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Messages - Williams1001

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1
Setian Philosophy / Re: Beliefs and Arguments September 2019
« on: October 24, 2019, 04:14:39 pm »
It seems you view my belief in material science as evidence that I reject metaphysical phenomena.

that wasn't even on my mind when i was typing my post. it wasn't about you, the focus was on the hardcore materialists which is why i included the parenthesis that says "maybe not always, but a lot of times". i quoted you since i thought my post could go along with your discussion of science.

as a note: i do believe science and logical reasoning to be important since science has a lot to offer and logic helps to avoid being delusional.

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Setian Philosophy / Re: Beliefs and Arguments September 2019
« on: October 24, 2019, 01:04:46 am »
For the same reason we understand chemistry by practicing alchemy. Material evidence presents a more objective point of reference because its difficult to argue against.

It's a good place to ground discussion.

i have a shirt that says "everything happens for a reason and that reason is usually physics"

however, one thing that i don't like about materialism and the sciences is that they always (maybe not always, but a lot of times) ignore or reject the possibility of there being more to reality than mere physical phenomena. this is why i don't consider myself an atheist, even though i try to look for material and physical explanations first. i also don't consider myself to be an agnostic either since what you experience can be dependent on your perception of reality. so by changing how you perceive reality, you can be able to experience the gods.

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Reading / Re: What are you reading?
« on: October 16, 2019, 04:57:31 am »
i have just started reading "on the shoulders of giants."

its the biographies and the works of Copernicus, Galileo, Kepler, Newton, and Einstein
it contains Newton's principia, Einstein's papers on special and general relativity, etc. its good reading for anyone interested on the historical development of physics and astronomy, some of the the math behind it all, and the different experiments that were performed.

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Gaming / Re: What are you playing?
« on: October 16, 2019, 04:45:21 am »
i have been playing mario-legend of the seven stars on the snes. 

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General LHP Discussion / Re: the nature of spiritual existence
« on: October 16, 2019, 04:40:09 am »


I think the causal body must have some sort of memory of the waking life. Otherwise waking life is pointless.

would it have emotions? it could have memories of having certain emotions, but i wouldn't necessarily think emotions = memories of emotions.


i find somewhat interesting about this is that if you do something during physical life that you later regret doing, then when you die, and assuming that memory and the memory of the emotion is carried over to the causal life, the causal body remembers that and would become depressed since it can't be undone. so, would you say, in this sense, a physical act caused a change in the emotional state of the causal body? but then again, i wouldn't necessarily think that memories about emotions are the same as emotions.



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General LHP Discussion / Re: the nature of spiritual existence
« on: October 16, 2019, 04:06:07 am »

I don't see spirit and mind as identical or as any part, one of the other.

i was focusing on their interdependence, what would happen to one without the other assuming they are interdependent to some degree. its mainly speculation so i don't exactly know the real nature of spiritual existence. the only way i would see spirit identical is only in the same sense that conscious correlates with the brain. conscious may correlate with the brain, but they are still different.

Naturally I can't prove any of this.

i can't prove any of it either, but i can speculate. of course i don't hold any of my speculations with certainty and because of this, i don't hold onto any one worldview. so what i end up gaining is an expanded perspective. 


Of the three bodies, the most interesting to me is the causal body, because it holds the most promise as a vessel for power, and because it's the only part of me that doesn't die.


what about dying in a dream? just something i thought was interesting to think about since the physical body is not involved and the mind isn't at least explicitly involved. of course the body in the dream doesn't actually die since you wake up just upon dying.

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General LHP Discussion / Re: the nature of spiritual existence
« on: October 11, 2019, 04:06:07 am »

When I say "mind" I mean the conscious part of the psyche. There's also a subconscious part of the psyche. Mind is a component of psyche.

I don't yet know what I think about the relationship between psyche and spirit. Either they're separate, or they're identical, or psyche is a component of spirit, or spirit is a component of psyche.

if spirit is a component of mind, then what would happen to the spirit if some parts of the mind, like consciousness, dies with the body?

here are my current thoughts:

either the spirit continues or some parts of spirit die while other parts continue since consciousness is likely to die with the body. if all the parts of spirit continues, then they all either remain unaffected or at least some parts are affected by the death of the conscious. if some parts of spirit dies with the conscious, then some parts die and other parts continue. the parts that continue are remain unaffected or at least some are affected.

if all the parts continue and remain unaffected, then part of the relationship between mind and spirit is clear: changes to the mind does not affect the whole spirit nor any of its parts.

if all the parts of spirit continue and some parts are affected by the death of the conscious, then part of the relationship is: certain types of changes to the mind does not kill the whole spirit nor any of its parts, but affects the spirit to some degree.

if some parts of spirit continue and remain unaffected while other parts die, the relationship is: some types of changes to the mind can kill parts of the spirit but the parts that remain are unaffected.

if some parts of spirit continue while other parts die and at least some of those parts that continue are affected, the relationship is: some types of changes to the mind can kill parts of the spirit and affect some of the parts that continue.

this is not a complete description since the subconscious would have to also be taken into account, we must look to see if there is more to the relationship, and that this applies to spirit as a component of a mind. if mind is a component of spirit, then the what has just been said isn't correct. although, come to find out, a similar reasoning is used.

if mind is a component of spirit, then what happens to spirit if the mind were to undergo a drastic change?

well, either one component of the spirit remains unaffected, or it is affected.

if the one component is unaffected, then any change to the mind does not affect the spirit

you get the idea.






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General LHP Discussion / Re: the nature of spiritual existence
« on: October 06, 2019, 09:29:41 pm »

A place, yes. I see the body as a place.

it can be thought of as a place. but i tend to not think of it that way since if the body is in a different place, it is still the same body. you might want to elaborate your meaning of "place."



When I say "mind" I mean the conscious part of the psyche. There's also a subconscious part of the psyche. Mind is a component of psyche.

what is a psych? i have always thought of it as a mind and then defined mind as a container that stores mental phenomena.



I don't yet know what I think about the relationship between psyche and spirit. Either they're separate, or they're identical, or psyche is a component of spirit, or spirit is a component of psyche.

i will eventually discuss this, and when i do, it might help you to think about it. what i am currently thinking about the relationship between the mind and spirit is that there may not be any need to posit the existence of a spirit since, even if animism is true, mind seems to distinguish the animate from the inanimate. but i think the starting point is discussing how spirit might be defined.

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Satanism / Re: 7th Satanic Statement
« on: October 03, 2019, 11:08:25 pm »
As I've said elsewhere, I consider enlightenment to be a sham. I don't believe in it at all. I think gurus are con artists.

i wouldn't say all gurus are cons, only 95% of them are.

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General LHP Discussion / Re: the nature of spiritual existence
« on: October 03, 2019, 10:18:39 pm »
     to start off, i am going to define what i mean by "body," "mind," and "spirit." then, i will examine their properties and functions. afterwards, i will discuss their relationship between each other, which is just their interaction and the differences between the properties and functions. then lastly, i will discuss how they relate to other bodies, minds, and spirits.
 
     whenever i am saying body, i am saying "a condition in space resulting from a particular arrangement of indivisible units that constitute that space." a mind is the sum of the consciousness, or conscious mind, and the subconsciousness, or subconscious mind. i will use consciousness and conscious mind interchangeably, likewise for subconsciousness and subconscious mind, and i may even drop the mind part and just say sub/conscious.
     awareness is knowledge of your surroundings, so a conscious awareness is an immediate awareness. for example, you can have an immediate awareness of some of your mental phenomena, making it exist consciously. the conscious, then, is a container that contains all conscious phenomena. the unconscious, or subconscious awareness is also a knowledge of one's surroundings. this knowledge isn't immediately known, so it gets stored elsewhere in the mind and the container that stores it is called the subconscious mind.
     lastly, i am going to think of spirit in a vague and abstract way because of all the different meanings that are attached to it. hence it will be of use to see what others said of spirit so that we can take what is useful into account when giving a definition of spirit. for now, the best definition i can give is "something that is different from the mind and continues after the death of a physical body."

     the human body, is divisible and is not the same everywhere. over time, it keeps its average shape except for few subtle changes. it seems to be more dependent on the subconsciousness than the conscious mind. the body is correlated to conscious and subconscious states (the sub/conscious states have an effect on brain states but not necessarily vice versa). eventually, the body stops working and dies. the body has a set of senses so that it can serve as a container to allow the mind to interact with the physical.
     since the mind is the sum of the conscious and subconscious, the mind's properties and functions can be expressed as a sum of the properties and functions of the consciousness and subconscious. the properties and functions of the conscious and subconscious mind are dependent on the views one has. a discussion of different viewpoints on this is needed in order to learn how mind is described in different ways, so that we can benefit from anything useful that has been said, learn new properties and functions that may have been missed, and be provided with new ways of thinking.
     for now, the properties of the conscious is that it is that it is homogeneous, correlated to brain states, might be divisible during a corpus callosotomy (more information on the split consciousness can be found here, although according to this, it may not be true https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/01/170125093823.htm), and will likely die with the body. the consciousness allows us to have an immediate experience of our world, store knowledge of our immediate experiences, and allows us to reason and focus. the subconscious is also homogeneous, it is not likely to be correlated to brain states (i did some research to see if the subconscious can be altered by physical changes to the brain and i got varied results so i will take it to be not likely correlated). the subconsciousness doesn't seem to be divisible and it will more likely continue after the body dies. the subconscious mind serves to store information that we aren't immediately aware of, it appears to regulate blood pressure, core body temperature, and etc. it also stores some of the more fundamental beliefs we have about ourselves.
     by taking the sum of these properties and functions that we just given for the consciousness and subconsciousness, we determine the properties of the mind. some parts of the mind are correlated to brain states and other parts aren't, some parts die with the body while other parts are likely to continue. the mind is not the same everywhere since some parts are the subconscious and other parts are the conscious. the mind is likely to be divisible. the mind's functions are just the combination of the conscious and subconscious functions. inanimate things don't really have minds, so minds can also be thought of as an animating principle.
     it is dubious (to me at least) to say that spirit belongs to both the whole and the individual parts at the same time since there would be spirits within spirits within spirits and so on. therefore, it makes more sense to say that some spirits belong to wholes while other spirits belong only to the individual parts and that there is no spirit that belongs to both the whole and the individual parts. a spirit that belongs to the whole is emergent since if there is only one individual part, there is no whole and no spirit that belongs to the whole. with two or more individual parts, then their is a whole and there arises a spirit. the properties and functions of spirits that belong to wholes may be seen as something similar to emergent properties and emergent functions because a whole is formed when two or more particles come together. the properties and functions of spirits that belong to the individual parts are not emergent and are specific to each individual part. a spirit that belongs to the individual parts would not be one spirit but many spirits since each individual part is distinct and would thus have its own spirit and that each of these spirits would then may or may not be the same. really though, spirits that belong to the individual parts can be thought of, in a sense, as something similar to the electromagnetic field produced by a charge. whether the human spirit belongs to the whole or the individual parts is not important, even though it would be interesting to know, since we can look at the two options individually.

     when discussing relationships, we need only to discuss the similarities, differences, and the influences they have on each other since a relationship is how things relate and connect. because we have already discussed the properties and functions of the things which are being discussed, we can focus on just the interactions.
     the relationship between the body and mind is mainly their interaction and the differences between and the their functions and properties (which can be ignored since it has already been discussed). the interaction between the body and mind is just the interdependence between the conscious mind and the body and hypnosis. the interdependence between body and conscious is just the placebo/nocebo effect (the nocebo effect is just the opposite of the placebo effect, instead of healing, it causes more damage) and the correlation that consciousness states has with the brain. hypnosis is just the interaction between conscious and subconsciousness because it is guided and initiated by a conscious will. any effect produced on the body through this interaction is caused by getting in the right mindset as a result of hypnosis and taking action. besides maintaining core body temp and etc., the subconsciousness can, in some sense, indirectly influence the body. for example, you can pray, meditate (meditation is self-hypnosis since they both can involve tricking the subconscious), and believe all you want about gaining stronger mussels. but you won't gain stronger mussels unless you go to the gym and work out. what hypnosis does is that it helps you get in the right mindset, making your goals easier to achieve. in this example, the subconscious "indirectly" influences the body because without the proper mindset, then you might give less effort and may fall short of your goal. the placebo effect is different than hypnosis since it only requires a strong conscious belief and an actual supplement, like the sugar pill, to support and reinforce that belief. because subconscious mind states are not likely to be correlated to brain states, the interaction between subconscious and the body is usually one way. one way that i think the body can influence the subconscious is that the brain can alter a conscious state, which then alters a subconscious state since conscious and subconscious has a two way interaction. the problem with this is: can such a change exist? and if so, what kind of change would that be?
     because of the way hypnosis works, conscious states can influence subconscious states which can then influence our consciousness mindset. so the interaction between the conscious and the subconscious is two way. the rest of the relationship is just their properties and functions.
     the relationship the spirit has with the body and mind is just any possible interaction and their similarities and differences. their differences and functions and properties were discussed so we can just focus on any possible interaction. if the spirit belongs to the whole and not the individual parts, their properties and functions are emergent, so if the whole changes its shape significantly enough, then any emergent properties of spirit would also be altered since the whole is no longer the same whole. not only the properties of spirit would change, but also spirit would change since it can be seen as emergent. for example, flotation is an emergent property of a boat. if the boat undergoes a drastic enough change, like making a whole in the hull, the boat loses its flotation property as it fills up with water. this can also be related to the problem of the ship of theseus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus). spirits that belong to wholes may influence the whole because their properties and functions may interact or influence each other. so the interaction between a spirit that belongs to wholes and the body is at least one way. the interaction between spirit and the whole is two way if spirit can exert a change on the body via the mind. this spirit-mind interaction
   if mind is included in the whole, and since we know that both parts of mind can influence the whole (like the placebo effect and the indirect influence caused by the subconscious via a change in mindset after hypnosis), and if the mind has a strong enough influence on the body, then for spirits that belong to wholes, mind can alter the body in such a way as to cause a change in the spirit. if this is possible, then both the subconscious and conscious, via their interaction with the body, can exert a change on the spirit. also, depending on how the spirit interacts with the mind, the spirit can exert a change on the mind and the mind exert a change on the body, then the spirit can be said to influence the body making the interaction two way if such a change is possible. the latter part of the  mind-spirit interaction is really essentially the same pattern as the interaction between the conscious and the brain if the consciousness were to be produced by the brain.
     for spirits that belong to the individual parts, we can think of the individual part as a "charge" and the spirit as the "EM field" produced by the "charge." this is just to provide a way to visualize this and so i am not going to substitute these words in for spirit and part. this is not to say that the part produces the spirit, but rather there is a thing "attached" to the individual part. the body has many spirits since it has many parts. each part interacts with other parts, and the spirits of these parts can interact with each other. if we include the mind, the mind has the sub/conscious parts and each of these parts can have their own spirit. these two parts may interact, and so the spirits of these parts may interact. then lastly, we have the influences between a spirit and other parts as well as the interaction between the part and its spirit. ultimately, there are interactions between spirits and other spirits (which can be thought of as constructive and destructive interferences of EM fields), there are the interactions of spirit with other parts (which can be thought of as coulomb's force law or perhaps the Lorentz force law, again these are just a way to visualize even though they have nothing to do with spirits)

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General LHP Discussion / Re: the nature of spiritual existence
« on: October 03, 2019, 06:56:12 pm »

Certainly a far-ranging discussion!

i condensed the topic a bit, i don't know if that helps or not.

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General LHP Discussion / the nature of spiritual existence
« on: October 03, 2019, 06:25:37 pm »
Hapu and I have been discussing several things. these include, mind and body and their relationship to spirit, life after death, and the possiblity of a subconscious death.

the main point of this topic is to discuss these problems and to inquire different view points.

instead of taking up a lot of space here to summarize what has been said so far, one can read or skim over the Amaymon or the 7th satanic statement threads. if necessary, i can add a summary later so i can take other peoples' discussions into account when making the summary. or better yet, summarize every so often to keep track of where we are at.

if anyone wants to chip in, feel free.

as a side note, i don't have any particular worldview or thesis since i am always exploring new ideas and because of this, my worldview is always changing.

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General LHP Discussion / Re: Amaymon
« on: October 03, 2019, 05:58:26 pm »

You've convinced me. The term "subconscious" is more of a problem than a solution. Consider it jettisoned.

no, not exactly. i am saying it is problematic to think "subconsciousness = spirit" because some meanings of spirit are different from subconscious and vice versa and that thinking of subconscious as different from spirit is not necessarily problematic since spirit can thought of as animating a subconsciousness. we can talk more of this on the topic i just created.

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Satanism / Re: 7th Satanic Statement
« on: October 03, 2019, 05:09:22 pm »


We're definitely digressing here on this thread. On the Amaymon thread I think we're still on topic.

If you start a new thread I'll follow you there.

they are paralleling each other, so i will start a new topic. 

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Satanism / Re: 7th Satanic Statement
« on: October 03, 2019, 04:59:04 pm »
Perhaps I'm overlooking something, but could one of you tell me what you mean by spirit? Awareness?

thanks for the reference. what i mean by spirit is usually something that continues after death, it may be a mind, a life force, or whatever. the word has a lot of meanings, so i tend to avoid this complication by thinking of spirit in a vague and abstract way. this is also part of the reason why i study the mind and body interaction. i just started reading aristotle's writings on the soul to get a more rational understanding of it. however, i don't concern myself with the relationship between soul and spirit because of the meanings attached to them.  what i mean by awareness is just a knowledge of one's surroundings.

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