. You're not what you do. You can screw up, but you're not a screw up. It's absurd to think that you are the things that you do. What you do matters, of course. However, you're not what you do my friend.
While I agree with the point, I always wonder when Neurolinguistic Programming is brought up: I heard it's basically a disproved method, has any of you actually used it actively and found it worthwhile?

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You're not what you do. As you slowly de-identify, then your left with being "something" that something is what some call The Gift of Set, Satan, Lucifer, or The Dragon.
This.

Thank you. Very helpful both of you. It's like that thing when you find a new love and yippy want to scan it from the rooftop, but you have to hide it--very Romeo and Juliet.
Heh, I can relate to that metaphor - as strange as it seems, through religion, all those love songs finally make sense (well, or some of them at least).

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Vampyrism / Re: Vampyrism vs Omnivory
« on: November 12, 2018, 07:55:39 pm »
I used to live a much more vampyric lifestyle and I was conscious of what I was doing. I thought it was great at the time, and I did manage to convert the results into some pretty amazing experiences - but I have changed immeasurably since then. Looking back on it now, I see that the rewards I reaped were never worth the time and effort they cost. Not only that, but throughout this time I was doing serious damage to myself and to others which I had vastly underestimated. It’s not that I was thoughtless about it - it’s just that I wasn’t yet developed enough to perceive the more subtle impacts and how far the repercussions would really reach. Some things just can’t be seen except from the back.
Why would using others for your benefits necessarily be bad for them?
You could also do so in a symbiotic way, and I have the impression you would agree that doing so would in many situations also be better for oneself.
It does require skill as well, though.

7
Over the last few decades, procedures for measuring, imaging and analyzing mental processes have grown in number and subtlety. During this same period, books for the general reader about the brain and its functions, consciousness, and will, thought and reasoning have proliferated. We have Daniel Dennett, Steven Pinker, Richard Dawkins, Cordelia Fine, Oliver Sacks, Michael Gazzaniga, Daniel Kahneman and scores of others explaining, and extrapolating from, new findings in neuroscience and almost always addressing the matter of free will.
Heh, I once wrote an essay for university were I took apart Steven Pinker's model of how language works in the brain with some counter-examples :mrgreen: Don't have that high of an opinion on him. Of the others I haven't read anything so far. From neurolinguistics at least I know that the general consensus is that we know pretty much nothing for sure so far.

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Harris prosecutes his orderly case by explaining what he sees as the illogic of our belief in free will, and the recent findings that have undermined that belief. Probably the most influential among these discoveries were the results of the famous EEG experiments conducted by the physiologist Benjamin Libet and others in the early 1980s.
They showed that the brain makes decisions before consciousness becomes aware of them. As Harris puts it, “activity in the brain’s motor cortex can be detected some 300 milliseconds” — almost enough time for LeBron James to get off a shot ahead of the buzzer — “before a person feels that he has decided to move.”
A while ago I read that the measure instruments that were normally used for that before, like, 2005 or so tended to have some flaw that was only noticed then, so who knows whether those results were reliable.

I said "rather than just logic". Logic is still part of the process and without looking at evidence we are working with an incomplete picture. It's why Plato and the like got so much wrong about the physical world, they believed they could figure out the world just by thinking about it.
I can see your point in general, but I'm not sure whether that applies here.
I guess it depends on how you define free will - the way I define it would contradict logic, as pointed out above, but if you define it in a way that doesn't, then looking at evidence is quite reasonable - I wouldn't consider it free will then, but that might just be a matter of terminology.

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Vampyrism / Re: Vampyrism vs Omnivory
« on: November 12, 2018, 07:20:52 pm »
For starters, I would never encourage anyone to believe anything.

Ever.

Instead, I would suggest if something seems as though it has the potential of being useful for you, test it to see if you can validate it.  If you don't feel it could be useful for you, then there is no need to force yourself to test it out.
I quite agree - normally my skepticism stops me from even trying out stuff, though.
And what if I feel it could be useful but don't see a way to validate it easily, and even encounter opinions that belief would facilitate validation?

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As per energy, this could be emotional energy, sexual energy, vibes that you pick up from a person or a place.  One very simple way to notice a shift in energy is to visit an emergency room on a weekend night. Pay keen attention to various situations as well as the emotional outpouring. This could also be done at a funeral, or a concert or sporting event. 
So you are talking non-paranormal matters that can be explained in purely psychological terms.
I wouldn't have used that term energy then, especially not without explanation.

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To be clear, I did not suggest that someone could simply Will themselves to do anything. That is only half true.

What I did, in fact, say that through Willpower the above mentioned choice would be quite undesirable and possible to do with out, yet still having it all without the trade off.

That Willpower would be to develop healthy habits that could assist in weight loss as well as not relying on a nicotine dependence to do so.
Yeah, took you a bit too literally there, just felt like complaining ;) And still do so. So please bear with me and if you want just ignore the following, feeling like letting of some steam.

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For example, it may at first be difficult to wake up in the morning and do a few exercises. However, with sufficient Willpower, it is quite possible to do. Likewise, it may not be easy to adapt to a healthy diet, again, with sufficient Willpower it is quite possible. With sufficient Willpower there are plenty of people who have broken nicotine habits.
As I said, willpower is helpful.
Still it might not always be the best choice - I did wake up early this morning and got up fast, only, having already half-dressed myself deciding that I really am too tired (having had "only" 8 hours of sleep), and so I went back to bed for another hour, didn't have time for any exercises that I might have done otherwise, and came late to work (the last part not being much of an issue). Still was tired all day, almost fell asleep at work once or twice. Not that tired anymore atm, only a bit, otherwise I'd already be in bed, and it's just 8:20 here. With all my willpower I have no idea how to tackle that problem on my own. (As I mentioned in another thread, going to see a doctor on it this week - hoping they'll figure it out).

9
Keeping the dream diary for such a period is quite the accomplishment- truly. They are notoriously annoying to keep up with. And your work situation, if it is as you’ve described, is a blessing. You would do well to make the most of it.
Thanks! I certainly try to.

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20 minutes of meditation is something I haven't done since more than a year, and I wonder how I could make time for it since I already feel like I have too little.
Never too late to get back on the horse, friend. There are a myriad of different ways to approach meditation, but some kind of sitting practice is in my experience fundamental to spiritual development and alchemy. 20 minutes/day really is not much of a commitment if you’re taking this stuff seriously. You must be busy, but surely there is some time you can reserve to yourself. I mean hey, it’s better than TV - and the benefits are enormous. :)
And I also don't find time to watch TV, or even much YT, which I do quite more often than that. But let's see what I can do. At least I have been doing daily 5-minute meditations the past few months, but dropped that habit some days ago, gotta pick it back up again.

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Would need to check to make sure, but I'm quite certain that this is not true for me at all.
It certainly has proven to be so for me. Just this morning in the eyes-closed phase of waking, I was able to review a long dream that ended up coming full circle and began repeating itself in a loop. I was able to resolve what remained of the experience and started my day beautifully. Now? I could only describe fragments of the dream with some difficulty.
I'll try it when I think of it and report back.

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One thing I perhaps should have stressed more is the benefit of sleeping alone, without someone else in the room or on the bed.
I can count on two hands the occasions I slept in the same room as someone else since I was like 5 ^^ (school trips, mainly)

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The thread was closed before I even had a chance to join the fun properly, so let's give it a try now:


I feel like this kind of argument is unknowable since we only choose what we choose and not something else. Hence we need to look to evidence rather than just logic.
But, how would you interpret the evidence, if not with logic?
What kind of evidence could there be that would not be disproven by it?

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Satanism / Re: Bible study surrounded me this morning
« on: November 11, 2018, 03:30:40 pm »
Great to read about your experiences, and glad you're fine!

Kinda makes me more comfortable with the risk of others noticing my religion if even on your continent people are as understanding.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, but, I also had an involuntary discussion about Satanism recently and almost slipped up.
We (colleagues and me) were in the pub late, and talking about animal symbolism, especially that of goats and sheep. So I mentioned some people consider goats to represent individuality whereas sheep would stand for herd mentality - and some guy who isn't in town often due to living in another country, he then asked me whether I'm a Satanist :huh:
Well, someone else had mentioned a few sentences before that goats are associated with Satan - some people from East Asia were present and weren't aware of that association - so it didn't come completely out of nowhere, but still caught me off guard.
Being both very tired and extremely nervous, I shrugged it off with something like, that's not what I said. The talk went on for a bit in which I was kinda digging a hole for myself, though, by talking about how I had heard of Satanism being pro-science and critical thinking (I was too nervous to play completely ignorant), but luckily I was interrupted by I don't remember what before much more harm could be done and then some other topic came up. Still wondering how that would have gone on and what the one asking thinks of my words if anything (he was the only one listening to my words and he never brought it up again). Especially since, thinking about it, his question was completely innocent considering the context and only by getting nervous about it might I have raised any suspicions.

That night I of course dreamt of having come out to my colleagues about my religion, and I felt very relieved in the dream.
Still don't intend to come out about it, though.
They'd not have any religious objections, criticizing Christianity is something my co-workers do much more often than me, some even going as far as making religious jokes, e.g. Christian being blood-drinkers and cannibals according to their own theology. But who knows whom they might tell it, and I don't want to risk my reputation that easily - well, if any of them read my posts here they might guess it's me, but that's unlikely enough.

So, no idea whether I got any spirits guiding me, nor into which direction.

12
The thread was closed before I even had a chance to join the fun properly, so let's give it a try now:

In the beginning stages of this thread, I wrote that I don't believe in free will.
Some scientific evidence for it has been brought up, and some counter-arguments have been presented.
But I don't think we need the natural sciences for that question, the science of logic is quite enough.

Say that your will is actually fully independent from your physicality and even from "lower" parts of your psyche, as free as you can imagine.
Even if that was true, I would still say that it's not free will. Why? Because you still cannot change what it is that you want. You are still bound to your will, it flows out of your essence, being determined by it. Yes, you may say that you have changed your will before, but how did you do it? Because you wanted to! Because parts of your desires were stronger than others. And even if you were to change those desires, the very impulse to do so would still come from nothing but your state of wanting.
A free will not bound to causality is logically impossible.

It could be possible that logic simply doesn't apply to metaphysics like that, but if that's the case, then arguments won't help, we could never know it, it would be beyond our reasoning.

13
Setianism / Re: Thought on Apep and Tiamat
« on: November 11, 2018, 02:39:59 pm »
I see your point. The Chaoskampf is a bit different in other mythos. For instance, Siegfried and George each slay the Dragon once and no more. I don't really have an answer for it. It is conceivable how Set's struggle could be construed as a Sisyphean one. I consider it more relatable to the process of Initiation when thinking of being met with resistance every step of the way. The restless surge in life.
George is "fun" in any case, instead of slaying the dragon immediately, he bound it and brought it to the village he had told to free from it, threatening the inhabitants to let it loose if they don't let him baptize them.

In other words, some of the stories might not fit into our psychological interpretations since they were simply about something completely different.
Not wanting to discourage you from trying and finding such interpretations, though.

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As much sleep as I seem to need (8.5-10h, not including the time to fall asleep or to get up, or I feel tired all day), I might want to make some use of it, but don't know where to start.
[I might actually have sleep apnea according to my doctor - going to a specialist next week, made the appointment already over 2 months ago.]

I used to keep a dream diary, consistently for over a year, but I have stopped a few weeks ago - getting up is difficult enough without trying to cling to the fragments of a dream and note it down, and I don't even use an alarm most days - luckily, I can more or less decide myself when I work.

20 minutes of meditation is something I haven't done since more than a year, and I wonder how I could make time for it since I already feel like I have too little.

Note: Saying that all of this is important, might sound ridiculous (to some people),
however, what is more ridiculous, is a life where:
1. You can’t go to bed when you want.
2. You can’t wake up when you want.
3. You can’t just stay in bed if you want.
If I'd have an office of my own I'd do that more consistently, but I already try to sleep whenever I feel tired and am at home - what keeps me back are media addictions and social obligations, and the fear of messing up my sleeping rhythm by taking a late nap.

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The practitioner should recuse herself to her sleeping room while not sleep-deprived. As she approaches natural sleep, she should attempt to maintain a subtle level of awareness as the processes of drifting asleep take place. One should observe without preventing sleep from approaching by raising conscious activity overly much. As this is done, several different kinds of phenomena may begin to occur, including:
That sometimes happens without trying, especially when I'm very tired - didn't ever try it intentionally, though.

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• As long as the eyes remain closed, one's dream recall will be nearly perfect.
Would need to check to make sure, but I'm quite certain that this is not true for me at all.


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VI. Napping and Interrupted Sleep Schedules.
Did try those out for a while last year as I had no real obligations, being unemployed and living at my parents' place. I'm especially fond of the idea of sleeping thrice per 24h. It is a tad difficult when being employed and attending courses, though, and even when I did try it last year, I needed much longer naps than the schedules prescribed and still felt always tired even if keeping to a schedule for a while.

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Vampyrism / Re: Vampyrism vs Omnivory
« on: November 11, 2018, 12:48:39 pm »
While I don't identify as a vampyre, I can find some attractiveness in the concept.
May I ask what kind of feeding you are referring to?
In another thread you mentioned both blood and energy - but neither believing in a metaphysical power of blood, nor being able to perceive energy, and considering that the examples you give seem rather of the low-magick kind of techniques with much more tangible benefits, I wonder what it actually is you are talking about.

If by predatorhood you include any kind of using other people for your purposes, then I would strongly suspect that everyone does that, if conscious or not, and a vampyre would then being someone both conscious of and good at it.
Personally, I don't consider myself very good at it. I'd liken my predator class to that of a squirrel:
Taking whatever "food" I can get hold of, be it by harvesting fruits and nuts or by catching insects and stealing eggs, but more concerned with keeping my own ass safe than with trying to catch a proverbial big fish.

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I could become thinner and more energetic by permitting myself to develop a nicotine habit, for instance, but the tradeoffs of health drawbacks and the inconvenience of maintaining a consistent supply of the requisite materials inspire me to remain without it instead.

That presents a false dichotomy.  With sufficient Willpower one can be nicotine free as well as thin and energetic.  Having it all is possible. :)
How? From my experience, will alone doesn't make one energetic - or perhaps I just didn't try hard enough (and thin I already am). If I want to be more energetic I normally instead try to achieve it (with only partial success) by providing as much sleep and food as my body seems to ask for (which seems to be a lot), and have never used any drugs like tobacco or caffeine (with the exception of rarely some green or black tea and the occasional beer that would rather have the opposite effect).
Sure, also for that, will is helpful in order to maintain e.g. a proper sleeping rhythm, but just willing myself to be energetic has the opposite effect if anything.

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