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Thursatru I can't remember if I posted a thread on Thursatru or not but I recently began working back in a Thursatru paradigm again. Thursatru worship the ice giants and reject the asaer and vanir. I respect and enjoyed my experience with the aesir and vanir but my issue is I'm not sure how far I can trust Odin at the moment, and Freyja while I adore her is detrimental to my love life right now, I feel, due to the sorrow she carries.

Thursatru is a Chaos-Gnosticism current. I've began my rune meditations again, I'm still early in the alphabet but it's unlocked a lot of their mysteries for me and helped me internalize their meanings. I began with some meditations on bind runes from Gullveigarbok recently and it unlocked a lot of thursatru mysteries which is interesting, there's a specific bindrune that you ask Gullveig to reveal it's meaning to you. It represents Loki and Gullveig.

Also, the answer to why I trust Loki more than Odin which seems unintuitive is found in a Jack Sparrow quote. You can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest. Also, Loki while a trickster values brutal honesty to a degree, just in a different way. He's more direct than Odin in my unverified personal gnosis.

I combine this with the Draconian current. Hel I really enjoy working with, she's a good psychopomp to unite you with your subconcious. She's also a really comforting aspect of death, I find, rather than an intimidating one in my unverified personal gnosis. Jorgumgandr I see as an equivalent to APEP although I still need to do a direct working with Jorumgandr. My work with APEP is hugely beneficial. I haven't done Fenrir yet but there's a lot about werewolves in any LHP norse test in lycanthropy that use werewolfs to represent shadow. Gullveig, I'm not quite sure on it. Seems intimidating but clearly a mentor role. My pets did not like the energy, she seemed open to working and respecting boundaries. I'm still not quite sure what to make of it. But as a Hekate, chaos mother, ice giant type deal she's very great. Brought me knowledge of the void within in a comforting way as well as other stuff. I used galdr magic to work with her and actually sung the rune songs for the first time. A lot of people relate to Hekate because of similar archetypes but I find her much less intimidating and bossy than Hekate.

My current goal is to path-work through the whole Loki family tree as well as the runes and concentrate my sorcery on Galdr for a bit. I'm definitely gonna continue with my HGA work as even the Thursatru deities are supportive of it and it helps a lot. It's nice to have a focus again and a beneficial one that promotes growth and healing.

Anyone here ever work with the Thursatru paradigm or have any thoughts on it?

February 23, 2018, 10:22:48 pm
Re: Ever curse somebody for a petty reason before? I'm removed from the pettiness now and didn't do it as I really don't do baneful magick without good reason.

I still think baneful magic can be at the benefit of others. My reasoning is if you stop assigning negative and positive to experiences, experiences generally considered negative could be a learning and growing experience that builds character.

Saying intent is key is a pretty good idea to make it less random and more focused on the traits that could use a bit of growth rather than general person.

Of course I agree with everyone here in that you have to be careful because it's really easy to justify anything even though you probably shouldn't.

February 26, 2018, 03:02:22 pm
Re: The main goal and path of magic? @Mindmaster I mean your first speculation on HGA is exactly the popular theory on it. It's always with you. Synchronicities that lead you to where you need to go? HGA. Obtaining K&C with it is just opening up a direct line and understanding how it communicates. Union with it is not disolution of self but rather a complete strengthening of yourself to be "in tune" with your true will or whatever the hell you want to call it. Your true will isn't like some mystical destiny shit either, it's what YOU want to do once you strip off every external influence and pay attention to your own self.

HGA has nothing to do with eastern cultures which are more disolution focused. In fact, crossing the abyss the ego disolution part of Thelema that many LHP people have problems with for obvious reasons comes only after you obtain union with HGA. Rather than any philosophical opinions that differ, it's incredibly presumptous that one should do something after they acheive union with their inner most self that often guides them correctly.

HGA definitely has roots in western culture. The Daemon was originally in Ancient Greece and gave advice to the famous philosopher Socrates in Plato's Symposium. The Daemon is impersonal and communicating more in point to signs. The Greco-Magico Papyri has a ritual to get in touch with your Daemon as a familiar which is the earliest record I know of. Furthermore, in Nordic religion the soul map has a Fetch which is part of the person's soul yet different and communicates, again, through signs and synchronicity. Taking omens after a rune divination? That synchronicity is your fetch, which is with you from birth in this mythology as opposed to the Greek take. Crowley was not the first to refer to it as a Holy Guardian Angel, it was the grimoire known as The Sacred Magic of Abremalin The Mage which is written through a judeochristian yet still esoteric lens. Golden Dawn referred to it as The Genius and Crowley referred to it as the HGA as he attained it through working with Abremalin The Mage. His famous ritual for attaining it was actually never used for him but constructed as an aid to one of his students in the Abbey of Thelema that he was very impressed with. The evolution of it still continues. Luciferianism in the vein of Ford views it as "myself made perfect." Peter J. Caroll posits as false(and actually associates Aiwass with Nyarlhotep deluding Crowley) yet still instructs student to do so if they feel it's for them even though he personally doesn't believe in it. He also refers to it as Aguoides. Phil Hine has a great article on it.

" There are many speculations as to what the HGA may be, and I shall list them as I believe they all have a sense of truth and falsehood. Theories on what the HGA is generally fall into three categories: psychological processes! concepts; external entities that have an interest in the magician’s life; and entities that are somehow part of the magician in the way that shamanic totems might be. I would suggest that it is foolish to fall into one camp; using as many concepts as possible will give a more useful point of reference. If you limit yourself too much here only a certain degree of success will be possible."

"The HGA as an internal entity also includes theories of it being in some way connected with the divine manifest within humanity. One magical friend put forward a reasonable theory that connects the HGA with the Goddess Kundalini, as an ever watching, consuming flame that drives and is driven by our experience of the world."

The last quote is incredibly interesting as it could connect it to LHP ideas such as the black flame of set or the conciousness implanted into humanity by Odin that is meant to help us strengthen ourselves to godhood.

Crowley was definitely a flawed human being, and you'll get no argument from me there. At all. However, to remain consistent with my own post: if I complain about it being presumptious for Crowley to know what someone should do after finding their HGA then it's equally presumptious for us to judge Crowley's actions after his HGA.

This kind of boils down to the whole do what that wilt in Thelema but also an important tenent in LHP, individualism, as well as the general "know thyself" in occultism in general. Basically, who the fuck are we to judge another person for their actions especially if they're on a spiritual path. Antinomianism falls in to line with that school of thought to which is another trademark of LHP. If you can truly know yourself intimately then no one else's opinions matter.

February 28, 2018, 03:42:09 am
Re: An old dream and possible meanings... Crone is usually associated with goddesses such as Hekate or Gullveing in one of their 3 forms. I believe Crone is also associate with the Wiccan version of feminine divine/mother archetype. Furthermore, Crone is often associated with death. The mother with birth and maiden with beauty which is the other two forms.

Triple Goddess archetypes often take the role of a supernatural mentor to witches as well as the protectors of them.

February 28, 2018, 03:55:02 am
Re: Lore on Lilith (Demon Goddess/Wife of Satan) @pi_rameses  Well, fuck me. I just mentioned Symposium for in another thread 5 minutes ago after learning the title of it(I knew of it) then I visit this thread and see your post for the first time.
February 28, 2018, 04:00:18 am
Re: Discussion on Thelema: RHP or LHP? As a Thelemite who's chaos magic side can't resist blasphemy and heresy.

Crowley's philsophy that informed thelema is mostly his own cribbed of a post-modern mix of former religions and therefore did not effectively get rid of the weaning of such religions mainly due to his partiality to daoism but also his golden dawn training.

That said, his practices are not really his and there's all rituals that have been around forever or at least updatings of old aeon rituals to be more up to date. David Shoemaker does a great job updating this even formula, I really ike his change to the recitation of the Lux formula. All there formulas are proven to work and are pretty reliable. I don't doubt their effectiveness or applicability on either path.

I still fully accept the Book of the Law fully as it was channeled and written but disagree with a lot of Crowley's own interpreations. His whole thing about man his right to ___ as he will and not interfering with it basically contradicts slave shall serve. It have an amendum that it applies to people who are self actualized. His commentary is useful in some regards but you can see his bias really creep in.

As for middle vs LHP and all that. I'm very "middle" path in my practices in that I'll work with a bit of everything. I lean LHP but that doesn't mean I won't fucking use LBRP or communicate with Enochian Angels and all. Rituals are just tools and can be used for either goal. That said I still have a fully LHP philosophy. I'm an existentialism and absurdist, on a bad day a nihilist, so I don't really have RHP ethics unless you want to list non-duality was a RHP ethic because I use that paradigm a lot. It actually helps me a lot in my choice of major and career. My answer and advice would be you're you, and your path is yours, we can't tell you what it is. You must walk it and find out for yourself.

February 28, 2018, 04:32:09 am
Would anyone want to work on Runes with me? I'm trying to commit to this system fully honestly. It'd be nice to have people to work through it to keep me motivated to keep up with you as well as discuss with. I could totally send you my PDF collection on runes for you to look at.

I'm probably half way through committing them to memory intellctually but I'm only on the 5th rune for meditations to internalize them and emotionally understand them. Trying to work galdr(rune song magic) as well now after I've been practicing reading runes in both words and meaning. I like to spell names out in runes and figure out what it says about something, it can be startingly accurate description when it comes to stuff like deities, I actually used Runes to choose my magical name as the formula for King Mob is extremely useful right now and it's proven to have effect.

So my work is mainly meditations to understand the symbols of it, and reading the books to aid in meditation, and occasional spellwork through galdr. I'll also meditate on bind runes and I'm really learning how to incorporate them in modern ritual and understand how to use them to penetrate various mysteries.

February 28, 2018, 04:40:55 am
Re: Discussion on Thelema: RHP or LHP? I'm going to give a fuller reply when it's not so late, @Frater Sisyphus  but I want to say while Book of the Law does have some stuff that's incredibly hard to make a subjective rather than objective interpretation of, I'd argue that it also functions as a sort of magical rorshach test in which the reader forms their own opinions on it thus emphasizing individualism. I've seen people interpret to take do what thou wilt mean to put authority in yourself or higher self first including before book of the law which is an interesting take.

Reminds me of the pirates code in Pirates of the Carribean. "They're more like guidlines than rules."

February 28, 2018, 05:22:47 am
Re: The main goal and path of magic? No offense meant but I find judging someone solely by their actions completely useless and asking if someone else is someone you want to be is a horrible measure to judge anything. For one, wanting to be anyone else than yourself is a waste of the person you are.

Secondly, plenty of bad people with good ideas. Ghandi was a racist prick who sexually took advantage of his followers. Should I eschew nonvoilent protest because of this? Neitzsche never became the Ubermensch he so badly wanted in the world but should I ignore his logical arguments of which he is one of the most accomplished men in the field because of this? I mean, Plato was a lot more respectable of a person but his work and philosophy is terrible due to it's antiquity. It's blinded by superstitions of BC times. 

Furthermore, assigning the concept of harm is arbirtray. You have 5 apples, I steal 3 apples. I hurt your feelings, wronged you and did something considered ethically wrong. But have you not learned to keep a close eye on your apples cause people can be dicks? It's a simple example but I'm esentially talking about the functionalism theory in sociology but a lot of people in the occult try to remove moral judgement from things so it's compatible.

IMO, when it comes to feeling "harmed" or "wronged", it's typically someone's false ego talking and refusing to acknowledge their own part and what they can learn from it or the good in something.  When I saw false ego, I don't mean the good ego, I mean the base desires.

And if you're referrring to the observer or sammadhi in eastern path, HGA is a completely different expeirence that's similar but a lot stronger. I suppose the concept of dissolution depends on which eastern path you're talking about. Buddha was quite adamant about detachment which shuns the material world which shows an inclination towards dissolution and a rejection wordly things, in a rather extreme way. It's not so much about effiecency as it's a total refusal to play the game. Buddhism didn't really become more along the lines of how you're describing it until it become mixed with Daoism for political and geographic reasons as far as I know. I know a lot of Buddha's practical advice such as the dhammaparda were more words of wisdom for common folk and not representative of the path of those who followed him.

I'm also not quite sure why you say Crowley didn't absorb it? If we take behavior out of it, what indicates that he didn't absorb it? His diaries show a extremely consistent practice with all of the systems absorbed. Also, who are you to understand his actions and their effects? I'm honestly not meaning it in a smart way, just saying that shit isn't black and white and trying to reduce it so while trying to understand something as complex as the human brain, let alone the world simultaneously, is a futile task that creates no objective truth.

I'm gonna put it this way. Jim Jones started a cult, he grew it incredibly huge. It ended with the massacre of what? A thousand people? This is a bad person. But wait a second. He was practically solely responsible for desegration in his hometown and eventually state. When he started to get famous, and not for bad reasons according to the public, he had a pretty strong involvment in certain politics and progressed stuff. However, he's still a mass murderer, drug addict, and rapist. Horrible person but progressed society and did good things. It's really easy to demonize a human completely and say "he's a sociopath" or "he's evil" but it's wrong. Like, we haven't even solved the nature vs nurture debate and psychology is a relatively new science still and we know a lot now but it's always changing, there's always updates to the DSM. He did good stuff, he did bad stuff, we can't really describe the reasoning of another human being. But we can say humans in general do good things for good reasons, bad things for bad reasons, bad things for good reasons, and good things for bad reason. Most probably do all of these over their lifetime but we will ever be able to say which action is which.

To demonize a person, is to create an "us vs them" mentality that makes you think you're incapable of anything like that. And in daily life, you probably are yet capable of some kind of bad stuff. Say society collapsed, every single one of us would do stuff we considered evil to survive. But here's the thing, in that scenario: none of it would be evil. It would become a new social normal, and it would cause pain, but there would be no survival of the human race without it. And you can't blame a person for trying to survive. It's built into every biological organism. You're hurt when you get the flu, but those germs are just trying to survive and they increase the immune system.

I also realize what I'm doing is justifying stuff to be good, you can do that about anything. You can also justify anything to be bad. Which means all this is just useless subjective speculation, and it's impossible to know what things *really* are. Which makes judging each other pretty pointless squable. For all we know, Crowley achieved what he wanted in his lifetime. He's pretty accomplished. He harmed people around him, sure, and most would agree he's not a "good" person but LHP adherents should not agree with herd mentality just because it's the conventional notion. I don't know, I don't really care about subjective ethics. I just want to know if they're accomplished in their field and do good work. The feelings of long dead people are useless to me and don't even exist anymore, at least in the material world. Sure, the french revolution caused a lot grief and pain but that's a hundred years ago and my country never would have been founded if the french revolution hadn't inspired the founding fathers of America. I therefore wouldn't be able to be in this country, or this state, where I have great opportunities. From where I'm standing, that's pretty good to me and those people haven't mattered for hundreds of years.

I'd also say in the case of Crowley, a lot of work he published and taught came way before him sometimes by hundreds and hundred of years. That's be like denouncing Marxism because of Stalinism. Stalin was incredibly bad and there is a link and some similarities but Marxism is a completely different philosophy with an end goal, there's criticisms of it but they're mostly different criticisms than stalinism. If you want to simplify it to redistributing resources than that'd be like judging native american tribes and ancient egyptian societies because of Stalin since they collected their resources way before it and it's a builing black of that philosophy in a way but it's completely different.

One last remark one asking yourself if you want to be like someone to learn from them. Robin Williams was an amazing comedian who left a legacy, he's a great place to learn from. I don't want to be a person who kills myself, however. I'd love to learn guitar from Jimmi Hendrix but I don't want to be a drug addict. David Bowie was probably one of the greatest stage performers and creative artist who was able to do film as well as music but I don't think androgyny and cocaine is my bag but holy shit, I'd love to learn how to perform like him.

If we're talking about harm to self, what is harm to self? GG Allin regularaly cut himself, ate his shit, and broke bottles over his head on stage yet it brought him success. Iggy Pop is a much less extreme example who can be considred a good person unlike GG Allin.

This whole rant isn't so much a defense of Crowley as it's an existentialist rant from me because there is nothing in the universe is apparant. If it's apparant, you haven't examined it from enough angles, or thought long enough, and you're accepting something at face value in some way. I highly recommend studying conventional philosophy in various branches to anyone on a occult path as it helps to cut a lot our own bullshit out which is a theme of any occult path, it just digs a lot deeper and faster.

February 28, 2018, 07:14:47 am
Re: Would anyone want to work on Runes with me? @pi_rameses Awesome! I'm glad to hear it. I'll send you the PDFs I have tonight or tomorrow.

I'm currently meditating on each rune for 3 days as framework and find it very useful but approach it however you find best.

Interesting patterns really emerge when meditating. For example the first three lets really fit in with Nordic creation lore. Fehu- materialism, gold, cattle I see it was the first spark of earth. Uruz is manifestation, the Ox it refers to is the one that licked the ice cube to form, uh it was the first giant or mant can't recall and Thurisaz relates to the ice-giants as well as thor's hammer and can be seen as death  thus creatin the Nordic form as I-A-O for example.

March 01, 2018, 03:06:03 am