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Messages - Olive

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@Olive since your sigil is rather complex, I wouldn't mind reading a short explanation, but since these are personal in nature how much you choose to reveal is totally your call. Nevertheless I think this was a great idea, we should do it again in the future.

I decided to do a little video breaking the major elements for you guys. I was going off the cuff so the presentation is pretty sloppy but I think I explained it well enough.

My comment has some important info I forgot to mention in the video

Lounge / Re: was followed by a car tonight
« on: September 22, 2018, 07:55:55 pm »
My condolences Kapalika - that sounds like an awful experience. My response would have been similar to yours, I think. I'm very quiet and I have a natural instinct that impels me to move in a way that makes me difficult to observe, and causes me to notice anyone who does happen to look at me meaningfully. I pretty much rely on this to pass through shady situations unimpeded.

If avoidance becomes impossible - I would recommend confronting the problem person very firmly, with a hard look in direct eye contact. Just don't cross the line into provocation. Or alternatively, whip out your phone and start recording them. Most people are basically cowards, and will lose their nerve quickly in these situations.

But I understand your concern that a time may come when none of this will be enough. I have also thought about this quite a bit, as the people in my area are also generally quite transphobic and well-armed. A gun is a possibility, but even just wearing a knife could be enough. You may be aware that in a physical confrontation, a gun typically only beats a knife if the conflict is initiated at distances of 21 feet or greater. If you become acquainted with the most damaging places to cut/stab a human being you will likely have a good chance in most situations.

Heres one source investigating the 21ft figure I mentioned:

And a police training video discussing the same topic:

Vampyrism / Re: Welcome Vampyres
« on: September 21, 2018, 11:57:04 pm »
@Onyx - inspired contribution from another thread.

The difference with Satanism, etc, is that you choose the environments you wish to work within. I've been intrigued by this concept of "shape-shifting" mentioned within the Vampyrism threads, in terms of not only being effective in your own paradigm but perhaps others as well. New color palettes to explore but always at your discretion.

Quote from: Olive
It's interesting that you mention 'shape-shifting' - constructed paradigms are a specialty of mine. I'll hunt down the relevant thread over there and post a bit on it.

The best advice I can give to someone looking to develop this skill, is something like this:

1. In the beginning, use your conviction to create "anchor points" within your perspective that you will not trespass in your experiments.
2. Cultivate radical open-mindedness. Study new material that you would consider far outside of your normal paradigm.
3. Challenge yourself to not only entertain, but to accept elements of the new material. If counterpoints or conflicting knowledge arise in you, allow them to stand but not to deter you.
4. Begin to loosen and let go of your anchor points. At this point, you should aim not only to accept the new material, but turn your will towards proactively creating a mindset that is conducive to your integrating it.
5. Begin to create new anchor points within the perspective concerning the material that was once challenging to you. Explore the possibilities of this paradigm, with the knowledge that every hour you spend wearing it will impact the pathways of your mind.

This is a dangerous kind of chaos magic if you are not able to conduct a "hard reset" within yourself - removing all suppositions and returning to a stable state. I would recommend meditation, but that may only be effective if you are already highly skilled with that practice and can return yourself to the void. Another way is to preserve a core of iron skepticism within yourself and to never allow anything to penetrate it. (This alone can have a saturnian impact on the mind, so use caution.) If you are able to conduct a full reset on yourself, the anchor points you've created are not at once destroyed. They are deactivated but remain. And so a new form is mastered, when the relevant anchor points can be activated and embodied at will. It is actually deeper than just convictions and logical suppositions, however. You've also created a kind of conditioned familiarity with the new paradigm that make your assumed form infinitely more convincing than a man playing devil's advocate ever could be.

It has been said that the mark of an intelligent mind is that is can entertain an idea without accepting it; still more advanced is the mind that can accept the foreign idea as his own, in his very heart - all the while maintaining the resolve to tear it again from his own breast.

Satanism / Re: What has Satanism done for your life?
« on: September 21, 2018, 11:31:17 pm »
And even the products that were made for those machines. If we take the inspiration present in games with the best pixel art of the era and compare that your average UNREAL ENGINE 3 title - the concept is again demonstrated.

It's interesting that you mention 'shape-shifting' - constructed paradigms are a specialty of mine. I'll hunt down the relevant thread over there and post a bit on it.

Satanism / Re: What has Satanism done for your life?
« on: September 21, 2018, 10:14:42 pm »
...Satanism requires a lot of self-control for it to amount to anything.

Perhaps this is where the various paradigms can be useful. Sort of like an artist who chooses to paint with a limited color palette, and yet creates masterpieces.

This really stuck out to me and I agree. I had a friendly argument with a professional artist about Romantic poetry in comparison to more recent eras. From the modern perspective - restrictive and sometimes archaic formats like the Sonnet, and the sometimes impossibly demanding rhyme schemes - seem to be stagnant, almost anemic, and certainly very overblown. But to me the happenings in that narrow possibility space, that "scanty plot of ground," as Wordsworth calls it, are most resplendent among writings. The intentionality in every line is made apparent by the perfection of the word choice. She applauded my argument, though not conceding the point. It seems to me a universal principle that restriction creates form, and freedom gives vitality. Some of the best masterpieces of all time have been constructed under the auspicious interplay of these two principles. How much more this should be true for those of us who make art of ourselves, and of our experience.

Satanism / Re: Enns and chanting
« on: September 20, 2018, 07:26:34 pm »
Anyone want to talk about the impact and effectiveness of chanting? I apologize if it seems like I'm off topic - but I've been making use of similar methods to connect with my chosen patron for a while so I might have a bit of insight here. The Enns seem to me to be a type of Mantra; the video linked by @Kapalika even contains 108 repetitions which is very similar to mantra recital.

Do you mind if I ask what chant you've used? If you want to keep that hidden for now (and trust me I'd understand, sometimes revealing a method can reduce it's power), then might I ask what the effect of using it has been? I described a few of my experiences in my first post, but listening to the enn again it seems like it has a different kind of energy to it than anything I've worked with as of yet.

Lounge / Re: What the fuck has Religious Forums become?!
« on: September 19, 2018, 05:10:00 am »
Lol yeah - that seems like a really productive area for discussion. /s

I was amazed how little engagement was actually offered to the topic or you. And yet we have people having discussions about what repenting and coming to jesus... I checked that place out on hearing it recommended here several months back but I wasn't much impressed with the conversation there.

Satanism / Re: Enns and chanting
« on: September 18, 2018, 11:11:31 pm »
Thanks for sharing! I'd never come across these before, but they seem interesting. I'm not sure if I'll use them, since inviting and praising demons doesn't make up a big part of my practice. I can confirm the effectiveness of chants and mantras in spiritual practice though, especially once mastered and charged. I personally prefer Sanskrit lines in the Hindu and Buddhist traditions, although I sometimes draw from others. I'll share a few I use often in my veneration of the Moon.

1. The Gayatri Mantra
It's something of a universal prayer. Shakyamuni cited it as the greatest mantra of the Brahmans, and I can see why. It is quite powerful when you get the pronounciation down - quickly eliminating psychic blocks and anxieties. Aleister Crowley recommends reciting the Gayatri at once when one sees the Moon in the night sky, and repeating it until one does not err or waver. That's a great method for learning any mantra tbh, and it is also an effective excercise to strengthen the Will.

Goes something like this:

Om bhur bhuvah svah•
Tat savitur vareñyam
Bhargo devasya dhīmahi
Dhi-yo yonah prachodayāt

General meaning: We meditate on that most adored Supreme Lord, the origin, whose effulgence (divine light) illumines all realms (physical, mental and spiritual). May this divine light illuminate our intellect.

Word meaning: Om: The primeval sound; Bhur: the physical body/physical realm; Bhuvah: the life force/the mental realm Suvah: the soul/spiritual realm; Tat:  That (God); Savitur: creator, source of all life; Vareñyam: adore; Bhargo: effulgence (divine light); Devasya: supreme Lord; Dhīmahi: meditate; Dhiyo: the intellect; Yo: May this light; Nah: our; Prachodayāt: illumine/inspire.

2. Chandra Mantra
This one is more directly related to my Lunar devotion, as Chandra is the primary god of the Moon in Hinduism. The difference in effect from the last is marked. Chanting this brings one to a profound disinterestedness and calm, with a taste of the Moon's transcendental sorrow. I also found with interest that using the Chandra mantra greatly helps with qi manipulation in the body - especially with Small Circulation meditation or Five Gates Breathing.

Om Shram Shreem Shraum Sah•
Chandramase- Namah•

Meaning (roughly) : Born while churning the sea of milk, the shining one.

The sea of milk refers to the heavens and the stars, and to a very renowned story concerning the birth of the gods. Understanding this, the mantras applicability to the motions of the Moon is made clear.

3. A custom Lunar invocation. This one is in Latin, converted from some stuff I found while studying Agrippa. My friend who studied the language a bit said it checked out, but if you see a grammatical error here please bring it to my attention. This isn't one I chant repeatedly. I bring it out on certain occasions when I appeal to the Immaculate One for grace or the authority to heal.

Domina Oriens
Splendor lucis aeternae et Luna sancti:
Veni, et illumina sedentes in tenebris et umbra mortis


Lady of the East,
Splendor of light eternal and Moon of purity-holiness:
Come and enlighten those who dwell in darkness and in the shadow of death

That's it for now guys. I have several more I would share but I don't want to make this post any more laborious. Would love to hear any thoughts on these, or if anyone has used them before.

Gnostic Satanism / Re: The "Ophite Prayers" in ritual usage
« on: September 18, 2018, 04:08:44 am »
Nice post! I'm a pretty hardcore student of several Acosmic traditions, Gnosticism not last among them. It's always a pleasure to see content around here that has to do with an adjacent perspective. Allow me to personally welcome you to this shadowy coven of seers and serpents!

I'll keep things short, but I have a couple of thoughts to offer here:

-The association of the fruit of the tree of knowledge with the full moon is important and quite apt. This connection is preserved even in traditions which are distant and far-flung in relation to the gnosticism of late antiquity. I would invite comparison to the common description of Zen Buddhism as "A finger pointing at the Moon"; Also in the western esoteric tradition, the Moon has been associated with mysteries, revelatory visions and divination; and also in my personal aesthetic presentation and self-constructed theology. I would second your recommendation of incorporating the Full Moon meaningfully in your practice - since Babylonian times at least the culmination of the Lunar cycle has been known as the true Sabbath (Sabattu)

-This may be a bit nit-picky, but your claim at the beginning of this piece that this text presents pre-determined moral values as a false dichotomy is not strictly supported by the text. I think I understand what you mean but from a scholarly perspective it would be best to add another phrase or sentence to better explain the claim. Within the narrative, no other moral system is deconstructed or even mentioned - and the one that is presented is not a clear cut inversion of what we might consider a more standard ethical perspective. We can see examples of this in these excerpts:

Quote from: Bethge-Layton Translation
And in the presence of these, Zoe, who was with Sabaoth, created seven good androgynous forces. These are the names of the male ones: the Unenvious, the Blessed, the Joyful, the True, the Unbegrudging, the Beloved, the Trustworthy. Also, as regards the female ones, these are their names: Peace, Gladness, Rejoicing, Blessedness, Truth, Love, Faith (Pistis). And from these are many good and innocent spirits.

Thereafter he created a congregation of angels, thousands and myriads, numberless, which resembled the congregation in the eighth heaven; and a firstborn called

Israel - which is, "the man that sees God"; and another being, called Jesus Christ, who resembles the savior above in the eighth heaven, and who sits at his right upon a revered throne. And at his left, there sits the virgin of the holy spirit, upon a throne and glorifying him. And the seven virgins stand before her, [...] possessing thirty harps, and psalteries and trumpets, glorifying him. And all the armies of the angels glorify him, and they bless him. Now where he sits is upon a throne of light <within a> great cloud that covers him. And there was no one with him in the cloud except Sophia <the daughter of> Pistis, instructing him about all the things that exist in the eighth heaven, so that the likenesses of those things might be created, in order that his reign might endure until the consummation of the heavens of chaos and their forces.

Now Pistis Sophia set him apart from the darkness and summoned him to her right, and the prime parent she put at her left. Since that day, right has been called justice, and left called wickedness.


Thereupon, since the rulers were envious of Adam they wanted to diminish their (viz., Adam's and Eve's) lifespans. They could not (, however,) because of fate, which had been fixed since the beginning. For to each had been allotted a lifespan of 1,000 years, according to the course of the luminous bodies. But although the rulers could not do this, each of the evildoers took away ten years. And all this lifespan (which remained) amounted to 930 years: and these are in pain and weakness and evil distraction. And so life has turned out to be, from that day until the consummation of the age.

-I would also point out that your followup claim that according to the text the entire material world is evil, and only the acosmic pneuma is good, is also slightly off the mark in this case. The text claims a preponderance of evil not only in the material realm, but in nearly all aspects of reality including non-physical and spiritual spaces (Which I personally agree with.) But what I find particularly interesting is that there is also a lot of "Good" present in this writing ( much more even than most gnostic texts) on many levels. The transcendental light is not restricted to the extremely tenuous connection to at the very core of our beings, as it is in many other Gnostic scriptures, but is found throughout rich pantheons of good characters and principalities which arise from the pleroma in successive stages.


Like most of the characters in the story, Yaldabaoth has an alternative name; Samael, and he also notably has a role as both the god who creates the material man and as a daemon. This becomes even more interesting when it is he and his offspring who are addressed in the so-called “Ophite Prayers”, not the heroic Beast or the liberators of the Gnostics. These prayers aren’t prayers at all, they are quite simply one of the earliest recorded rituals of daemonology known. They are commands for the daemons to open the gates of the mind.

-It's not clear to me that these prayers were meant to be used to invoke or evoke the rulers or Yaldabaoth explicitly - although I admit they can interpreted in a way that is more congruent with that method. To me it reads more like a prayer for protection as one supercedes/goes beyond the rulers and archons as he makes his way through the heavens back to the hidden god. The Hidden god is actually referenced in the first line, and the prayer is brought back to him at the end of each line in refrain.

I salute the one-formed king, the bond of blindness, complete oblivion, the first power, preserved by the Spirit of Providence and by Wisdom, from whom I am sent forth pure, being already part of the light of the son and of the father: grace be with me; yea, O father, let it be with me.

If we read it with this understanding it doesn't seem to very effectively work with the demiurge and the dark forces - it seems to be a reminder of what obstacles must be faced on the path and the transcendental knowledge that allows one to overcome each of them. If you read some of the commentary Origen leaves us alongside these lines, he describes them being recited while advancing in a ceremonial fashion. This makes it clear that one of the original functions of this prayer was as a part of an Initiatory system into the mystery school. This makes good sense, as the prayer also contains of a framework of the different heavens that would have been essential knowledge to the cosmology of the sect - made digestible in a time when not every student had his own copy of the holy texts.

-It's also worth talking about the beings invoked by the prayer itself. Some of them are "reformed" or even holy beings, and you can almost tell which ones just from the difference in how they are addressed in the prayer. I'll leave this quote also since it is very relevant information for this thread.


Seven appeared in chaos, androgynous. They have their masculine names and their feminine names. The feminine name is Pronoia (Forethought) Sambathas, which is 'week'.
And his son is called Yao: his feminine name is Lordship.
Sabaoth: his feminine name is Deity.
Adonaios: his feminine name is Kingship.
Elaios: his feminine name is Jealousy.
Oraios: his feminine name is Wealth.
And Astaphaios: his feminine name is Sophia (Wisdom).
These are the seven forces of the seven heavens of chaos. And they were born androgynous, consistent with the immortal pattern that existed before them, according to the wish of Pistis: so that the likeness of what had existed since the beginning might reign to the end. You will find the effect of these names and the force of the male entities in the Archangelic (Book) of the Prophet Moses, and the names of the female entities in the first Book of Noraia.

That's all for now - cheers! Again, great to have you. Any criticism here is meant to be constructive - I hope my perspective has been useful to you in some way. I'm not sure how well-read you are in Nag Hammadi, but there are strong parallels to this account not only in The Hypostases of the Archons, but also in The Apocryphon of John and to a lesser extent texts like The Apocalypse of Adam, The Paraphrase of Shem, and The Testimony of Truth. I'd recommend reading a few of them. They vary in interesting ways, but they also inform each other. Keep in mind that the "Christian" perspective was not well formed when most of these texts were written. It is more accurate to trace them back to the Greek philosophy and Jewish Prophetic literature of the time which they were heavily informed by.

Another one I really enjoy that is a bit different is called The Hymm of the Pearl or The Hymm of the Robe of Glory. Not so much dry exposition on mythology, instead providing a narrative poem about the true home that we forgot and strive to one day find again. Link here: (

A lot of the more ornate sigils in this thread read more to my eye like a summoning circle or full ritual -- an amalgam of extant sub-sigils, as it were. My reservations about using such an explicitly spelled-out "program" for World in my own work are twofold:

First, the aforementioned difficulty in consistent and accurate reproduction of the sigil, especially when drawn small or as part of a larger piece.

I certainly agree! My sigils are normally quite simple and more easily reproducible. Indeed I had intended to stick to something like that before the unique circumstance which I've described here in this thread. What the vision produced was more like a mega-sigil or full ritual pattern, but I think that for this topic it is only natural that the representation unfold to reveal its many aspects. If I've overstepped the bounds of my own competition, you guys can disqualify me and I can create something simpler.

Second, I fear that spelling out everything which World is within the sigil is quite limiting: If I put each of my thoughts about World as a separate part of the sigil, then learn a new thought about World, where does the representation of that new thought go? Does it have to be a second-class part of World, compared to the ideas present at sigil creation time, when using that sigil? Or does the whole sigil have to be rewritten and redesigned to reflect the new understanding? I've rather lazily sidestepped the problem entirely by leaving mine's interpretations quite vague -- most of its meaning is tacked on to study of it, rather than intrinsic to the shape in the explicit way that a sub-sigil is.

I actually don't feel like I was very limited in doing a more complex representation. Obviously not everything I know about the world can be displayed there, but I think I managed to include a surprising amount of meaning in that layout. Don't think that it is all spelled out because of the english words, those are really just elements on the fringe of the manifested part of the design, and far from the totality of the meaning. It includes a framework of the composition of the world, and of man - as well as a perspective on their natures. Also, the life cycles of all parts of creation, moral and ethical information, even points of metaphysical significance. I don't expect all of this to be totally gleaned by the viewer but certainly I think it is worth studying with a meditative approach as you suggest, because of the density the style afforded me. Or even charged or re-created to be used as an aid for visionary experience, since it was conceived that way. The design could be slightly improved but I'm quite happy with how it came out.

Wow, I'm really impressed with the submissions so far!

I love the wheel of platonic solids entwined by the serpent in @Liu 's submission. Also interesting choice of medium - I am far too finicky to deal with computer art, I'm afraid. Making the lines a bit thicker might help it look smoother, but otherwise I wouldn't know how to help.

@Onyx ' submission seems to me to read perfectly for his purpose. It practically radiates cosmic balance and eternity. I'm glad a literal yin-yang symbol was not used, but the same spirit is touched upon by your interlocking variation on the theme.

@idgo Very unconventional - Before reading your post I wouldn't necessarily consider something like this a sigil, but seeing your submission has changed my mind. I dig the simplicity, which I'm afraid is the exact opposite of the piece I made. Honestly my favorite thing about it is the 2d readings you mention - I'm able to hold both the 3d and 2d perspectives in my mind at once with pretty good success, which certainly makes it more powerful IMO.

Uploading my long awaited submission! Forgive me for the wait, friends. I put this down and lost inspiration to finish it for a while. My internet has been down so I've only just today been able to see your takes on XXI - The World. My version is quite complicated - much more so than I ever planned when I started this. But as I said, a vision came to me that I felt compelled to record. I wasn't able to reproduce all of the imagery that then appeared to me in the space I had, so I replaced several with more simple and recognizable sigils based on my best interpretation of the ones that could not be kept. It's actually quite dense in meaning; I've provided multiple shots so that you guys can pick over some of the details. Those of you who are familiar with my contributions on this site likely have a leg up in fully understanding this as some of it does arise from my personal tradition. ( @pi_rameses ? :b)

I may come back around in a few days to break this down and explain some of the more obscure parts if no one can get much from it - but I'm a little conflicted. I don't want to reduce it to pure concepts or spend too much time glorifying my own work, so I hope you guys are able to decipher this.

Awesome! And certainly, we can keep all of the submissions in this thread. Mine is nearly done - I expected to have it done sooner but I've been filling in at work for a colleague the last few days. Can't wait to share. :)

I'm in agreement. The Atheist movement has yet to produce any real positive philosophy, much less any internal technology of spiritual significance. They hastily deconstructed the old ways and left nothing in their place - consequently leading many of their followers to a sort of half-formed Nihilism.

It's easy to kill the old man, and burn his books. It's much harder to match wits with him, and write your own. I'd advise young people in this vein to view their journey as "Atheism as a path to finding God,"; I'd advise them to keep radical openmindedness close to their hearts, just in case some of the many things presupposed in their position turn out to be unfounded or worse.

I would probably keep the woman and serpent as the focal point as I quite like it and it works well with both my affinity for thelemic and draconic currents. I would however, keep the Orobous and change to the anticosmic broken orobous to symbolize that there is always higher states of conciousness and levels of attaintment to attain if one is willing beyond the universe. This works better for the zodiac as the zodiac is pretty much the orobous of this galaxy.

I'm not a big zodiac person so I would probably find my own symbols that would come to me in the process of making a full deck to replace the zodiac associations with the elementals yet preserve the links to other cards. I would probably link the woman in the universe tarot to the high priestess figure which may be untraditional but I feel conveys the the over-all theme of Nuit, Babalon, and The Scarlet Woman. To this, this would probably involve me portraying both as the femme fatale noire archetype for soley personal reasons.

I personally love this in many different ways. The anticosmic and chaos themes are great and connect well with my magical alignment (Also, the word "Transplutonic" is wonderful - where did you get that? I've never heard of it before, and I've seen a lot of words  :D )

I'm also a fan of the connection of the woman and the high priestess, but for different reasons. For me, the High Priestess is a an anointed figure that possesses gnosis of the hidden things. She is already aware of the result of the fools journey, having traveled it herself. In this card she appears as her external manifestation - as a teacher, as an oracle. Not as a restless seeker of knowledge but as a restful librarian of it; she is favored by the moon, as the embodiment of the receptive wisdom of the divine feminine principle. I think we can see her in several cards - she has a distant connection to the Chariot - and of course she is related strongly to the Temperance card, which represents her method. In the Moon card we meet her again, but because of the true sight we acquired in XII, we can now see her full aspect in her god-body. In the World, we are the high priestess in the state of total transcendence and vacuity, being equal to the infinite vitality of the All. Now she is something of an Anti-cosmic Creator.

I won't be illustrating this as I lack the satisfactory skills but I did want to make my thoughts known.

No worries, that's not necessary. Remember, this isn't OS County Fair - Custom Tarot Cards. The main intention was to keep the submissions fairly simple so it isn't too much of a commitment to play along. The idea was to represent the same energy or idea as the World card in a compact way.

Directly after I posted this thread I had something of a vision which seemed to be inspired by it. I've been drawing it out but it is a little more complex that I originally intended any of these symbols to be! I suppose I did pick a rather complex topic. If anyone has any simpler attempts, please do share! I'd also like to hear some suggestions for possible topics in the future that would be conducive to this type of community effort.

We can start a list of topics that might be fun to symbolize - a couple of thoughts:

Air? (Or a different element)
One of the planetary achetypes?

Other Religions / Re: Atheism is a Proposition
« on: September 05, 2018, 08:09:04 pm »
In Buddhism, sentient beings (be they humans, devas, brahmas, pretas, yakkis, gods, or whatever) are subject to delusion, capable of awakening, and worthy of compassion.  So yes, even the gods are subject to delusion.  Even Buddha had his moments!
It sorta levels the playing field.

Indeed! It is said that even the gods would tremble when Shakyamuni spoke of their impermanence. Of course, some traditions and certain masters do not entertain discussion of these beings even as a theological tool, viewing them as distractions from their ultimate goal. You could make arguments for different sects being Polytheistic, Monotheistic (the Tathagata), Atheistic (Materialistic Buddhism), Agnostic or non-committal or whatever else like @Kapalika alluded to.

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